Are Regulated guns less dependable?

[Marc]

Just wondering, with more going on inside, are they any less dependable or more prone to leak issues?

[Gone Fishing]

Yes

[WesBob]

I personally have not found them less dependable, but it is one more thing that could fail I suppose. Not leaving the gun filled to the max on the shelf is probably a good idea for extending the life of the regulator and tube in general for any gun, and having a set of orings is a good idea for any gun as well, as they all eventually leak, or could anyway. 
I've several regulated and unregulated pcp that have faithfully held air for a 2 or 3 years now with no trouble.

[AlanMcD]

I am going to say no . . . .

Technically, the answer has to be "yes" simply because, as you say, there is more going on in there, including more o-rings, so there are more potential points of failure.  But I've been shooting multiple regulated guns for going on ten years, and none have failed me.  One first one started to creep after about 7 years, but it was an easy repair - but one that had to be made before it got much worse.  But even then the gun still shot well.

The odds of any one quality part randomly failing are very low.  Also, I can't seem to leave a gun completely untouched for more than a few years, so my o-rings tend to get routinely replaced before they get too old (my advice, by them by the hundred, and then anytime you go in the gun simply replace the o-rings - it is a small price to pay for added reliability).

So I am going to stand by the answer of "no."

[Ribbonstone]

Does seem that way.  Not good way to run a single rifle the same way at the same time, we just take note of what part/seal failed and extend that to other rifles that haven’t had a failure yet.

Just logically, more seals that need to seal...doubling the moving seals.  There is some redundancy built into some PCP’s...one o-ring would seal, but an end cap can wear 2 or 3.

Human nature I guess….the more adjustable we make something, the more often we adjust.  Just not sure it’s always worth it to adjust the reg rather than look at the simpler solutions.

[Gone Fishing]

You gotta appreciate how succinct that answer is, independent of its merit!

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Theoretically, yes.  In reality....  I can't say one way or the other.  All my regulated guns are reliable.

[Captain Paul]

No, not necessarily.  A well engineered, well fabricated machine built from purpose designed materials built and inspected to exact standards will be far more reliable than one that was poorly designed and built using cheap materials.  There are some very complex machines out there that are extremely reliable that serve us all day every day without fail.

The problem with air rifles is we often don't know how well they are designed nor how good the materials they used are.   I'm not aware of any engineering standards or inspections related to air rifles. Take the Nova Liberty I used to own.  When I took it apart I was really surprised at how well most of the engineering was done, but equally disappointed at some of the extremely cheap o-rings and seals.  I owned that rifle for several years before one of the cheap o-rings (to be fair, they weren't even o-rings but cheap, plastic seals) failed and it leaked.  Had the factory spent a couple pennies on better seals and o-rings I'm sure that rifle would have gone many more years without leaking.

So it's definitely possible for a regulated rifle to be as reliable, or even more so, than an unregulated rifle.  But another thing to consider is how easy the rifle is to service and maintain.  O-rings and other components can fail, so how easy is it to replace them and how long should we expect them to last?

[Ribbonstone]

True...they all eventually leak and need fixing….could be years for either type.

We do make it hard to judge; keep opening them up to change things and we just naturally replace any seal that looks even a little shady.

[Motorhead]

Such as SPRINGS in piston air guns being a consumable and there failure point over time ... will be O-rings in a pre-charged gun.
YES more o-rings than the same gun unregulated .. so the argument of less reliable seems valid enough.

But WHAT A REGULATED GUN has over an Unregulated FAR OUT WEIGHS this perceived shortcoming so my anwser would be NO.

Scott S

[Nomadic Pirate]

I for one cannot bring myself to buy a regulated airgun,...for various reasons.

[nervoustrigger]

Conversely, I can't bring myself to buy an unregulated gun.

Long shot counts.  Each shot just like the last.  Super easy to adjust for a consistent shot string.

All other things being equal, more seals does mean more opportunity to spring a leak.  But replacing O-rings is an easy job, and an inevitable one for any PCP if you own it long enough.  Might as well get comfortable with the idea either way.

Huge power is the one spot where I would prefer unregulated.  0.177 and .30 cal up to 100fpe, regulated all the way.

[Ribbonstone]

Last two posts is why they still make both types.

[Dan H]

I have both ... the reged gun's  will show more problems usually its just more mechanical parts that can go bad , but they shoot very consistent so it is a trade off that can be worth it if the  reged gun is built with  good long lasting quality parts.... Reg-less guns are more dependable by design , you just have to figure out poi shifts as air pressure drops as you shoot threw a single air charge shot string ... Big bore gun's it is usually a hand full of high power shots un reged before it falls off a cliff , so tether the big bores if you are testing ,and have to shoot a bunch or just shooting the air consuming  big bore with a lot of  shot's ...   

[triggertreat]

I would have to say yes if talking long-term.  If no leaks you can count on regulator creep to creep in first beyond what is normal regulator creep.  I have both type PCPs.  My unregulated PCPs are the ones I know I can count on.  Both will eventually need O-rings replaced though.

The other thing to note about regulated guns is the first couple shots of the day after sitting a while and not shooting it due to regulator creep, which is normal but very slight with a properly serviced regulator.  The first couple of shots are typically lower in velocity than those shots that follow, so, if a hunter, that is not desirable.  However, one can resolve this issue by staying 5% below the max velocity for a given regulated set point.  So, with that it is not really an issue on the first couple of shots.

For regulator longevity it is best to tune to desired velocity with a certain weight projectile and then leave the regulator set point alone.  Adjusting it later is asking for regulator creep issues.

[Ribbonstone]

All just supposition….. don’t know of anyone that had a dozen of the same PCP,  half regulated and half not and tested them over enough time  head to head.

I don’t...it’s really rare for me to buy 2 of the same.

So it’s all “apples to oranges”...didn’t start out with identical rifles, so the results are skewed from the start.

Seems like the random leaks/failures are about equal.  Fill ports/fill nipples, end cap o-rings, etc.  Really doesn’t seem fair to blame that kind of thing on regulated or not regulated.

In basic concept, a regulator is a good bit like a tiny PCP inside your big PCP.  O-ring sealed, moving “poppet” (kind of a reverse air cycled poppet...same kind of little moving piston sealing).  It's almost the opposite of redundancy.

Do tend to NON regulated with hunting rifles than can use high power.  Not that many critters per hunt, so not real need for a long shot count. With equal tuning and adjustments,  a PCP running full-out on 3K air “wins” over one running full-out on lower (regulated) air.

When I want a whole lot of nice even velocity lower powered shots….regulation.  Actually, seems to be what regulation was invented to do.

All that stuff in the middle...doesn’t matter much to me.  Non regulated PCP’s adjusted in the middle power range have a shorter sweet spot AND a shorter pressure range.  Regulated adjusted to the same power have a MUCH longer sweet spot AND a much longer pressure range.

Often it comes out as a “push bet”.  25 good shots for 800psi of air use…..or 75 shots for 2400psi of air use.

[triggertreat]

You can purchase plenty of regulated PCPs with ample power for hunting.  My regulated Impact MKII in .30 caliber is one such example of this.  I have had it tuned to 115 FPE,  but know I wasn't maxed out and was just balancing between power and shot count with the tune.  I also have it properly tuned for the most efficient valve dwell by using the 5% rule mentioned earlier.  So I really don't have issues with the first couple of shots of the day.  I have proven this to myself over a three day period of popping 13 squirrels in the head between 82 and 85 yards without firing a shot the next morning before the hunt on that trip.  Also, since I rebuilt the AMP regulator, regulator creep is hard to even see on my analog gauge.  It was creeping up a good 10 bar or less and was obvious on the gauge before the regulator rebuild.  I don't have to worry about this type of thing on my unregulated Marauder, which happens to also be tuned within a 2% ES spread.  It is all about setup and tuning to get the most out of your airgun(s).

[Ribbonstone]

Ample power...not the hard-core maxi-maxi power.

Spend the same time tuning/adjusting it to run of straight max. pressure.

After all, the only thing I'm doing with that kind of power is killing ONE critter...maybe two of the law allows and I feel like hauling two of them out of the woods to convert to "meat".

[KevinJBrown]

You have one more internal device to fail, vs a lower, constant pressure maintained on all the downstream devices. So, on the same gun, I'm going to guess that the regulated pressure on the downstream devices (you actually do this to reduce failures in a production environment) is going to reduce failures vs the single extra point of failure. Overall, I'm going to guess that regulated guns are of higher quality that guns that are never found in a regulated flavor from the manufacturer so these guns are going to be more dependable.
Overall my speculation is that regulated guns are going to be more dependable with proper care.

[triggertreat]

Just wondering, with more going on inside, are they any less dependable or more prone to leak issues?

The regs typically have static and dynamic O-rings.  With that, one can assume the reg will have issues first.  But like has been said, all O-ring will eventually fail under HPA.

I don't think anyone headed to a competition or a hunting trip would risk trusting two to three year old O-rings.  They might be fine as O-rings can last a number of years, but serious air gunners are not likely to risk and O-ring failure with so much money and other preparations being done beforehand.  Around the backyard, sure they can afford to gamble for a number of years, especially if the O-rings were replaced using a burnishing of pure silicon lube.

@ Ribbs,  More power equals more longer range power/FPE.