NOE 359-93-RF cast with pure lead

[Firewalker]

Veral Smith of LBT molds, Mountain Molds, Buffalo Arms Co. (BACO).

[Eskimo_Airgunner]

That’s interesting.  What range of bore sizes do black powder bullet molds come in?

Also if a guy could get these in the correct size it might be fun to do some supersonic big bore.

https://mmpsabots.com/store/36-grey-sabot50-pcs/

[Mr.P]

maybe you can 3d print them or get someone else to.  This is something I’ve been meaning to work on for some of my airguns, my first attempt I think will be to find a spring and hammer combo that works down at 2500 or 3000 psi on the Hp  max,  and then a saboted 50, 60, 70 grain slug for .25 or .257.  That or maybe roundball of the right size/weight. 

I worry about plastic melting at high speed in the barrel or fragments that splinter off getting sucked back into the valve with the pressure drop / reverse flow that happens in these guns after a shot, but I will probably try it eventually

[Eskimo_Airgunner]

maybe you can 3d print them or get someone else to.  This is something I’ve been meaning to work on for some of my airguns, my first attempt I think will be to find a spring and hammer combo that works down at 2500 or 3000 psi on the Hp  max,  and then a saboted 50, 60, 70 grain slug for .25 or .257.  That or maybe roundball of the right size/weight. 

I worry about plastic melting at high speed in the barrel or fragments that splinter off getting sucked back into the valve with the pressure drop / reverse flow that happens in these guns after a shot, but I will probably try it eventually

Yes, using the correct plastic would be very important.  I don't think melting would be near the problem as small pieces being shaved off.  I posted it some place else and can't remember where but I have also wondered about "paper patching" which was common in the old black powder cartridge days.  A slightly undersized bullet with essentially a paper sabot.  Buffalo Arms used to have a hole lot of paper patching molds and what not but it might be a thing a person could work out and then there is no plastic to worry about.

[mobilemail]

When you guys cast pure lead slugs, do you just air cool or water quench?

[Back_Roads]

In my preferences I air cool, keeps the lead softer for airgun use.

[Greg_E]

I drop them on a cotton rag inside an aluminum baking container (single use kind) so air cool. Try not to drop them on top of each other or they can dent.

[maraudinglizard]

I air cool mine, just drop them into an old square baking pan. Air cooling keeps them soft, quenching will make them harder. Also I throw the rejects back into the pot during casting and do not want any water on them, it will make the hot lead in the pot explode everywhere.

[Wayne52]

My main objective when I first started this thread wasn't for sabots, casting with wheel weights etc, or using muzzle loading molds for airguns.  My intentions were to let people know that when using a mold designed for a powder burner that using pure lead the size ended up being smaller than the spec's that a mold calling for weelweight lead would be.  Pure 99.9% lead won't harden by quenching, it stays right at 4BHN.  I always air cool everything that I cast in pure lead, about the only thing that'll be different is the color of the slug/pellet that's quenched in pure lead.

[Eskimo_Airgunner]

When you guys cast pure lead slugs, do you just air cool or water quench?

Just air cool and it takes lead about 3-4 days to fully form its crystals and give a you a true hardness reading, until then you can manipulate it without affecting the hardness.  Lead and alloys harden with age for some time and then after many years start to soften some.  If you want uniformity of hardness in a batch you can always anneal them in an oven at about 445 degrees for 20 minutes then take them out and let them cool.  Pouring on a cold day vs hot day will cause the bullets to harden quicker.

Mostly I pour alloy lead but for airgun I pour recycled pellet or pure lead and let cool slowly.  I always size my slugs and do not use them straight from the mold as this can cause inconsistency in accuracy, so any diameter difference are eliminated in the sizing.  Alloys can shrink and when water quenched this shrinkage can be exaggerated.  If the slugs are very undersized this can require "bumping" to size them up, so they can be sized back down.  Within hours of pouring, when they are soft and do not have crystals, is the best time to alter hollow points and such.

[Wayne52]

Commercial pellet lead isn't pure either even the H&N or the JSB or any of them, they've all got some antimony, pure lead will not harden at all.

http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/bullethardness/

[Greg_E]

  If you want uniformity of hardness in a batch you can always anneal them in an oven at about 445 degrees for 20 minutes then take them out and let them cool.

So what you are saying is that everyone should be powder coating to anneal their bullets. Just be VERY careful with some allows! I've had bullets melt in my toaster oven because they got too hot, even though the thermometer showed less than 450 freedom degrees. Lost entire batches that way, but I also have no idea what the alloy was, in general it was junk and I've put it in the corner for when I need to make weights. No more bullets from that unknown junk.

[EdinGa]

  If you want uniformity of hardness in a batch you can always anneal them in an oven at about 445 degrees for 20 minutes then take them out and let them cool.

So what you are saying is that everyone should be powder coating to anneal their bullets. Just be VERY careful with some allows! I've had bullets melt in my toaster oven because they got too hot, even though the thermometer showed less than 450 freedom degrees. Lost entire batches that way, but I also have no idea what the alloy was, in general it was junk and I've put it in the corner for when I need to make weights. No more bullets from that unknown junk.

My dollar store toaster oven never makes it over 375 degrees according to an oven thermometer and an infrared thermometer. It works great for powder coating and I've never had a melted bullet or pellet. Sometimes cheaper is better. 😁

[Eskimo_Airgunner]

  If you want uniformity of hardness in a batch you can always anneal them in an oven at about 445 degrees for 20 minutes then take them out and let them cool.

So what you are saying is that everyone should be powder coating to anneal their bullets. Just be VERY careful with some allows! I've had bullets melt in my toaster oven because they got too hot, even though the thermometer showed less than 450 freedom degrees. Lost entire batches that way, but I also have no idea what the alloy was, in general it was junk and I've put it in the corner for when I need to make weights. No more bullets from that unknown junk.

My dollar store toaster oven never makes it over 375 degrees according to an oven thermometer and an infrared thermometer. It works great for powder coating and I've never had a melted bullet or pellet. Sometimes cheaper is better. 😁

I'm not sure where the lower temperature limit is for annealing lead.  I have only tried it up to 445 because I was afraid to get to close to melting temp, with the oven cycling.  I just know its an old bullet casters trick.  You can also harden up alloyed bullets that were air cooled by annealing and water quenching.  You will probably get shrinkage so you have to be prepared to resize.  I made my own die for bumping up sizes and for increasing the meplat area of a flat nosed slug.