Crossman 101 I Picked Up This Morning

[DWTrull]

"Model 101 pneumatic pump, single shot .22 caliber, die cast receiver with “premeir” logo made iin 1924
Model 101 w/straight logo: pat. Oct. 28, 1924, Crosman Arms Co. Rochester, NY Rifle 1925-1929
Model 101 with applied/disc logo and "clickless" forearm Rifle 1938-1939
Model 101 “Pellet”/“Curved” logo variant 1930-1950
Model 101 Late variant with crinkle finish paint and elm stock Rifle 1949-1950"

Practically everything in that post is wrong unfortunately.
Which is why I have been researching vintage American air guns for a series of books to try and correct some of the rampant misinformation out there. Crosman will be the first Volume.

Here is brief look at the correct timeline for the Crosman single shot "Silent Rifle".

There are five major types based on receiver casting logos. There are variants among each type, but we will just cover the major types right now.

TYPE 1:   CROSMAN PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1925 to mid 1930)
TYPE 2:   PREMIER PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (1927 to 1929) Wards only
TYPE 3:   APPLIED DISC PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid 1930 to 1945)
TYPE 4:   CAST LARGE PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (1946 to mid-1948)
TYPE 5:   CAST SMALL PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1948 to mid 1951)

Below is a photo of the 5 different logos side by side to study.



 

[LOKEY]

There’s some really good information for rebuilding these rifles. I’m going to add a picture of what your old pump rod and cup looked like and a new one.

Well I might just go with the rubber cup. I am sure it will work better than the leather. I made a tool to get that nut loose way down inside the air chamber. It worked great but now I need to make a tool that will screw onto the other part to pull it out. When you screw the tool onto the brass part sticking out do you just pull that part out?

[c801tfd]

DWTrull,

Interesting, first time I have seen 5 logo types will be following your research into Crosman. It’s always fun to see new information surface because it just adds to the history, and supports the old saying you don’t know what you don’t know until someone tells you what you don’t know.

As you know there are many mysteries and unverified unknowns surrounding the Crosman 100, 101 and 102 models such as who was the correct maker of the rifled steel barrels? Was it Remington or was it Winchester, I have seen more people say Remington and only one person say it was Winchester and was very adamant that all others who say otherwise are wrong. Now I just say a famous gunmaker may have made them.

As for the model 100, I agree with most that they are very rare, but until someone can document actual production numbers for the 100, 101 and 102 assumptions like for every one hundred model 101 made a single Model 100 was made and no one knows how many 102’s were made, the assumption is more of them were made than the 100. Me I stick with I have only seen two in 57 years which makes them hard to find and yes even rare at least in Montana.

As for production I have seen people say roughly 150,000 101’s were produced, again I do not know where they came up with these numbers because I see and read articles that state Crosman kept very poor records about production. But for the sake of discussion if the ratio of 100:1 is correct and 150,000 101’s were produced from 1925-1949 that would make the total number of 101’s produced in 1940, 1945-1949 would only have been 1,500 copies, which would make them super rare. However, I will stick with hard to find because everything else is based on unsupported data. As you can see on the model 100 production years I left out 1941-1944 because of information that US air rifle makers ceased production in these years to support the war effort and shortage of metals such as copper, brass chrome, nickel etc…

[LOKEY]

I got it apart with my home made tool with no damage to it. But I think the damage mat be already done. It is NASTY inside. There are more parts down in it that need to come out but the release valve is corroded solid and does not move. Can I replace that complete chamber? Do you guys think I can fix this?

[c801tfd]

Lokey,

It looks bad, but it really is in pretty good shape for being 90+ years old.

The red conical seal looks like it has seen better days, again Rick sells a replacement for these, I think I paid $6.00 apiece for the two I bought, these are new seals not old stock. To replace the conical seal you will need to unscrew the top brass part of the exhaust valve stem.

The other parts still in the chamber should be a brass or metal football shaped check valve spring, if you have one you can use a dental type pick to remove the spring, under that will be the check valve, this may fall out as you drive the air chamber out of the receiver, once out there is a small seal that you will need to replace on the check valve (the two brass parts unscrew for seal replacement) and in a rare instance you may even find the remains of an old brass screen filter, I did on the first one I rebuilt. Rick told me this screen was more trouble than needed and to put them back together without it.

The chamber can be difficult to deal with, and sometimes it has been known not to budge at all, mine have all come out with patients, by doing what others have done, use a wooden dowel that just fits into the compression tube from the muzzle end and use a medium hammer to drive the chamber out of the back of the receiver. Based on your trigger issue you don’t need to remove that part, but make sure you put it on after you reinstall the chamber. If the chamber is stuck you may need to use some PB Blaster and some heat to help loosen it.

On the exhaust valve body you will need to remove the old asbestos gasket from the outer groove of the exhaust valve body and use a new gasket to seal the air chamber and exhaust valve body when reassembling.

Also if you get it out check with Rick at precision pellet, he can sell you a new one with an o-ring groove cut into it, this helps with providing a firm seal over the old method of asbestos and floss/string.

If you ever need to remove the compression tube it can be unscrewed from the receiver, but again heat and PB Blaster will be your friend to help free it up. While I have done this removal don’t do it if at all possible. However if you do please be very careful not to dent/crush the tube if you use any type of jaw tool such as pliers, vice grips or table vice to turn the tube. Also if you use any jaw type tool use a piece of thick leather between the teeth and tube.

The method I prefer is a steel rod with a matching diameter of the pump arm pivot holes at the muzzle end. I insert the rod through the holes and alternate between adding heat, PB blaster and slow torque pressure to twist the tube out. This takes time as you do not want to twist the tube.

If using heat be careful not to superheat the aluminum or pot metal receiver it is not steel and will melt.

[Pellet Fun]

Lokey, I’m including another nice link. This one includes the seal repair. The first one shows the disassembly. Both are very handy references. The disassembly shows the compression tube information.

The seal repair gives some special detail too. One thing you need to consider is the conical exhaust is leaded into the threads. That is a very small connection and it’s best to use some heat to soften the lead while you unscrew the end piece for the conical seal replacement. Just be really careful here; not too much heat but enough to loosen the joint. Also, you don’t need to lead this back when you reassemble.

I noticed Rick shows the o-ring instead of a quad type seal. Make sure you get that old asbestos gunk out of the exhaust seal before assembly. It will take some patience. I wound up using CLP break free and soaking the old gasket and then picking at it with tiny pick. WD-40 can be used too but if you have some CLP it’s much better.

If the compression tube seems stuck soak it. Ricks pictures are a confidence builder, but it doesn’t look like you’ll need much more advice. Your almost there.

When you get it all back together I’d enjoy seeing some chronograph numbers.

http://ricksshop1.blogspot.com/2013/09/crosman-101-reseal.html

[Pellet Fun]

Lokey, I almost forgot. Make sure to either leave the trigger off or held back with a zip tie before you reinstall the compression assembly. It will hit the trigger and would probably damage your parts.

[Hoosier Daddy]

SUBSCRIBED!

This is a boat-load of information shared in a short period of time.

[LOKEY]

Well I tried to knock out the valve assembly with a wood dowel. No luck, It will not budge. How do you remove the brass pump tube from the receiver? Maybe if I get it out I can get the valve out of it with some heat. Also is the receiver body pot metal or aluminum? I was a bit worried about braking it. Thanks

[Pellet Fun]

I strongly suggest you don’t try to remove the pump tube. Soak it with a solvent and leave it upright. You can use heat on the aluminum receiver where the compression tube is seated. Just be patient and if it takes a few days of soaking and heat then go slow. Do you have a vise to hold your receiver while you tap a wood dowel? Some of these are very difficult to get out but it will eventually.

[Pellet Fun]

The receiver is aluminum. I don’t know the specifications for the composition.

[Pellet Fun]

If you don’t have any CLP Break Free I suggest you go to a firearms store or a bass pro. This stuff is perfect for things like this. Soak that compression chamber and soak it again. It’ll break free.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Walmart sells it.

[LOKEY]

If you don’t have any CLP Break Free I suggest you go to a firearms store or a bass pro. This stuff is perfect for things like this. Soak that compression chamber and soak it again. It’ll break free.

I have PB Blaster will that work?

[Hoosier Daddy]

Definitely.
 In independent studies PB Blaster always comes out towards the top.
(and commonly used WD-40 towards the bottom)
Interestingly a "Home Brew" of ATF and Acetone 50/50 is always the best.

[LOKEY]

Definitely.
 In independent studies PB Blaster always comes out towards the top.
(and commonly used WD-40 towards the bottom)
Interestingly a "Home Brew" of ATF and Acetone 50/50 is always the best.

Yea it has always worked for me in the past. I filled the tube at the pump end and have it standing barrel up. I will try it daily and see if it brakes free. It might take some time but I will keep you guys posted. Thanks to everyone for all the great help and info.

[TerryM]

  I use a primitive tool that really helps getting the old exhaust valve/receiver seal out.  A piece of dry cane, cut square on the end and serrated.

[Rabbit\Squirrel Killer]

"Model 101 pneumatic pump, single shot .22 caliber, die cast receiver with “premeir” logo made iin 1924
Model 101 w/straight logo: pat. Oct. 28, 1924, Crosman Arms Co. Rochester, NY Rifle 1925-1929
Model 101 with applied/disc logo and "clickless" forearm Rifle 1938-1939
Model 101 “Pellet”/“Curved” logo variant 1930-1950
Model 101 Late variant with crinkle finish paint and elm stock Rifle 1949-1950"

Practically everything in that post is wrong unfortunately.
Which is why I have been researching vintage American air guns for a series of books to try and correct some of the rampant misinformation out there. Crosman will be the first Volume.

Here is brief look at the correct timeline for the Crosman single shot "Silent Rifle".

There are five major types based on receiver casting logos. There are variants among each type, but we will just cover the major types right now.

TYPE 1:   CROSMAN PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1925 to mid 1930)
TYPE 2:   PREMIER PATENT LOGO RECEIVER (1927 to 1929) Wards only
TYPE 3:   APPLIED DISC PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid 1930 to 1945)
TYPE 4:   CAST LARGE PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (1946 to mid-1948)
TYPE 5:   CAST SMALL PELLET LOGO RECEIVER (mid-1948 to mid 1951)

Below is a photo of the 5 different logos side by side to study.



 

I am wondering if your book will include your method of verification of the "truth". What I mean is on some things it may look like many "experts" agree but they are parroting each other so that it appears you would be a just minority opinion even if you are the one with the most evidence. If you just make an assertion of fact without presenting the evidence and method of proof it may be dismissed by those that think the majority can't be wrong. To change minds does take convincing as I am sure you are aware of. I hope this helps and look forward to seeing your work offered for sale. 

[LOKEY]

  I use a primitive tool that really helps getting the old exhaust valve/receiver seal out.  A piece of dry cane, cut square on the end and serrated.

Do you have a pic. Bamboo grows all over close to me.

[DWTrull]

This is specifically addressed to Elroy and Dan

I have acquired DT Fletcher complete paper collection of Crosman and Benjamin paper to add to my own.
I have been researching this stuff for the last couple of years part time since I still have a fulltime job. I'd like to get it done faster,
but I am just finding so much information its taking lots of time just organizing it. I do not use anecdotal information floating around the internet because I have found that alot of it is wrong. The vast bulk of information I have is from period documents and articles. I acquired an enormous amount of Crosman and Benjamin Documents. I have also bought many examples from all the manufacturers that I am investigating to examine and establish a time line. Examining examples is often the only way to establish were it fits in the history.

I do this because I enjoy the detective work involved with establishing the real history. Will I get it 100% right, of course not, but I feel it will be as accurate as possible based on documented facts and not someones hazy recollection from 30 or 40 years ago. I have been primarily working on Crosman right now and haven't even started to organize my Benjamin and Sheridan stuff. I do admit my research has given me a better appreciation of the Crosman Silent Rifle series. And better yet my work on this book has led me to meeting many old time collectors who have lots of information to pass on regarding many of these manufacturers .

Funny thing is, my research started when I picked up a couple of Plainsman rifles and later discovered practically everything on the internet about them was wrong.
That led me down the rabbit hole, and now I am researching all the vintage US manufacturers.

But Crosman will be the first book.

PS:
I plan to source what I consider the most important points, but there is so much information, I will be unable to source every fact in the book or the source section alone would exceed the size of the book. I have over 50,000 files of information. If someone choose to not believe something because I did not source it, SO BE IT. I'm not going to worry about it.