FWB Sport headaches ... continued

[north country gal]

First let me say I love the FWB Sport, despite all its design quirks. It is a very well made, quality German springer. There's no denying that. In fact, I now have two Sports. Up until today, I've kept one setup with a scope and one with a Burris Fastfire III red dot.


For me, the biggest issue has been that sharp and heavy FWB Sport recoil, but more from a compatible sight issue that a shooting issue. I can handle the recoil; it really doesn't affect my shooting or bother me. In fact, it gives the Sport its own unique character. When I can keep a scope on the Sport without constantly fighting the mount and the tendency of the Sport to eat scopes, accuracy has been right there with any of my best springers.


It's that scope issue that has been giving me fits. I had the scoped Sport out at 50 yards several times over the last two weeks on days the shooting conditions cooperated. The Sport would consistently show flashes of brilliance that I knew was there, but getting consistency was the issue. All too often I would get bizarre flyers that I could not attribute to my lack of shooting. Bad scope, loose mount issue? Same old frustration. This Sport has already eaten one scope and I've had to retighten the mount several times using thread lockers, to boot. Despite it all, last time out at the end of the session, once again I discovered the mount had slid backwards. Arrgh! Enough.

On the other Sport, I've been using a Burris Fastfire red dot. Zero issues with the mount or the sight. I don't get scope accuracy with the red dot, but pretty darn close.


I LOVE shooting the Sport with this sight, all the more so because I've ditched the weight of the scope and mounts. This allows me to shoot sitting at the bench, but otherwise shooting the Sport without a rest, same as from a standing position. This offhand-sitting position is steadier than full standing, true, but by remaining in a sitting position, I can more conveniently use two hands to cock the Sport, which is a must with my strength and, even then, it ain't easy. The workout is well worth it, though.


As for the scoped Sport, it now wears a Williams peep, which works fine with the Sport factory front sight.


Once I got the peep dialed in, the previously aggravating scoped Sport returned to its steady and accurate ways, this morning. First group and followed it with an equally decent second group. So off to a good start with the peeped  Sport and will try to tighten things up in future sessions.


Hey, don't need no stinkin' scope with the Sport, anyway.

[Rick67]

You obviously know how to shoot, Miss J

[Yogi]

Joanie,

You amaze me.  Your a natural.
You should enter some shooting competitions, FT, Silloute, no matter, I'm sure you would excell!

-Y

PS think about the Diana Bulls-Eye ZR scope mount.

[north country gal]

Thanks, guys, but I've done competitive shooting and it just didn't agree with me. I'm more the cooperative type than competitive type, so it stressed me too much to compete. Oh, I'm downright brutal when competing against myself, but I didn't have the heart to compete with others with that take no prisoners type approach needed to win. There were times I was actually more concerned with helping the competition than I was beating them. That's the old teacher in me.

[Cslinger]

That stinks.  Nothing worse then having a decent scope killed.  Maybe you could try something like a ZR type mount? 

I hesitate to say this, but my Sport wears an OLD Beeman branded scope that came bundled with a big box Norica “Beeman” big box rifle.  I probably have had it on numerous guns for 20 years. So far so good.

All that said I doubt running those irons will be much of a handicap for you.  . You shoot the way I do……….. in my head…….ok you should better then I do in my head too.

[Mark 611]

What kind of scope rings are you using? The reason I ask is the older guns required Sport Match rings that are made for the rail!

[triggerfest]

First of all... That are some amazing shooting results. Especially with the dot / peep sights on those distances with these results... With those kind of sights, I would not even achieve such a result at 15 yards I think 

Anyway... I honestly believe the Sport deserves a nice scope. Instead of finding a solution for that, have you ever  thought to turn this issue around and do a power de-tune with the Sport ? It might be that you will get way better results in the 10 - 12 fpe space...

[north country gal]

Again, thanks guys.

The mount I was using was the one-piece Sportsmatch made with the cross bolt to fit the FWB grooves in the receiver. How that mount managed to ride up over those grooves three times, despite checking torque and using loc-tite amazes me. Yes, the Sport accuracy certainly rates a good scope and I may try, again, but I need a break from the "scope on the Sport migraine" for awhile. I may even try those excellent Sport open sights, again.

Yes, absolutely I've been thinking of tuning the Sport down a bit and I know there was a 7 joule version offered for the Euro market. I have zero experience tuning a springer, though, so I'd likely have to go shopping for someone to do it for me or if not too difficult, I may try it myself.

[Oldgringo]

Outstanding!  Just outstanding; especially, with an FWB Sport.  You go, Girl!

[Bayman]

Hi Joanie,
I know you're frustrated now but when you're ready to try scoping the Sport again, if you haven't already, try deep cleaning the the dovetail grooves and mount lips with denatured alcohol. Just don't drip any on the stock. Also look to see if the mount's cross pin is bent upward from riding up the slots. It may help to straighten it or rotate it so it gets more engagement. Also according to Sportsmatch those mounts can be torqued to 55 in lbs which is pretty tight. They also say, "some applications may require more" I'd start at 55 inlbs it's probably tighter than you think. It's what I tightened my Sportsmatch rings to and it's surprisingly tight. A low range torque wrench or Wheeler "Fat Wrench" can be a good thing to own. Until then enjoy shooting it in simpler fashion. It looks to be a beautiful gun.

[Jason_Garvin]

Yep, unfortunately the cross groves for the dedicated FWB scope rings, atleast in the 4 rifles I owned weren't machined right and are worthless.  The BKL is better suited.

The pistons in mine would just free fall, the piston seals from the factory barely stay on the piston.  Couple the R1 stout spring, cup face seals, and out of round tubes, and they will continue to eat some scopes.

I de sprung some of mine and ran tight parachute seals that helped, and they are mild natured around 10-11 fpe.

Jason

[SeanGabrell]

Joanie incredible shooting! I’ve been eyeing the Sport for my next purchase and hope to see some good feedback here. Its a pretty heavy rifle with about 14fpe from what I understand. Is the shot cycle that aggressive?

[DonC]

I decide to not scope mine and use the factory nice rear sight. I already have several peepsight reddot kits. It's nice to have one rifle with original notch and post. A springguide from Flying Dragons tames the shot cycle nicely. Another option to consider.

[north country gal]

Wow! Thanks, guys for the great suggestions and tips. Very much appreciated. This is great.

The shot cycle on the Sport is very sharp and fast. The only other springer I have that has a similar shot cycle is the HW35E, but the Sport takes it up to the turbo level. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. Just different than your usual springer of the same fpe.

Yes, I do enjoy that stock FWB open sight setup, too. I plan to do some Sport shooting with them soon.

[lefteyeshot]

Pyramyd has a two piece scope mount made for the Sport and the Patriot, 1"tube-11mm, that has a cross piece on the bottom that fits in the cross grooves in the 11mm scope grooves on the gun. Part# PY-A-5263, $29.99.

I had a Remington break barrel that had the same kind of cross grooves in the 11mm groves. I found a BKL conversion mount, 11mm to picatiny that the cross screws on the bottom of the mount fit in those cross grooves.

[north country gal]

Thanks, Tim. Those FWB style mounts are hard to find, so will order a set off those ASAP. Much appreciated.

[HectorMedina]

Thanks, guys, but I've done competitive shooting and it just didn't agree with me. I'm more the cooperative type than competitive type, so it stressed me too much to compete. Oh, I'm downright brutal when competing against myself, but I didn't have the heart to compete with others with that take no prisoners type approach needed to win. There were times I was actually more concerned with helping the competition than I was beating them. That's the old teacher in me.

You have just described yourself as the typical FT shooter.

;-)

In FT you are not shooting against anyone, not even the MD.
.
You are shooting against the elements and the range conditions.

Give it a try!

Ah! and do use a ZR Mount. It does a really good job of "de-coupling" the recoil from the scope. Whatever the reason (loose seals, stiff spring, overlarge TP, whatever), the ZR mounts "float" the scope while the gun is completing the shot cycle and, therefore, protect the scope.

BTW, ZR Mounts work upwards of 10 ft-lbs, at very low powers there is not enough recoil to ensure a complete excursion. So, if you de-tune your FWB to 7.5 Joules (5.5 ft-lbs)  as the Euro kits do, the ZR Mounts are not the best of ideas.

Good shooting, keep well, healthy and sane!





HM

[north country gal]

Thanks, Hector. Always good to hear from such an expert. Aside from my personality, the other big issue for me is that I live in what is basically an airgun desert. Still dealing with that airguns are not real guns mentality, up here. I'd have to drive a full day just to find an airgun shoot.

Oh, yeah, one of those ZR/Dampa mounts is next.

[Cslinger]

I have a ZR mount on a Diana rifle.  I was a little worried about the scope “moving around” but its imperceptible in use. It sits a tad high and its really weird to grab the gun or close a scope cover etc. and have the scope move but in actual shooting its no different then any other mount in use.   I am pleasantly surprised with it. 

[R1lover]

North Country Gal said "How that mount managed to ride up over those grooves three times, despite checking torque and using loc-tite amazes me."

Guess what folks.....those Sportsmatch mounts made for FWB guns DON'T FIT!!!!!

I had a one piece mount on my .25 Beeman Kodiak and within one tin of pellets the mount slipped and wrecked to top of the receiver.  The mounts do not sit low enough on the dovetails to fully engage the recoil arresting pin in the transverse grooves on FWB guns.  Instead, the mount sits so high that the pin only catches the top edge of the transverse groove and there is simply not enough steel there to resist heavy recoil.  The pin actually PUSHED the steel of my receiver ahead of it!

My gun was a safe queen when I bought it and I felt the Sportsmatch mount had ruined my gun.  I contacted Sportsmatch and was basically told they could not make a mount to fit every model perfectly and there was nothing they could do about it.  To say I was mad was an understatement.

To solve the problem I carefully filed the bottom surfaces of the the mount so it sat lower on the reciever and fully and forceably engaged the pin in the groove.   That fixed the slipping mount problem but didn't fix the damage to my gun.