false advertisement????

[pindog2000]

I picked up a shotgun/shooters news paper which caters to powder burners but has some airgun advertisements in the paper one of the advertisements shows a airforce condor next to a dead pig(high powered air rifles)airhog.com now honestly can a condor put down a pig?and if not why advertise as so?reminds me of that youtube commercial with the whisperer(gamo)putting down a pig i dont know?? most of us here know better but what about the newbees getting into the sport?

[larspawn]

I think any thing is possible.  Heck I could do a tracheotomy on you with a letter opener but I think there are better tools for the purpose.

The question is if it is ethical/humane.  I think you are on the right track. Maybe not false advertising but irresponsible. This comes up every now and then. I think the last was Gamo and the famous hog shooting. I guess I'd rather use a Condor than a Gamo...

[pindog2000]

I agree with you on that i would rather take the condor to a pig fight but i may not like it   what about the newbees who spend money on a product that wont live up to the advertisement?Thank god for this forum while i do think a condor a .25 cal at around 25-30 yrds out can do it why chance it on a pig?boar?The right tools for the job i say, many here who hunt boars use big bore rifles but like i said we on this forum know better but what about the newbees?

[uncle paulie]

I think almost any of the more powerful rifles are capable of putting down a pig given the right circumstances. I would think a shot placed in the temple, eye or ear might do it in one shot for the condor and the like. Some of the less powerful guns could do it with multiple shots, it just depends on how far you feel like tracking the prey, and how much hurt you want to inflict. There are folks that do it with bows routinely. Personally, if boar was ever my choice of prey again, I'd want all the power I could get, .30 cal. at least. I've seen first-hand how p'd-off a boar with a misplaced arrow in him can get. The darn thing "tree'd" three of us in about 5 sec. flat! Took two more arrows to lay him down and another to put the lights out. As far as the newbees, there really isn't much you can do. There will always be newbees who will get into new things without doing the proper research. There really doesn't seem to be anything( in my experience) that you can do for them. The youngsters will hopefully learn a few hard lessons early on and be the better for it. Others are destined to make the same mistakes over and over, and never see the light of day.

pv

[pindog2000]

uncle paulie your right about that.

[RedFeather]

True wild boar or their descendants have what is called a gristle shield across their chest (hogs have a dewlap?).  This is to protect them when going head to head, tusks slashing.  Because of this tough layer, many hunters are advised to use something like an S&W .44 Magnum when afoot with a hand gun.  Some of these animals can knock you down and eviscerate you to death or rip open a femoral artery in the leg.  The pigs shot with air guns are mostly just that - pigs and, if the Gamo videos are anything to go by, tame at that.

I'll go out on a limb and say that even some of the "big bore" air guns are almost marginal on a really large boar/hog.  I know one black powder hunter who shot one at point-blank range with his Lyman Great Plains rifle in .54 packing a very stout conical loading (maybe 1700-1800 FPE).  It passed him (thankfully) and went about ten or twenty yards before collapsing.  He posted a picture of it strung up, as long as he is tall (and he's not short).  What I bought for hunting them afoot?  Kodiak double in .54.  Never had the opportunity but, if they come into MY house, they better watch it!  I ain't gonna grab no pellet rifle!

[larspawn]

I think almost any of the more powerful rifles are capable of putting down a pig given the right circumstances. I would think a shot placed in the temple, eye or ear might do it in one shot for the condor and the like. Some of the less powerful guns could do it with multiple shots, it just depends on how far you feel like tracking the prey, and how much hurt you want to inflict. There are folks that do it with bows routinely. Personally, if boar was ever my choice of prey again, I'd want all the power I could get, .30 cal. at least. I've seen first-hand how p'd-off a boar with a misplaced arrow in him can get. The darn thing "tree'd" three of us in about 5 sec. flat! Took two more arrows to lay him down and another to put the lights out. As far as the newbees, there really isn't much you can do. There will always be newbees who will get into new things without doing the proper research. There really doesn't seem to be anything( in my experience) that you can do for them. The youngsters will hopefully learn a few hard lessons early on and be the better for it. Others are destined to make the same mistakes over and over, and never see the light of day.

pv

Yeah, I guess I'd I wouldn't hunt one with a .22 LR why a .22 pellet?  If I wouldn't hunt one with .17 HMR why a .177 pellet?  You get the point. A broadhead lung shot does the job. A .22 pellet can't hope to do the job.

Like pindog said 'we' get it guess 'we' just need to make sure others do as well. In any weapon sport our job is education as well.

[only1harry]

I am surprised the ad showed a pig next to a Condor.  My guess is it was not an Air Force ad but some retailer who resells Condors? 

A 90-100fpe Condor .25 might take a pig from close range with a very well placed head shot, but I don't think too many people would try it.  I personally wouldn't, unless I had a big bore 9mm, .45 or .50cal.  It's been done with the Korean guns.  I wonder if the ad was for a modified 9mm Condor.  There are a few out there and more and more people are starting to put big bore barrels on their Condors.  They have even converted them to .308.

[zzyzx]

The ad is probably true. Most likely the guy killed the pig with the air rifle. Not a common practice and probably not even too smart to be afield after that game so underpowered.

One guy North of us on the Reservation downed an adult bull moose with a .17HMR. One shot, through the ear into the brain. It can be done but few would ever attempt it. Miss or mis-shoot and how do you stop a mad animal coming at you with any underpowered rifle of any kind?

I have nailed two coyotes with .22 air rifles. Both good shots and both in the sweet spot for the individual rifles. Further out and different conditions and I would not have taken the shots at all. Sometimes things just come together.

[tpw]

he is sending the wrong message to novice shooters and should have used alot more common sense when he placed this ad but the all mighty dollar takes priority to some people. its just a matter of time before some yahoo goes out there with his '1000fps' airgun thinking hes gonna bring home the bacon and ends up getting himself mauled or killed by a ******off hog

[RedFeather]

The thing here, at least to my way of thinking, is such ads DO encourage hunters to go afield way under-gunned.  I am sure that, giving the right circumstances, you can kill most anything with a .22LR.  Eskimos use such small caliber guns to take polar bears, but, then, the animal surely must suffer terribly, dieing over a multi-day span.  (Professional guides won't take you within a light year without at LEAST a .375 H&H.)  And anyone who hunts moose with a .17HMR ought to have the barrel wrapped around his head.  That SURELY is illegal, and rightly so.  In my personal opinion, the only .22 caliber guns for deer sized and above game as ones like the .220 Swift within 200 yards.  Those are NOT light weights, despite caliber.

Air guns are NOT firearms in terms of relative power.  I'm seeing big time brags on horsepower with guns that just, and I mean JUST, equal the power of a .22 Short.  Same bullet weight, same fps.  That's considered a small game, fifty yard round.  So, how come air gunners believe they can do things that firearms owners, generally, cannot?  For example, I could not, in good conscience, hunt deer with a .50 roundball and twenty-five grains of powder.  That's about 180 grains pure lead at maybe 700 fps, tops.  Oh, if I get close enough and shoot it in the head, I have not doubt it will do the job, but if I'm just a bit off the mark, it will also make a mess of it.  There is nothing sorrier on God's green earth than a guy in the camp who maims game and can't follow-up.

I suspect that many air gunners who strain the limits like this don't own firearms.  To them, their guns are Big Medicine.  They see a pellet punch through 3/4" plywood and suddenly it's a death ray.  "If it can do THAT, it ought to be able to easily do THIS."  Next time they do the power test, it might be wise for them to borrow a .22LR and shoot a standard velocity load next to it.  Might open their eyes.  And their minds.

Rant over...................................

[tpw]

well said, red

[zzyzx]

Dang'it RedFeather. Does this mean my going after timber wolf with my 953 Daisy will be a wasted trip?

[North Pack]

Can't legally hunt ANY of the BIG stuff here with a .22 cal. - at least you'd best not get caught.

[RedFeather]

Zzyzx, not for the wolf.     "Hey guys!  C'mon over!  We're havin' air gun hunter today!"  "What, again??"

[oldpink]

RedFeather, excellent bit of common sense regarding powder burners vs. airguns.
Yes, there are people out there taking really big game with super-powered airguns, especially the folks with the Quackenbush rigs.
But even the most powerful of them I know of, something called a Gargoyle in .452 caliber that produces just north of 600fpe, is small potatoes compared to some of the lowest powered rifles and the more powerful handgun rounds.
Meanwhile, a stiff-loaded .44 magnum handgun generates well over 1000fpe, and can be fire the proper hard cast Keith-style or truncated cone slugs most experienced handgun hunters prefer for game deer-sized and above.
My own S&W 10mm autoloader handgun generates an honest 650fpe, and that is not advertising hype; that is with my own Speer Gold Dot 155 grain handloads that I chronographed at 1350fps.
Then, there are the rifles, with what many people consider the "starting" point for power for deer, the .30-30 generating 1900fpe.
Yes, the Dragonslayer, Careers, and other big bore airguns can definitely do the job on some fairly big stuff, but the guys who do it consistently are truly devoted to hunting, and they respect their game enough to never take shots much over 25 yards to maximize energy on target and ensure precise shot placement.
The big centerfire handguns give you quite a bit more punch, while the average centerfire rifles give you that, plus the opportunity to humanely take game up to about 300 yards.
Okay, enough of my pontificating.

[RedFeather]

Points well taken regarding the big hand guns.  But, even there, it has to be kept in perspective.  I once read a good article on magnum handguns by a well respected writer (can't recall who, though) and he related a story in which the author and guide were sharing a cabin with a PO'd grizzly.  The writer had cooked up what he considered very hot loads for his .44 S&W Magnum and ended up emptying the revolver into the bear at point-blank range.  Zero effect.  The guide finally managed to grab his big game rifle and finish the job.  Said it put his S&W in a whole new light.  He ended by talking about the .30-30 Winchester, as well.  How many would tackle a big bear with that?, he asked.  Yet, at point blank range, it far exceeds many big bore revolvers.

Anyway, use enough gun and all that, etc, etc, etc....

[a1Bogey]

If I remember right the 30-30 has more energy at 100 yards than the .44 magnum has at the muzzle.  Factory loads not handloads.

[oldpink]

If I remember right the 30-30 has more energy at 100 yards than the .44 magnum has at the muzzle.  Factory loads not handloads.

That's right, and here's a link detailing the highest performing factory loads for the old horse .30-30, Hornady's LeveRevolution cartridge:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm
The LeveRevolution cartridge is unique in having a soft polymer tip that allows shooters to significantly extend the range and accuracy of tube magazine lever action rifles, which previously were limited to strictly flat points or round noses due to the very real possibility of the sharp tip of a spitzer setting off a cartridge in the magazine tube.
It turns out that this 160 grain load produces over 1300fpe @ 100 yards, so it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the old standard 170 grain roundnose to have at least 1100fpe at the same range, just above the published figures for .44 Magnum out of a handgun, and of course the .44 will probably not have even 500fpe left at 100 yards.
Those longer and more streamlined bullets really make a difference.