Some help from an air gunner that is all over the place.

[Underwhere]

History
I bought a used RWS Diana 34 (.177) about 6 or 8 years ago for some pest control around the property.
I never found the rifle to be too accurate. I'd get fliers all the time.

After some time there was a distinct "crunch" when charging the rifle so I ordered a Vortek rebuild kit of sorts. A new seal, new spring etc.
So the crunch went away.

I had hoped that after the rebuild my accuracy issues would go away but that didn't happen. At 25 yards I'm probably around a 2" group.
Fliers all the time. I even thought my scope was broken or losing zero so I bought another one. Still no luck.

My capabilities
I used to shoot pistols competitively (not for accuracy) but I did have plenty of trigger time, and had a solid grasp of fundamentals and follow-through. At one time I used to shoot 2-3k rounds per month.  With a 9mm Glock I could hit whatever I wanted. No flinching, no yanking. I can manage pretty decent groups with a 5.56 at 100 yards with non-match ammo. So I don't consider my trigger bad with regards to actual firearms...but perhaps it is bad with airguns. As far as I understand there is a difference. The 34 recoils quite a bit.


My shooting
Most of my pest control is opening up a window on the 2nd story of my house and letting my rifle sit on the sill while I take shots.
I take most of my shots within 20 yards but have taken some as far out as 50.
I would like something quiet as I do have neighbors and this is a semi-residential area.
Chipmunks are ruining my driveway and now I am at the point of needing to spend 35k on repaving it.

My questions
I would like an accurate rifle that I can depend on. I'm not sure the Diana 34 is it...though everything thing I read says it should be.
I have messed with the trigger to try and lighten it. It never changed much. It's not the best. Mediocre. Heavy and mushy without a clean break...but I wasn't expecting a 1911 feel. Is there something I'm missing to shooting this rifle?

My cousin just bought a Gamo Swarm Maxxim Gen 2 in .177 and I feel that it is more accurate than the 34...but still leaves room for improvement.
I'd like to be confident in hitting chipmunks out to 30 yards.

If I didn't want to break the bank what would you do? New rifle? If so which one?

I was looking at the Gamo Maxxim in .22 or the Hatsan Speefire Vortex in .22 (Both are $200)

Given my type of shooting (randomly popping open a window and taking a few shots in between meetings), should I even stay with a break action rifle? PCP (no experience here)? Springer vs Nitro piston?

I'm all over the place and would appreciate a bit of direction from those who know more than I do.

[Roadworthy]

You've not really given enough information on your Diana 34.  Do you know what trigger system it has?  For a period of time during production of the T05 series guns Diana used Chinese barrels with twelve lands and grooves.  Some of these were quite accurate, others were not.  If you've not done so, clean the barrel.  I use a patch dampened with Ballistol or Hoppe's Number Nine for any new or used gun I purchase.  The trigger could possibly use adjustment or even disassembly and polishing.  With a bit of practice half inch center to center five shot groups should be attainable.  In short I'd get another Diana 34 before I looked at anything Gamo, but then I have a half dozen different iterations of the Diana 34 models.

[SteveP-52]

Like Roadworthy suggested, clean the barrel. Check all your stock screws for tightness. I'm going to guess at only 6-8 years old, the trigger is a T06. It will say which on top of the receiver. Whether T05 or T06, you'll find plenty of info in the German Gate for tweaking either or just post a thread there and ask. If you haven't seen that yet, click up on the right where it says Select Gate and in the menu, click on European Gates, then on that page, click on the German Gate. Might also check for any play in the barrel: side to side or up and down as it will cause fliers if the barrel isn't locking up right for you.

Next and probably biggest question is what pellets are you using? Might be as simple as finding a pellet your rifle/barrel likes better that what you're currently using, so you may want to test a few different pellets and weights to find one your barrel really shoots well.

Hopefully that covers a few of the bases for things to look for and try.

[Underwhere]

You've not really given enough information on your Diana 34.  Do you know what trigger system it has?  For a period of time during production of the T05 series guns Diana used Chinese barrels with twelve lands and grooves.  Some of these were quite accurate, others were not.  If you've not done so, clean the barrel.  I use a patch dampened with Ballistol or Hoppe's Number Nine for any new or used gun I purchase.  The trigger could possibly use adjustment or even disassembly and polishing.  With a bit of practice half inch center to center five shot groups should be attainable.  In short I'd get another Diana 34 before I looked at anything Gamo, but then I have a half dozen different iterations of the Diana 34 models.

Thanks for the reply.

I'll try and provide more info. I bought the 34 back in 2011 and it was already used at that point. Given that, I don't think it's the T06. Perhaps the T05 or T01. It's silver and I don't believe it's ribbed. It does have some adjustment but honestly I don't think it's a great trigger feel regardless of how I adjust it.

I do remember trying to clean the barrel out with some Hoppes #9 patches. No change.

I've taken the AQT (army qualification test) a few times with junk 22LR's and then some nicer 5.56's and have scored "rifleman" every time.
I don't feel like my gunpowder gun shooting skills are lacking. It's just not working out with this 34.

When you say "practice", is there something different about shooting these than say a 5.56 any other rifle? I have tried many times to zero this thing, even bought a new scope and I'm just always getting fliers. I've tightened and torqued the screws that the barrel hinges at.

Using this Gamo, it's clearly a cheaper rifle. A lot of flexible plastic on it...but I believe it's much easier to shoot accurately.

[Underwhere]

Like Roadworthy suggested, clean the barrel. Check all your stock screws for tightness. I'm going to guess at only 6-8 years old, the trigger is a T06. It will say which on top of the receiver. Whether T05 or T06, you'll find plenty of info in the German Gate for tweaking either or just post a thread there and ask. If you haven't seen that yet, click up on the right where it says Select Gate and in the menu, click on European Gates, then on that page, click on the German Gate. Might also check for any play in the barrel: side to side or up and down as it will cause fliers if the barrel isn't locking up right for you.

Next and probably biggest question is what pellets are you using? Might be as simple as finding a pellet your rifle/barrel likes better that what you're currently using, so you may want to test a few different pellets and weights to find one your barrel really shoots well.

Hopefully that covers a few of the bases for things to look for and try.

Yes thanks for the advice. I do remember reading threads years ago and ended up taking everything apart, cleaning, lubing and re-assembling.
No side to side play, nor up-down. The lockup is solid.

I tried 3 types of pellets or perhaps more. Digging up some of my email orders here is what I found.

Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum .177 Cal, 10.5 Grains, Round Nose
RWS Superdome .177 Cal, 8.3 Grains, Domed
JSB Diabolo Exact Heavy .177 Cal, 10.2 Grains, Domed

[Underwhere]

I think I have the trigger with 2 adjustments screws next to each other in front of the trigger blade.

At one point I adjusted one trigger so much that it was unsafe to be fired and had to back off on it.

But that didn't really make the trigger any better. It certainly made it less predictable but it wasn't crisp at all.

[ER00z]

Slow typer, a few replies already.

There are many possibilities for something to suite your needs. Though baiting stations really help with taking out chipmunks. It's hard to get them "on the fly". If the ranges are fixed and they're not running about it's easier to get them.

On the low end price point, a Daisy 880 ($35-$55) with scope. With a few simple mods (barrel stabilizing mod) it's (usually) an excellent ~30yard chipmunk elimination machine. There are many sub $200 springers/gas rams out there. If you want more power with out recoil, a Benjamin Maximus or other entry level pcp ($200-300) will do the task, but not quiet if no ldc or moderator fitted. You'll need a Pcp pump, but they can be found for $50-$200.  Then there's "mid grade" pcp's or higher end springers that run $400-$700.

Your Diana 34 could be the tool you need. I found using a sock filled with airsoft bb's (and tied off) improved my accuracy while rested. Others have used folded towels, or rice filled sacks. Something soft to rest your foreword hand on can tighten groups. Also finding "the right pellet" that the gun prefers, and practice with proper technique (a seemingly never ending task to master). You'll have good days and off days.

In general (for me), I find under lever springers to be more accurate than break barrels. The added weight helps while benched/rested. My HW97 is very accurate, not very jumpy. If you want a recoiless springer the Diana 54 is an excellent choice, but it's not cheap. Springers aren't for everyone. Given the range of up to 50 yards, your best bet may be a pcp, though some springers may be up to the task with excellent skill.

You'll get all kinds of replies. All are of best intentions. Good luck getting those little critters.

Take It easy.

[Roadworthy]

Airguns do NOT shoot like firearms.  With a firearm you feel recoil as the projectile exits the barrel.  With a spring piston airgun the recoil happens, the piston moves, pressure builds, then the pellet moves.  Consequently when the pellet exits the barrel the gun is not in the same location as when you aimed and pulled the trigger.  You are sighting the gun based on where the barrel will end up.  It is critical to hold the gun in exactly the same way for every shot.  That way the barrel ends up in the same place every time.  Some guns like a fairly loose hold (artillery hold) on the forearm so the gun can move front to back like an artillery piece.  Others prefer a firmer hold.  My T01 Diana 34 thinks the RWS Super Dome is the best pellet ever.  There is a date code on your rifle at the very back on the left side just above the stock.  It has four digits, the last two of which are the year of manufacture.  By the way, my 2000 Diana 34 had a measured seven pound trigger pull when I got it.  It is now just over a pound after a bit of polishing and adjustment.

[ER00z]

Like Roadworthy said, The artillery hold, with some spring piston/gas ram rifles you'll want a loose hold. Let the rifle rest on an open palm, don't grasp the forestock. Let the butt of the stock just rest into the shoulder, don't pull it in. Don't grasp the rifle with trigger hand, just enough pressure to keep in position with relaxed thumb. Any hold/pressure differences between shots will affect POI. Just moving forehand up or down the stock one or two inches will open groups.

 

[Tater]

Like Roadworthy said, The artillery hold, with some spring piston/gas ram rifles you'll want a loose hold. Let the rifle rest on an open palm, don't grasp the forestock. Let the butt of the stock just rest into the shoulder, don't pull it in. Don't grasp the rifle with trigger hand, just enough pressure to keep in position with relaxed thumb. Any hold/pressure differences between shots will affect POI. Just moving forehand up or down the stock one or two inches will open groups.

And with the artillery hold, a good starting point for your front hand is the balance point of the rifle. Usually a bit in front of the trigger guard. Try a few shots in one spot and adjust if necessary.

[DevilsLuck]

History
I bought a used RWS Diana 34 (.177) about 6 or 8 years ago for some pest control around the property.
I never found the rifle to be too accurate. I'd get fliers all the time.

After some time there was a distinct "crunch" when charging the rifle so I ordered a Vortek rebuild kit of sorts. A new seal, new spring etc.
So the crunch went away.

I had hoped that after the rebuild my accuracy issues would go away but that didn't happen. At 25 yards I'm probably around a 2" group.
Fliers all the time. I even thought my scope was broken or losing zero so I bought another one. Still no luck.

My capabilities
I used to shoot pistols competitively (not for accuracy) but I did have plenty of trigger time, and had a solid grasp of fundamentals and follow-through. At one time I used to shoot 2-3k rounds per month.  With a 9mm Glock I could hit whatever I wanted. No flinching, no yanking. I can manage pretty decent groups with a 5.56 at 100 yards with non-match ammo. So I don't consider my trigger bad with regards to actual firearms...but perhaps it is bad with airguns. As far as I understand there is a difference. The 34 recoils quite a bit.


My shooting
Most of my pest control is opening up a window on the 2nd story of my house and letting my rifle sit on the sill while I take shots.
I take most of my shots within 20 yards but have taken some as far out as 50.
I would like something quiet as I do have neighbors and this is a semi-residential area.
Chipmunks are ruining my driveway and now I am at the point of needing to spend 35k on repaving it.

My questions
I would like an accurate rifle that I can depend on. I'm not sure the Diana 34 is it...though everything thing I read says it should be.
I have messed with the trigger to try and lighten it. It never changed much. It's not the best. Mediocre. Heavy and mushy without a clean break...but I wasn't expecting a 1911 feel. Is there something I'm missing to shooting this rifle?

My cousin just bought a Gamo Swarm Maxxim Gen 2 in .177 and I feel that it is more accurate than the 34...but still leaves room for improvement.
I'd like to be confident in hitting chipmunks out to 30 yards.

If I didn't want to break the bank what would you do? New rifle? If so which one?

I was looking at the Gamo Maxxim in .22 or the Hatsan Speefire Vortex in .22 (Both are $200)

Given my type of shooting (randomly popping open a window and taking a few shots in between meetings), should I even stay with a break action rifle? PCP (no experience here)? Springer vs Nitro piston?

I'm all over the place and would appreciate a bit of direction from those who know more than I do.

When I start experiencing accuracy issues the first thing I suspect to be the issue, is the nut behind the trigger. While you no doubt are proficient at marksmanship with firearms; springers are a whole nother animal. While many of the fundamentals remain consistent between the two; the differences that do exist are truly different, and make a huge difference.
One of the more difficult things for me to get a handle on when I started out shooting springers was follow through. It’s not like powder burners at all. And it starts with how I was holding the rifle throughout the shot cycle. Something that has aided me, in determining if my hold and follow through were consistent, is to scrutinize my sight picture through my scope, throughout the shot cycle. If at the end of my shot cycle, my cross hairs don’t consistently end up in the same place; I know immediately that I’m not being consistent myself.
It may be your gear. It may not. But if not your gear, and it is inconsistent form; a new springer won’t alleviate the problem. Lots of good suggestions here, and pellet selection makes a huge difference once the shooter is straightened out.
If you’ve already got some pellets, and you have the time, it might be worth examining your form, and follow through again. It could save you some money.

[Nick horse]

If you could let someone familiar with springers shoot the 34 they could help you decide the problem, whether it's your hold or gun issue. 

[Underwhere]

OK great info. Thanks everyone. It makes sense now that the recoil happens before the pellet exits and that being a big difference firearms and airguns.

Most of my shooting I don't use a support hand. I rest the rifle on a window sill or a small sandbag.

It seems like the general consensus is to go light on the hold and let the gun recoil as it will. I'll try that.

With all this being said... Should I even go through this effort if fundamentally the recoil will disturb the shot? Should I just switch to a different platform that doesn't do that. (PCP?)

Do nitro guns recoil less and thus will be less prone to this?

[Back_Roads]

 If time is a rare commodity, then spare yourself shooting a couple thousand pellets and go with a PCP, Break barrels take at the lest 100 rounds just to settle in the working parts before true accuracy starts to shine, then more for the shooter to master the platform.

[s500]

Did you replace the breach seal, or barrel seal?

[JW652]

   Dead resting a springer on a hard surface could be most of the problem. The way a springer recoils and bounces around that technique will cause erratic groups. Because of the shot cycle, your body needs to be the rest that absorbs recoil and piston bounce. Put a bag on the sill and place the back of your hand in the notch. Then balance the forend in the palm of your hand with only a light hold. Same with the shoulder. No death grip. A BR technique is to bag the forend against the front of the trigger guard with light pressure from your index finger against the front edge of the stock. Butt loosely touching the shoulder.
  A little practice and you will see a huge difference.
  Also, air rifles are just as ammo sensitive as a fine rimfire. Try some good quality pellets in the medium weight category - 7.9-9.5 grains in .177. RWS SuperMags are a heavy flathead pellet that can perform very well.  H&N Trophys and AA branded JSBs can also provide consistent results. Don't go cheap on pellets. Test them just as you would RF or CF. The dividends are real.
  Enjoy. A new shooting world is about to open up for you.
   

[lizzie]

I am probably not going to add anything meaningful to the thread, other than what has already been said, BUT years or decades of experience with pb's, whether pistol or long gun, will not make you more capable with a springer, other than general technique with breath, follow-through, and other standard shooting habits.

Springers are a different ballgame, and it's almost as if you will have to unlearn some of your pb habits.
I am guessing you have tried the artillery hold. I suggest you continue to practice that, and hopefully, persistence will pay off.
Every once in awhile, you just get a Diana that WILL NOT shoot accurately, no matter what you do. It isn't common, but it does happen. One of my 34s is the same way. Interestingly, it's also one of the "silver" models.

Good luck!

[longhunter]

OK great info. Thanks everyone. It makes sense now that the recoil happens before the pellet exits and that being a big difference firearms and airguns.

Most of my shooting I don't use a support hand. I rest the rifle on a window sill or a small sandbag.

It seems like the general consensus is to go light on the hold and let the gun recoil as it will. I'll try that.

With all this being said... Should I even go through this effort if fundamentally the recoil will disturb the shot? Should I just switch to a different platform that doesn't do that. (PCP?)

Do nitro guns recoil less and thus will be less prone to this?

Therein lies the problem. You can't rest most springers directly on anything, other than your hand. It'll throw off your shot. You have to hold the gun in your hand, and rest your hand on the sand bag, or windowsill.

[lizzie]

I rarely rest mine in my hand.
Usually, whichever gun I shoot is rested on a hard surface that is padded by a folded towel.

[KevinJBrown]

If you like your springer, you are probably going to want to hold it. Yes, you can use something soft to hold it, but your hand is probably going to give you better control in the situation you are describing. You are hunting.
Cant is a word you are going to want to learn.
Consistency is going to be your second best friend, right after technique.
Have fun!