Those are great numbers! 8-10 pumps with equal pumping effort for each pump sounds like a great deal. I certainly want one.
Quote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:18:09 PMThose are great numbers! 8-10 pumps with equal pumping effort for each pump sounds like a great deal. I certainly want one.I think I'll stick with my 362. The renamed Butterfly just isn't in the same league.
Quote from: Keepingitsimple on February 06, 2022, 12:24:19 PMQuote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:18:09 PMThose are great numbers! 8-10 pumps with equal pumping effort for each pump sounds like a great deal. I certainly want one.I think I'll stick with my 362. The renamed Butterfly just isn't in the same league.That's cool, I didn't ask for your thoughts in regards to the 362. Since you brought it up I have to say that the DF MKII posts better numbers than the 362 I already own. The DF MKII will be easier to pump to any number of pumps, unlike the 362 which is a bear for pumps seven and eight. Nice German Beech stock, metal breech with dovetails, threaded muzzle, floating barrel, and an OEM moderator make it for a much better deal than a c362, to me anyway, since we are talking about opinions here.
Quote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:33:19 PMQuote from: Keepingitsimple on February 06, 2022, 12:24:19 PMQuote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:18:09 PMThose are great numbers! 8-10 pumps with equal pumping effort for each pump sounds like a great deal. I certainly want one.I think I'll stick with my 362. The renamed Butterfly just isn't in the same league.That's cool, I didn't ask for your thoughts in regards to the 362. Since you brought it up I have to say that the DF MKII posts better numbers than the 362 I already own. The DF MKII will be easier to pump to any number of pumps, unlike the 362 which is a bear for pumps seven and eight. Nice German Beech stock, metal breech with dovetails, threaded muzzle, floating barrel, and an OEM moderator make it for a much better deal than a c362, to me anyway, since we are talking about opinions here.Sorry to ruffle your feathers.Better numbers?I plugged the 10 pump figure of the Butterfly ... er ah ... Dragonfly II, I mean...(heh),...using the 18.13's into my calculator and got 14.5 fpe.From hardairmag:The average across 5 shots was 14.6 Ft/Lbs (using Crosman 19 gr)https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/crosman-362-muzzle-energy-15-ft-lbs-for-a-99-gun/362 gets slightly more fpe with a slightly heavier pellet at 8 pumps rather than 10. Less pumps, more power.The 362 gets harder to pump at pumps 7 and 8? I hadn't noticed.Yes sir, the butterfly does have its bells and whistles. I can't argue with that at all. It sure is a pretty rifle.That isn't quite in the same league as the 362.Gaylord at PA should have the accuracy part of his review of the butterfly out next week. PA is pushing the butterfly hard for potential buyers.
Quote from: Keepingitsimple on February 06, 2022, 12:54:17 PMQuote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:33:19 PMQuote from: Keepingitsimple on February 06, 2022, 12:24:19 PMQuote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:18:09 PMThose are great numbers! 8-10 pumps with equal pumping effort for each pump sounds like a great deal. I certainly want one.I think I'll stick with my 362. The renamed Butterfly just isn't in the same league.That's cool, I didn't ask for your thoughts in regards to the 362. Since you brought it up I have to say that the DF MKII posts better numbers than the 362 I already own. The DF MKII will be easier to pump to any number of pumps, unlike the 362 which is a bear for pumps seven and eight. Nice German Beech stock, metal breech with dovetails, threaded muzzle, floating barrel, and an OEM moderator make it for a much better deal than a c362, to me anyway, since we are talking about opinions here.Sorry to ruffle your feathers.Better numbers?I plugged the 10 pump figure of the Butterfly ... er ah ... Dragonfly II, I mean...(heh),...using the 18.13's into my calculator and got 14.5 fpe.From hardairmag:The average across 5 shots was 14.6 Ft/Lbs (using Crosman 19 gr)https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/crosman-362-muzzle-energy-15-ft-lbs-for-a-99-gun/362 gets slightly more fpe with a slightly heavier pellet at 8 pumps rather than 10. Less pumps, more power.The 362 gets harder to pump at pumps 7 and 8? I hadn't noticed.Yes sir, the butterfly does have its bells and whistles. I can't argue with that at all. It sure is a pretty rifle.That isn't quite in the same league as the 362.Gaylord at PA should have the accuracy part of his review of the butterfly out next week. PA is pushing the butterfly hard for potential buyers.My 362 does not produce 14+ FPE. Based on the numbers you posted they are in exactly the same league, except the 362 comes with a plastic breech like a toy. From your comments it sounds like you don't understand how the pumping mechanism works on the DF MKII. Each pump has the same resistance when pumping the DF MKII, and if you can't tell the difference between pump one and pump eight on a 362 you must be competing in strong man competitions. Anyway, the only person with ruffled feathers is you, elsewise why insult an air rifle you don't even own? It's pretty childish if you ask me, and apparently you are.
Quote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 01:15:09 PMQuote from: Keepingitsimple on February 06, 2022, 12:54:17 PMQuote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:33:19 PMQuote from: Keepingitsimple on February 06, 2022, 12:24:19 PMQuote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 12:18:09 PMThose are great numbers! 8-10 pumps with equal pumping effort for each pump sounds like a great deal. I certainly want one.I think I'll stick with my 362. The renamed Butterfly just isn't in the same league.That's cool, I didn't ask for your thoughts in regards to the 362. Since you brought it up I have to say that the DF MKII posts better numbers than the 362 I already own. The DF MKII will be easier to pump to any number of pumps, unlike the 362 which is a bear for pumps seven and eight. Nice German Beech stock, metal breech with dovetails, threaded muzzle, floating barrel, and an OEM moderator make it for a much better deal than a c362, to me anyway, since we are talking about opinions here.Sorry to ruffle your feathers.Better numbers?I plugged the 10 pump figure of the Butterfly ... er ah ... Dragonfly II, I mean...(heh),...using the 18.13's into my calculator and got 14.5 fpe.From hardairmag:The average across 5 shots was 14.6 Ft/Lbs (using Crosman 19 gr)https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/crosman-362-muzzle-energy-15-ft-lbs-for-a-99-gun/362 gets slightly more fpe with a slightly heavier pellet at 8 pumps rather than 10. Less pumps, more power.The 362 gets harder to pump at pumps 7 and 8? I hadn't noticed.Yes sir, the butterfly does have its bells and whistles. I can't argue with that at all. It sure is a pretty rifle.That isn't quite in the same league as the 362.Gaylord at PA should have the accuracy part of his review of the butterfly out next week. PA is pushing the butterfly hard for potential buyers.My 362 does not produce 14+ FPE. Based on the numbers you posted they are in exactly the same league, except the 362 comes with a plastic breech like a toy. From your comments it sounds like you don't understand how the pumping mechanism works on the DF MKII. Each pump has the same resistance when pumping the DF MKII, and if you can't tell the difference between pump one and pump eight on a 362 you must be competing in strong man competitions. Anyway, the only person with ruffled feathers is you, elsewise why insult an air rifle you don't even own? It's pretty childish if you ask me, and apparently you are.Your 362 doesn't produce 14.5 lbs? Sorry to hear that. Are you using the 2240 steel breech OEM short probe?It's my understanding the short probe while using the steel breech loses some fps.It's also my understanding that not only hardairmag is getting higher numbers w/ theirs than you're getting and several 362 owners at GTA are reporting higher numbers too. Past 16 fpe for some folks.Heck, even with 14 gr pellets the butterfly can only do 652 fps at 15 pumps and the 362 can do 700 fps at 10 pumps. That's good for 15.5 fpe from the 362.But, your 362 is not able to do that? Hmmm,...maybe your 362 actually is in the same league as the butterfly. Thankfully, mine and others 362 is not.
You're pretty funny. I take it you didn't even read the article. Mr. Gaylord is actually getting increasing velocities as he continues to test... Still, we are talking about a difference of 0.1 FPE with the same weight pellets, that would put them exactly in the same league. Of course the FPE is going to increase when going up to heavier pellets, this is a phenomenon found in many applications, just not the DF MKII, yet.I've never seen someone so driven to insult things they don't even own. Not only are you slamming a product you've never even seen, but you are then going on to insult my rifle. I get it, you're just a bully and you don't have any other way of communicating. Apparently I'm not allowed to express my opinion about a rifle in a thread dedicated to that rifle, at least not without some bully coming around to tell me how he feels as well. Your entitlement is astounding.
Quote from: Spacebus on February 06, 2022, 05:42:18 PMYou're pretty funny. I take it you didn't even read the article. Mr. Gaylord is actually getting increasing velocities as he continues to test... Still, we are talking about a difference of 0.1 FPE with the same weight pellets, that would put them exactly in the same league. Of course the FPE is going to increase when going up to heavier pellets, this is a phenomenon found in many applications, just not the DF MKII, yet.I've never seen someone so driven to insult things they don't even own. Not only are you slamming a product you've never even seen, but you are then going on to insult my rifle. I get it, you're just a bully and you don't have any other way of communicating. Apparently I'm not allowed to express my opinion about a rifle in a thread dedicated to that rifle, at least not without some bully coming around to tell me how he feels as well. Your entitlement is astounding.And yet I've been posting excerpts from the article @ https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/02/seneca-dragonfly-mark-2-multi-pump-rifle-part-two/...to poke holes in your logic, left and right. Here ... I'll do it again:JSB Exact Jumbo HeavyFirst up are JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets. Weighing 18.13-grains these represent the heavy side of a good medium weight pellet. I will test them with 3 through 15 pumps.Pumps .Velocity3 ..4284 ..4765 ..5186 ..5537 ..5648 ..5839 ..58910 60211 60112 61713 60514 61715 618--Yeah, WoW! Increasing velocities....of 16 fps for the last 5 pumps.LOLWant me to do it again? Check it out:RWS MeisterklugelnSince I now had a good handle on the pump limits, I tested the 14-grain RWS Meisterkugeln with 3, 8 and 15 pump strokes.Pumps Velocity3 5188 61115. 653--WoW! Increasing velocities again of a whopping 42 fps for the last 7 pumps. Astounding power! -sarc-Heck, my flat topped legos are at least good for 10 fps per pump after the initial 10 pumps.The overpriced and underpowered butterfly can't even manage that it seems. Your rifle, you say? The same rifle that hasn't come out yet? The same rifle that won't be ready to be shipped until May? That rifle is yours?How can it be yours when it doesn't actually exist? Until May.
The GTA used to be a nice place to come and share stuff about airguns, then Spacebus showed up, got his feathers all ruffled (for no reason), and started insulting everyone. This isn't the first time.
Wow, you must work for Crosman to have this much to say about another brands MSP! Do you need a special pillow for all of your butt pain? You literally insulted my c362 and said it's not in the same league as the rest of them, for some reason. I'm not really sure what you stand to gain by any of this. I guess your copy paste skills are good, but your reading comprehension is apparently terrible. Then you go on to compare a modified rifle against a factory rifle, and I know your flat top 13xx cost a lot more than a factory DF MKII. Again, the DF MKII is within 0.1 FPE of the c362 with the same weight pellets, and the DF MKII was only picking up velocity over time. That's not something I can say about my c362. I'm going to own both and not really care about which one is "better." Apparently that's not an option for you and instead you have to go and slam a rifle that you don't even plan on owning. What a joke!
Dragonfly MK2 = $199.99Crosman C362 = $89.99Not even a fair comparison IMO... just sayin.BTW, I will give the DFMK2 a fair shake when it becomes available. I have some really good SPA guns.I will say this though... I'm not pumping a gun 7 additional times to gain less than 50 fps.Pumps Velocity3 5188 61115. 653
Quote from: Spacebus on February 07, 2022, 05:27:34 PMWow, you must work for Crosman to have this much to say about another brands MSP! Do you need a special pillow for all of your butt pain? You literally insulted my c362 and said it's not in the same league as the rest of them, for some reason. I'm not really sure what you stand to gain by any of this. I guess your copy paste skills are good, but your reading comprehension is apparently terrible. Then you go on to compare a modified rifle against a factory rifle, and I know your flat top 13xx cost a lot more than a factory DF MKII. Again, the DF MKII is within 0.1 FPE of the c362 with the same weight pellets, and the DF MKII was only picking up velocity over time. That's not something I can say about my c362. I'm going to own both and not really care about which one is "better." Apparently that's not an option for you and instead you have to go and slam a rifle that you don't even plan on owning. What a joke!It's interesting how you're accusing me of working for Crosman while pushing an overpriced, underpowered rifle from Asia.Seems to me Air Venturi / Seneca really, really, really, wants people to pre-order this lemon.Makes a person wonder why, y'know? Your last post was the 2nd, possibly the 3rd one you've made to me that contains fatuous slander. Why? Because I disagreed with you? And, posted linked facts to support my position?What was it you accused me of? Childishness?M'kay. I'm out. Have fun with ..."your"... rifle that will likely not be delivered to you. Or, anyone else.Why? Well, we could chat about supply chain issues.... Oh wait, we can't talk about that here. Good thing for Air Venturi, huh? Bye.
LOL! My rifle is a c362! Look at my signature. You found it necessary to bring up the c362 when I mentioned how excited I was for the DF MKII after seeing the numbers. You brought up the comparison, and then I listed the things I like. You are like a child that knocks down a bees nest and then cries when he gets stung. I didn't solicit your opinion to start, yet you found it necessary to try and force yours on me.
Quote from: Spacebus on February 07, 2022, 06:43:35 PMLOL! My rifle is a c362! Look at my signature. You found it necessary to bring up the c362 when I mentioned how excited I was for the DF MKII after seeing the numbers. You brought up the comparison, and then I listed the things I like. You are like a child that knocks down a bees nest and then cries when he gets stung. I didn't solicit your opinion to start, yet you found it necessary to try and force yours on me.After posting the actual numbers of what the Seneca Butterfly is capable of at the top of the page, I said I'd stick with my 362 in a later post. I fail to see how that's the least bit offensive.Have you checked PA's blog? Gaylord didn't even report on the butterfly's 10 yard accuracy. He's off on another project just as I predicted he would if the butterfly accuracy test went south.
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