Toolfreaks Anonymous

[bantam5s]

I was given an axe about a year ago by someone who rescued it from a skip. It is 9 inches across the face and beveled only on one side. No date but it is marked RobtSorby. Sheffield Warranted caste steel. I think Sorby is an English tool manufacturer. I put a handle in it made out of pinus radiata so it is not a robust handle and I have never used it. I have seen old photos dating back to the late 1800s early 1900s of workmen with them working on the New Zealand sailing scows. The photos show they had relatively short handles. The workers not actually working. More posing for the camera. Some of the timbers they used to build those  scows were massive and hewn from the log.

Sounds like a single bevel broad axe to me, would have a handle that curves to the side.
Used for hawing hand cut beams flat.

[Sfttailrdr46]

This thread has been a very interesting read and at times quite educational let's keep it going.

[Novagun]

Good morning Bantam5s.  It certainly makes sense to have a handle curving away from the head. You couldn't do that with radiata timber. I suppose in the old days an axeman could wander into the bush and find a nice limb to suit his purpose.

[Novagun]

This thread has been a very interesting read and at times quite educational let's keep it going.

Here, here. Now isn't that British.

[bantam5s]

Good morning Bantam5s.  It certainly makes sense to have a handle curving away from the head. You couldn't do that with radiata timber. I suppose in the old days an axeman could wander into the bush and find a nice limb to suit his purpose.

If I'm not mistaken Radiata is a form of pine?
Definitely not suitable for tool handles.
Limbs are no good either but I do not know the technical reasons why.

Being English your axes handle would have been made of white ash, and these curved hewing axe handles are traditionally carved and steam bent.

[Sqrl Klr]

I've seen people using these square head bits to drive screws into boards real good preventing slipping/stripping as happens with Phillips head screws sometimes. I don't know if square head screws are any more expensive than Phillips though.

[bantam5s]

I've seen people using these square head bits to drive screws into boards real good preventing slipping/stripping as happens with Phillips head screws sometimes. I don't know if square head screws are any more expensive than Phillips though.

No, Robertson bits are no more expensive than philips.
I don't think any drive style is inherently more expensive to manufacture than another, it's the steel quality and manufacturing tolerances that make the difference.
It cost more to use a good steel and be picky about tolerances.

[lizzie]

I've seen people using these square head bits to drive screws into boards real good preventing slipping/stripping as happens with Phillips head screws sometimes. I don't know if square head screws are any more expensive than Phillips though.

My favorites!

[Stinger177]

I've seen people using these square head bits to drive screws into boards real good preventing slipping/stripping as happens with Phillips head screws sometimes. I don't know if square head screws are any more expensive than Phillips though.

I use those square tips all the time. They do drive more firmly than a typical Phillips or even Roberts tip as the engagement is more secure.

I generally prefer a Phillips tip (due to convenience of availability and versatile use), but I know how to use them, and how to drive them.

You MUST have CONSTANT pressure along the length of the driver bit, and keep pressing into it until it is seated. The most common problem with stripping the screw head, or the bit itself is that people let off at the last instant, thinking that the screw is going to drive itself. (?)

This can happen with the square drive as well, and for exactly the same reason, although to a lesser extent as the square drive has a more secure engagement.

That being said however, the main culprit is that both the Phillips and the square drives are tapered to allow release of the bit from the screw. It is that taper that allows the "stripping" if one does not keep constant pressure on it.

Consider it as "follow through", just as in shooting. If you anticipate your shot and fall off your sighting, you will miss the shot. If you anticipate the screw seating itself and back off, your bit will spin off of the screw head before the screw is fully seated.

When driving a screw, KEEP PUSHING until well after you've released the drill trigger. When shooting, KEEP SIGHTING until well after you've released the trigger.

For the last 46 years I've been a cabinet maker and field installer. I can tell by the sound if someone is letting the bit head spin and it makes me absolutely crazy. Every time you let that bit spin off before the screw is seated, you are wearing off the tip of the bit, and it will continue to spin off every time thereafter because you have now worn off the tip.

I refuse to let anyone use my driver drills or bits for that very reason. I can get weeks out of the life of one Phillips tip, and I always have a box of 50 on hand to change up when one does go bad on me. They do wear out, just like sandpaper. Use a new one when you need it, but use the one you have properly.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a HUGE stickler for me. I see stripped out screw heads all the time for this very reason, and most often these days, I'm the one who has to go in and re-do what someone else F'ed up, therefore I'm removing the old screws. BTW, if I drive a screw in and have to remove it, I always use a new screw afterward. They're cheap, but wasting time on a messed up one is not.

Back to the main topic about square head tips and screws, yes, squares do drive better, if used properly as I described.

HTH

 

[Novagun]

Yes, dead right Stinger177.
You must remember the time when screws were all slotted. All you needed was two or three different screwdrivers in your kit. Maybe a Stanley push driver. You drilled holes for screws in those days.
Then along came Phillips heads and then Posidrive (maybe Roberts) then came square drives. all in three sizes. The screw driver kit in the tool box grew considerably. Then the manufacturers got really tricky and made handles green and grey and black so when you dropped them you couldn't find them. Buy another screwdriver.
Then came drill drivers.
And we still haven't talked about planes yet.

[bantam5s]

Yes, dead right Stinger177.
You must remember the time when screws were all slotted. All you needed was two or three different screwdrivers in your kit. Maybe a Stanley push driver. You drilled holes for screws in those days.
Then along came Phillips heads and then Posidrive (maybe Roberts) then came square drives. all in three sizes. The screw driver kit in the tool box grew considerably. Then the manufacturers got really tricky and made handles green and grey and black so when you dropped them you couldn't find them. Buy another screwdriver.
Then came drill drivers.
And we still haven't talked about planes yet.

Robertson ( square ) actually came around the same time as Phillips,  but because of some deal with Ford Robertson got the short end of the stick.

Btw it took me awhile to realize that crosmans screw of choice in modern clamshell guns is not a philips, but actually a Robertson standard combination and not a philips standard combination like I thought when I first saw it.
I think it's a #2 robertson.

[Hoosier Daddy]

And we still haven't talked about planes yet.

Yes, the two I recently posted, safetying pliers and the Snoopy, were from my USAF Aircraft mechanic days. 

[Firewalker]

Square drive are ok but I've switched all my cabinet screws to torx as well as deck screws. Like Dennis, I dont reuse screws and spend s lot of time replacing screws with good ones.

I am ok with Philip's heads as long as they have good heads but will remove and replace any and all slot head screws I find anywhere. Life is too short for that noise.

[bantam5s]

Square drive are ok but I've switched all my cabinet screws to torx as well as deck screws. Like Dennis, I dont reuse screws and spend s lot of time replacing screws with good ones.

I am ok with Philip's heads as long as they have good heads but will remove and replace any and all slot head screws I find anywhere. Life is too short for that noise.

Reminds me of my uncle.
He was helping with something and went off on me for using slotted screws complaining about how worthless they were .
He's a plumber, so when I found an antique Treemont stilson pattern pipe wrench I cleaned it up for him and mounted it on a plaque for Christmas, and I made sure to use slotted screws when I made the plaque just to mess with him 

[Buldawg76]

Straight slot, Phillip's, torx, square drive, posidrive, tamper proof are all just a consorted effort by tool and hardware manufacturers to create a need to buy more tools.

Just some new young engineer trying to reinvent the wheel and impress his bosses.

BD

[lizzie]

Straight slot, Phillip's, torx, square drive, posidrive, tamper proof are all just a consorted effort by tool and hardware manufacturers to create a need to buy more tools.

Just some new young engineer trying to reinvent the wheel and impress his bosses.

BD

That may be true, but I, for one, am really glad they did. Square and torx fasteners have made my life easier! Lol

[bantam5s]

Straight slot, Phillip's, torx, square drive, posidrive, tamper proof are all just a consorted effort by tool and hardware manufacturers to create a need to buy more tools.

Just some new young engineer trying to reinvent the wheel and impress his bosses.

BD

There are actual advantages to the various types.

For example pretty much everything besides slotted screws don't slip off the driver tip.
Torx drivers can be engineered to a precise fit that really holds onto fasteners.
Philips can often be turned without requiring the exact proper size.
Pozidrive I'm not sure about,  Unidrive provides more fastener hold than standard philips.
Robertson us one of the best and should have been chosen over Philips.

[Buldawg76]

Being a mechanic for 45 plus years I have seen the introduction of all those new screw drive head configurations change thru the years and while they do offer some improvements it also requires the necessity to buy new tools to fit the changes. Just not a necessary upgrade IMO. I never had any issue with stripping screw heads when using correct removal procedures.

If it aint broke don't fix it goes along way in my world.

Just my .2 cents from a lifetime of dealing with removing and installing all types of fasteners.

BD

[Insanity]

Being a mechanic for 45 plus years I have seen the introduction of all those new screw drive head configurations change thru the years and while they do offer some improvements it also requires the necessity to buy new tools to fit the changes. Just not a necessary upgrade IMO. I never had any issue with stripping screw heads when using correct removal procedures.

If it aint broke don't fix it goes along way in my world.

Just my .2 cents from a lifetime of dealing with removing and installing all types of fasteners.

BD

Well a cave worked quite well for a house but here we are in 2021 arguing about the best fastener type.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  That's what makes the backroom a fun place to post all the varying opinions many times allows us to learn something new. I never knew that the square (Robertson) drive was invented around the same time as the Phillips drive screws. I also was unaware that they had a name other than square drive.