At what velocity do hollow points stop being accurate?

[Smaug2]

I'm finding that hollow point pellets in .177 and .22 don't generally work well with my PCPs. the only Exception so far has been H&N Baracuda Hunters.

What velocity have you found that generally good HP pellets stop holding their accuracy? Is it a high enough velocity for them to expand? (if not, there's no point in using HPs...)

[TheBigLebowski]

The accuracy could be an issue related to skirt expansion rather than velocity.

I've found that crossman 14.3 Grain hollowpoints have excellent accuracy when fired at 900+ fps from a Trail Np Xl Springer.
Those same pellets tend to perform poorly when fired from an airforce condor at similar velocity.

The pellets that perform well from Pcp rifles seem to be on the softer side, letting the skirt expand at lower pressures to engage the rifling. The accuracy sweet spot is almost always in the 8-900 region for every shuttlecock style pellet I've fired from a pcp rifle.

[Mr Fluffy Tail]

i think its more about the weight distribution than the shape ... a hollow point has a tiny bit of weight removed right at the critical front center where it needs to be to aid stability of a projectile ... so 'speed' i dunno, depends on the particular barrel i'd say ..

[Raider03]

I'm finding that hollow point pellets in .177 and .22 don't generally work well with my PCPs. the only Exception so far has been H&N Baracuda Hunters.

What velocity have you found that generally good HP pellets stop holding their accuracy? Is it a high enough velocity for them to expand? (if not, there's no point in using HPs...)

What airguns showing this issue, someone else may have info specific to those airguns.

[chutesnreloads]

Being new here my views may not count for much. However, I have a lot of experience killing small critters (specifically squirrels) with pellets.
I'm new to the PCP game but been shooting squirrels with pellets going on 20 years now. In my experience NONE of the hollow point pellets expand
with even "magnum" spring piston velocities. They just don't. They may expand well in some ballistic gel or clay or what have you but in critters...
they just don't. I've lost count of the pellets recovered from dead squirrels and the only deformation I've seen was from hitting bone which will deform any soft lead but hollow points mushrooming.....no. In my experience with practical hunting distances with air guns (30 yards or less) number one priority is shot placement.  Without proper shot placement everything else is academic. They may not perform well a longer distance, but if your gun will shoot the wadcutter style pellet accurately, they can't be beat at 30 yards or less for quick killing efficiency. The wide metplat of the wadcutter need not expand and will cut that size hole through the depth of their penetration. For me the jury is still out on hollow point performance with a PCP. Still looking for one that shoots accurately enough to use. Again, shot placement trumps everything else.

[null]

It's funny with wadcutters... I've actually had good luck with squirrels, rats, and chipmunks. Especially the RWS Hobbys in 7gr .22cal.

I actually blew up a chipmunk from 25 yards with my Kratos at full power using one of those RWS Hobby pellets.

[wolverine]

I have recovered pellets from rabbits, squirrels, and raccoons.  I've inspected them all and none of them have given me consistent results.  Terminators, destroyers, polymags, crow magnums, hunters, hunter extremes and hades all expanded, but not every time.  I don't think there's enough meat on small game to expand the hollow points.

[Ribbonstone]

Leaving slugs out of the discussion….just pellets.

Like any other pellet, some times the rifle/barrel doesn’t shoot them well at any speed.  Even if it likes them, there usually is at least a little minus from whatever the best shooting pellet does.

Generally, past a certain speed, the ones that did soot well, shoot less well…..but speed  at impact is what drives the HP to work as a HP….so you kind of balance between accurate enough and fast enough to work well on impact.

Really is impact speed...which has to do with BC...not all HP pellets have a great BC.

They have made a lot of hollow point pellets, certainly haven’t tried them all.

[crazyhorse1]

For me my HP's were not accurate into the wind. They would spiral off target. Velocity did not seem to matter.

[Smaug2]

I'm finding that hollow point pellets in .177 and .22 don't generally work well with my PCPs. the only Exception so far has been H&N Baracuda Hunters.

What velocity have you found that generally good HP pellets stop holding their accuracy? Is it a high enough velocity for them to expand? (if not, there's no point in using HPs...)

What airguns showing this issue, someone else may have info specific to those airguns.

Well, for example my two PCPs are the Air Arms S510 in .22 and the Brocock Compatto in .177. They both happen to be power adjustable. The S510 can go all the way down around 500 fps. The Compatto only has three settings and the low one is still pretty hot. (13 FPE)

I found the S510 will shoot just about ANY pellet accurately at the lower power levels, but as I go up, it only likes domes.

Yes, I found that CPHPs shoot accurately in just about anything, problem is that the alloy is so hard they don't expand; no "point" in using a HP, then. They're just like the domes, but less aerodynamic.

[Kernbigo]

just shot a .200 center 2 center group at 50 yrds with crosman premiere hollow points 14.3 gr. , not accurate right , fx crown 22

[Ribbonstone]

If he rifle shoots the Crosman HP’s, then likely would shoot the non-HP versions as well.  Have two like that, doesn’t really care if it is the HP version or not….usualy can find the HP version locally, so those two shoot them quite often.

The little dent in the hard alloy pellet just doesn’t promote real expansion….short of shooting into some really dense media.

[anti-squirrel]

JSB Ultra Shocks do disturbingly well in my Leshiy with a .22 350mm barrel at 930 FPS- every bit as accurate as the other "most accurate" pellet, the EdGun domes (made my JSB).

i think its more about the weight distribution than the shape ... a hollow point has a tiny bit of weight removed right at the critical front center where it needs to be to aid stability of a projectile ... so 'speed' i dunno, depends on the particular barrel i'd say ..

I concur- in my experiences, it ain't the velocity, it's the barrel. 

[johnbrown]

I shoot CPHP .177 and .22 about 80-90% of the time at a 60-70 yard range.

With the Nova Liberty, the .177 CPHP were spiraling towards the end of the trajectory at velocities under 830-850 FPS.
After increasing the velocity to around 880-900 FPS the pellets were flying well (no spiraling) at the same range.

With the Benjamin Akela .22 and CPHP I noticed the same spiraling effect at velocities under 800-820.
I increased velocity again and they seem to be shooting well (without spiraling) above 840 FPS.

So depending on the barrel, velocity and range you may get spiraling.
The solution is to increase velocity until the spiraling disappears.

[AlanMcD]

I have a .22 Daystate Air Ranger that shoots Polymags and Hades almost as well as it shoots JSB/AA 18 grain and 15.9 grain pellets.  The best of the bunch is the AA 15.9, but everything else is pretty close.  And that is shooting over 900 fps out to 65 yards . . .

So I don't really know the answer to your question, but think it is more about the specific pellet that the gun likes rather than the speed for the type of pellet.

[Cableaddict]

I have recovered pellets from rabbits, squirrels, and raccoons.  I've inspected them all and none of them have given me consistent results.  Terminators, destroyers, polymags, crow magnums, hunters, hunter extremes and hades all expanded, but not every time.  I don't think there's enough meat on small game to expand the hollow points.

Maybe try filling them with silicone?

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=193492.0


I haven't had time to try this myself, but there are a number of articles & videos online that claim it helps with expansion.
It will certainly also increaseBC, aiding slightly in accuracy.
And it should certainly work with pellets as well as it does with slugs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the OP's main question: 

Yes, there will be a small velocity window within which any projectile will be most accurate, though I think this is more critical with slugs. Regardless, it's different for every weight.
All you can do is experiment with your own gear. 

Also:
Many HP's by their design are less accurate than other shapes, though some are very good.  It depend a lot of the shape of the meplat / size of the hole,  and whether it's round or a cross.  Probably other factors as well.

--------------------

One thing you might also consider, regarding pellet accuracy in general, is making sure your rifle is properly tuned.
If you are using more air than needed,  (which is a common thing)  then you'll have more turbulence than needed as the pellet leaves the barrel. -  And that makes accuracy worse, especially with pellets.  (Vs slugs, which are spin-stabilized.)

If you don't already have one,   buy a cheap chrono,   and learn how to dial-in your psi vs hammer spring, for a given pellet weight.  You might get a very nice improvement. (And increased shot count, to boot.)

[nervoustrigger]

My experience across dozens of .177 and .22 rifles and a small number of .25 rifles, rare indeed is the hollow point sufficiently accurate for pest control past 25 yards.  Rarer still is the one that actually expands.

Crosman hollow points are hollow points in name only.  Functionally they are domes.

H&N Crow Magnums in .22 have been atrocious in every rifle I've ever tried.  Fast or slow, choked or unchoked barrel.  Might expand but it doesn't matter because they never hit the same place twice. 

Crosman Destroyers in .22 were good at destroying any hope of hitting the target.

The JSB Ultra Shocks in .177 grouped adequately in one of my rifles for small game & pest control out to 40 yards.  By adequately I mean confident brain shots on gray squirrels.  But despite leaving the muzzle at 900fps, they don't expand.

Likewise, the RWS Super-H-Points in .22 have been accurate enough in a few rifles, but also do not expand.

The one pellet I've tried that was both accurate and capable of expanding is from the brand I would least expect.  Daisy.  Their .22 hollow points at 30 yards from a LW-barreled rifle:



And an example recovered from a gray squirrel shot at the same distance:

[anti-squirrel]

I'm a fan of those Daisy HPs but they're hard to find locally.  A hardware store on the way to our property carries them occasionally, so I buy a tin every so often.

My experience with the JSB (and very similar Skenco) Ultra Shocks is the same as Jason's- they don't expand.  But they do behave less like a pellet given the very wide waist; I'm sure this contributes to their accuracy.

The harder alloy of the Crosman and H&N HPs means barrels are more picky/sensitive to velocity.  The H&Ns do not like going over 780 FPS in my Leshiy, though they work well and make a lot of "meatslap" noise up to that.  The Crosmans work good in my bone-stock untuned Fortitude out to 70 yards.  IIRC, it's shooting 770-ish.

[Pelletjunkie]

I try to shoot Crow Magnums out of every gun I buy or build. I do it because over the 30 years that I’ve shot them, they are an effective, safe short range pellet. They run out of juice very quick. My dad is currently shooting them out of a BSA Ultra SE .177 around 800fps. My bottled 2240 with a 14”LW barrel will shoot them great until 30 yards. Then they go crazy. None of my .25’s have ever shot them. My Webley Vulcan springer .177 and PP700 .177 will shoot them also. There is a noticeable difference in the sound of impact when using them but as far as expansion goes, that’s not happening. It’s a pellet. A bullet expands because it follows the rules of physics. Remember an object in motion will remain in motion until acted upon? A bullet has a dense rear section that continues to drive forward after the tip strikes something. With a pellet, it has a waist. The least dense part of the whole pellet. It can’t keep driving forward to create expansion. Unless you shoot a steel plate that abruptly stops everything.

[Smaug2]

I try to shoot Crow Magnums out of every gun I buy or build. I do it because over the 30 years that I’ve shot them, they are an effective, safe short range pellet. They run out of juice very quick. My dad is currently shooting them out of a BSA Ultra SE .177 around 800fps. My bottled 2240 with a 14”LW barrel will shoot them great until 30 yards. Then they go crazy. None of my .25’s have ever shot them. My Webley Vulcan springer .177 and PP700 .177 will shoot them also. There is a noticeable difference in the sound of impact when using them but as far as expansion goes, that’s not happening. It’s a pellet. A bullet expands because it follows the rules of physics. Remember an object in motion will remain in motion until acted upon? A bullet has a dense rear section that continues to drive forward after the tip strikes something. With a pellet, it has a waist. The least dense part of the whole pellet. It can’t keep driving forward to create expansion. Unless you shoot a steel plate that abruptly stops everything.

You're wrong about pellets not expanding. I've shot many squirrels with .177 H&N Baracuda Hunter at about 18 FPE. When I'm able to recover the pellets, they're about .22 cal.

.177 H&N Terminator @ 15 FPE also expand, but not as dramatically as the above.

They won't all expand equally and a lot depends on where you hit, but most of them do expand. (Crosman Premier Hollow Point don't expand)