Artemis M11 high power .177 slug shooter?

[TroyHammer]

Ok, .22 then, in the end it's all about learning your holdovers or unders.

Bullpups aren't the best at that because of the scope hight, get your scope as close to the barrel as possible and the game is different

A gun shooting 18.13 jsb at 900fps with a scope height of 2.5" from bore (closer to a bullpup configuration) will have half the drop at 50 yards with a 25 yard zero than the same power and only a 1.5" scope height.  Main reason you see big risers on FT guns.

[Scavenger]

[quote author=TroyHammer link=topic=189200.msg156181310#msg1561

Bullpups aren't the best at that because of the scope hight, get your scope as close to the barrel as possible and the game is different
[/quote]

A gun shooting 18.13 jsb at 900fps with a scope height of 2.5" from bore (closer to a bullpup configuration) will have half the drop at 50 yards with a 25 yard zero than the same power and only a 1.5" scope height.  Main reason you see big risers on FT guns.
[/quote]

Really? I would figure that the geometry would be better with a similar plane, ie lower scope. Unless you're saying that the scope will better deal with the drop because of the angle convergence, actually that makes perfect sense now that I think about it.

[Back_Roads]

 I see Wes has them in .22 and .25, may have to message him if there are any .177 the website seems unclear. Darn nice gun for the price.
https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/artemis-m11-22-and-25-caliber/

[EdinGa]

How far are you shooting? My .177 Stormrider will push a 10.5 cpum close to 1000 fps, but only for 6 shot at the top of the curve. A good HP pellet should do the trick at that speed if you can find one that's accurate. I've done a lot of testing on the PB side and if you want expansion at low velocity, you either need a large meplat or very thin HP walls. If you can combine a large frontal area with thin walls, you get massive expansion.

[Scavenger]

 I see Wes has them in .22 and .25, may have to message him if there are any .177 the website seems unclear. Darn nice gun for the price.

I see that .177 is selectable, but yeah not sure on the actual availability.

As for how far am I shooting? I'd love to be able to stretch out to 100 yards, for target shooting, as that's about the length of my property.

Does anyone have one of these in .22? Are they also wicked powerful in .22? Like 50+ ft-lbs?

[Ribbonstone]

Part of it is simply because it’s a .177.

For power, the M11 would be a good choice….moving air is something they tend to do well.

No doubt that larger calibers have more energy.  No doubt that the larger calibers have choices of higher BC slugs. If longest range/most power possible, the .177 won’t do that.

Won’t appeal to the “more is always better” guys….max power, highest BC  is going to “win” with larger bores.

Been about 4 years.  Were NOT a lot as  many choices in .177 slugs, never really found the combination that shot as well as I wanted.   Can get all into the barrel twist vs slug length thing….thinking I went a little too far to the heavy slug side of things.

Main test rifle back then was a .177  BAM 50...rifle was not shy about making power. 

Stuff caught up to me, ended up  cannibalizing  the .177 BAM  50 keep a .22 BAM 51 running.  So I put the project away and haven’t picked it back up.

But I saved the “top” which is a 4 screw swap.

DSCN2679 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

Been kicking around the idea of trying again . Many more  .177  slug choices, some of them in the lighter/shorter lengths that I’m thinking might work.

USE?

Idea was a .177 little  sized pest sniper.

Needed accuracy, wanted better wind-age from a higher BC, wanted the trajectory you get with speed.  Targets are little critters... energy is pretty much a by product or speed and a higher BC.

Riley:

Have an old .22  M10.  “Kind of” the single shot version (suspect there were more changes than just making the M11 as a repeater).

DSCN1643 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

50-60 foot pounds without any mods, just adjustments...took to slugs like a duck to water.

EDIT:

Likely the  main reason I halted the .177 tests.....was just easier to get all the slug benefits and just to live with the extra energy of the .22

[denovich]

I've been really happy with the NSA 17gr .22 slugs, even at only 900fps they shoot really flat, and expansion is great. Biggest problem is how loud they are with little critters... they tend to make a POP! sound on impact.

[Ribbonstone]

Going to make me take that project up again.

Something like a 15-16gr. .177 slug, about a BC of .07, and a starting speed of about 950fps.   Past tests with that weight shows the velocity is there….just didn’t have the BC then.

Not concerned about power….will have more than enough for little critters.

With a 50 yard zero, should stay on a pest bird from 0 to about 70 yards...basically a hold on the feet, hold on, and hold at the level of the head over  at least 70 yards (depending on the scope height over the bore and where you sight in for zero).


Even without the energy or ultimate BC...sounds useful to me.

[Scavenger]

Going to make me take that project up again.

Something like a 15-16gr. .177 slug, about a BC of .07, and a starting speed of about 950fps.   Past tests with that weight shows the velocity is there….just didn’t have the BC then.

Not concerned about power….will have more than enough for little critters.

With a 50 yard zero, should stay on a pest bird from 0 to about 70 yards...basically a hold on the feet, hold on, and hold at the level of the head over  at least 70 yards (depending on the scope height over the bore and where you sight in for zero).


Even without the energy or ultimate BC...sounds useful to me.

This was my exact original thought. It's really impressive what a 40, or even 30 ft-lb .177 does at 100 yards when the BC is .07

We're talking from 30 ft-lbs to well over 20 @ 100 yards! Can't do that with a diabolo shape.

[Rallyshark]

I absolutely love shooting .177 slugs!  They have a lot going for them.  You get deceptively quiet power and penetration with them, lower air usage, and they are also great for long range shots.  The absolute hardest part about a .177 slug gun isn't the power, it's the barrel.  Finding a barrel that truly does well with .177 slugs is the hardest part.  Sure, finding a barrel that does "okay" isn't that hard.  Finding a barrel that is same hole accurate with .177 slugs is a whole other ball game.  It really is hit or miss in that department. 

If you manage to get a gun/barrel combo that works, chances are you'll never want to get rid of that gun  

[EdinGa]

I just ordered some 10 and 11 grain from Griffin. My Stormrider should push them close to 1000. Can't wait to see how they do.

[WesBob]

anyone ever try the M11 177 with slugs? I'm making an order of NSA Slugs to sell on my website and if these NSA slugs do well in the 177 I'll up my order of 177 slugs. 

[Rallyshark]

I haven't tried them in those barrels, so I'm afraid I'm useless there.  I think your best route would just be to try them and see how they do.

[WesBob]

I haven't tried them in those barrels, so I'm afraid I'm useless there.  I think your best route would just be to try them and see how they do.

Will do! Once I get the slugs.

[Back_Roads]

 I ran some NSA 12.5 gr slugs through mine, so far so good, also shot some of my home cast 11.8 gr. in tin but only @ 10m during crony test so far. NSA had no problem at 50 yards to date.

[Ribbonstone]

Have not collected it all into something post able...was a very limited test. Grateful for the  limited number of donated slugs (12.5gr. NSA HP/HB slugs).

Did try that old BAM 50/51 mix...several posts back there is a pictture.….the .177 upper on the .22 lower mentioned some posts back.

ZERO time/effort tuning adjusting...just slapped the .177 upper on the .22 lower.

Honestly didn’t think they’d work.

I was wrong...not a universal endorsement, but in this standard issue barrel they did work well.

Could have tuned the old rifle up a lot hotter, but cruising along at 915fps seems to work just fine.   23 foot pounds in .177...slap the .22 upper on and it’s more like 32 foot pounds with it’s favored pellet...seems about what to expect.

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Still debating why I want to.  Great for uses I don’t have.  For the uses I do have, thinking .22 and pellets would do it.
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Thinking about the older .177 tests….got greedy in the old tests and went with too long/heavy a slug and suffered some stability issues.

[Scavenger]

This thread kind of faded away, and I never did pick up a .177 M11, but if WesBob says slugs perform well. . .I might just have to do that. Thanks for all the contribution, as well as thread revival. Sounds like they do well @50 yeards, which should be a good sign for longer ranges.

[WesBob]

From what I can tell with calipers these barrels aren't choked. Might be my poor measuring skills but I could not get a smaller reading at the muzzle on the different barrels I checked.

[ER00z]

I have very limited experience with .177 slugs and none with the M11.

I tried one gun with 12.5gr NSA's, pushing them around 800fps. They didn't fair very well. That gun did great with pellets so I didn't want to mess with it. With a different gun (BT65) I tried the NSA 15gr slugs. They did much better. Non regulated and the hammer spring turned down, I was getting an average of 995fps or so (~33fpe). While sighting in at 25 yards, those slugs were zipping through a 2X10 board I usually use as a target board and into the tree behind. Moving to 50yards with two fresh 2X10 boards, one ahead of another and with a berm behind I thought I was good for a bit. What surprised me was they were still zipping through the first board. I have a box of NSA 20.5gr .177 slugs that I planned on testing with the hammer spring cranked up. Honestly don't know what to expect from those. Haven't tried the NSA 12.5's in the BT65 as I didn't want to push supersonic speeds.

Once I hit ~25fpe in .177 with pellets I was amazed on what they could do. Getting a 30fpe+ pcp that did well with slugs brings it to a whole new level.