LGV trigger malfunction!

[Toxylon]

I was barrel seasoning my LGV Master Ultra .22 cal, so shooting-pulling patch-shooting, when 10 shots into the regimen the LGV's trigger stopped functioning: gun cocked normally, although I didn't pay attention to it, no reason to. Loaded and locked, I released the safety as usual and pulled the trigger, but the trigger went all the way back without much any resistance, and the gun didn't go off. What the...?

Switching the safety on and off didn't affect the trigger. I tried to re-cock the gun. Doing so, at the bottom of the cocking action I could hear and feel as if the piston had moved 5 mm or so further back into the trigger mechanism with a click, as if cocking normally. But if the gun wasn't properly cocked already, what on earth kept the piston back before the re-cock?

After the re-cock, the trigger had a tiny bit of resistance, but pulling the trigger did nothing, again. After the first trigger pull here, the trigger would go back without any resistance, basically rocking idly on its axle. 

De-cocking, or pulling the trigger while the barrel was broken was a no-go, since the LGV's safety forces itself on upon cocking, and switching the safety off after the barrel pressure is off put me back in square one, ie. trigger does nothing.

Cocked and loaded and nowhere to go, things started to look grim. I re-cocked the gun one more time, and for some reason, the trigger engaged this time and the gun went off. Phew!

To see where I'm at, I then carefully cocked and loaded the gun again, and it fired the pellet normally, as it did a second time. All is not well, regardless. I've shot airguns for a quarter century, and I've never had a misfire of this type, on any airgun. My trust in the LGV trigger is pretty badly shaken now.

Before today, I've shot the LGV some 300+ times, without a hitch in the trigger or any other function.

I'm not all that versed in the LGV trigger, or trigger work in general. I guess why I'm writing this beyond reporting, is to ask LGV conoisseurs if what happened to me rings any bells and if there is anything I can do to prevent trigger malfunctions in the future. (pre-emptive wisecrack strike: buying some other gun is already used).

I bought the LGV six months ago, off a registered arms dealer. Sending the gun back on guarantee is always an option, but: LGV's are made no more, and the dealer doesn't have them in stock anymore. Since the gun malfunctioned once and seems to work again, I'll have a hard time convincing the dealer there is a problem. I suppose they could end up sending my gun to Germany for the Walther folks to repair, but then I'm outta gun for weeks if not months of prime airgunning time. I may very well take that route, but I'd like to know more about the situation before committing.

[Springrrrr]

There are You Tube vids that show the trigger in detail.  If you have any mechanical, you can get in there and find out what the problem may be.

But first, I would try the adjustment screws to see if you are at a critical edge.

[MartyMcFly]

Here is the trigger group from one of mine. Its not too hard to take apart. It sounds like you might have either a problem with the adjustment screw or one of the springs.

-Marty

[MartyMcFly]

If you have a European model you might have the match trigger installed. Below is a pick with the match trigger, it will have two adjustment screws.

-Marty

[Winston]

As the previous poster suggested, I would consider if the trigger pull weight has been set too low. I took delivery of one of these 2 days ago, so I have exactly 2 days experience with this rifle. The owners manual I have does not give any suggestions about how far counterclockwise the pull weight adjustment screw can be backed out before reliable operation is affected.
I shot mine yesterday a fair amount and felt that the pull weight was a little heavy. I backed out the rear screw about 1/2 turn, but I probably will not loosen it any further.
The rifle is heavy, as airgun site reviewers commented on. I chronographed it with 8.2 grain RWS wadcutter pellets and it clocked at 950-960 fps. This is more velocity than I expected for a brand new rifle.

[MartyMcFly]

Duke, aside from the springs being stretched or adjustment screws being out of range I think there is a possibility that one of the parts is out of alignment. If you look at the pictures I posted you will notice a metal ring right after the plastic spring guide. That ring has a cut out in it (on the bottom, hidden from view) that allows the hook on the metal lever below it to latch onto the piston rod - I think its highly unlikely but possible that the ring has rotated a bit and is putting side pressure on that lever, preventing it from releasing the piston.

-Marty

[HectorMedina]

I would agree with Martyl

Since you say that the trigger blade was "limp", meaning no return force, then I would suspect the trigger return spring has jumped loose on one of its ends and is interfering with the proper functioning of the gun.

Look into this video:



and you will see these triggers are not hard to service, they just need care and attention to detail.

HTH



HM

[Toxylon]

Guys, big thanks all around!

I wrote the OP straight after putting the rifle down, a little rattled. Didn't check the forums or YouTube for answers, as I would normally do. I've been really busy these past few days, and I really appreciate the help and the links you provided.

FWIW, I haven't touched the LGV's trigger adjustments since getting the gun. From the get-go the first stage was needlessly long and the trigger pull was a tiny bit too high for my tastes, but I went for the breaking in as is. There wasn't any change in the trigger for the first 300 shots, then out of the blue, the trigger stopped working. Seems to me, too, like a spring out of alignment or some such, if only the trigger hadn't started working again.

Since getting heavily back into airguns, I've opened up a bunch of springers, and I've also done my first trigger mod, on my 350 Mag (first stage shortening screw installation). I don't think I'm in over my head with the LGV. At the same time I know the tiniest changes in trigger mechanisms make a huge difference, for better or worse.

[HectorMedina]

Guys, big thanks all around!

I wrote the OP straight after putting the rifle down, a little rattled. Didn't check the forums or YouTube for answers, as I would normally do. I've been really busy these past few days, and I really appreciate the help and the links you provided.

FWIW, I haven't touched the LGV's trigger adjustments since getting the gun. From the get-go the first stage was needlessly long and the trigger pull was a tiny bit too high for my tastes, but I went for the breaking in as is. There wasn't any change in the trigger for the first 300 shots, then out of the blue, the trigger stopped working. Seems to me, too, like a spring out of alignment or some such, if only the trigger hadn't started working again.

Since getting heavily back into airguns, I've opened up a bunch of springers, and I've also done my first trigger mod, on my 350 Mag (first stage shortening screw installation). I don't think I'm in over my head with the LGV. At the same time I know the tiniest changes in trigger mechanisms make a huge difference, for better or worse.

Yup!

There are times when I have to set down a gun and simply walk away, get my trusty 54 out and go shoot a little. LOL!

;-)

Good luck and Keep us posted!





HM

[Toxylon]

I've enjoyed visions of entering my dotage, way, way in the future, with my LGV still in hand. It's those kinds of feelings that make sudden trigger issues sting all the more. 

I'll keep you guys posted, when in two weeks or so I'll have some serious airgunning time.

[Toxylon]

Update, as promised.

The LGV trigger issue continued intermittently. Every once in a quick while, pulling the trigger would not fire the gun. Re-cocking the gun would wake the trigger up, but obviously, having a gun that doesn't necessarily shoot when you want / need it to is a huge issue. Then, after a 30ish-shot period of this the trigger suddenly cleaned up its act: to date I've fired the LGV for some 140 consecutive shots without any trigger hiccups. I don't know what happened here, but I'm all for experimenting - in this case, experimenting by doing nothing. Of course, I'm not taking any chances, safety-wise, and I'm on alert for any further issues. But, so far, so good.

[HectorMedina]

Update, as promised.

The LGV trigger issue continued intermittently. Every once in a quick while, pulling the trigger would not fire the gun. Re-cocking the gun would wake the trigger up, but obviously, having a gun that doesn't necessarily shoot when you want / need it to is a huge issue. Then, after a 30ish-shot period of this the trigger suddenly cleaned up its act: to date I've fired the LGV for some 140 consecutive shots without any trigger hiccups. I don't know what happened here, but I'm all for experimenting - in this case, experimenting by doing nothing. Of course, I'm not taking any chances, safety-wise, and I'm on alert for any further issues. But, so far, so good.

What you describe is typical of triggers that have lost alignment between pins/housing/rotating parts.
This may be due to a number of causes: Out of round pins, bent pins, oblong holes in the parts or the housing, too tight a housing, etc. I am sure you get the picture.
Walther housings (as any part that is injection molded using an alloy that contains Zinc) become larger and larger as the zinc dissolves the steel in the mould.
A mould that "grows" can mean MORE or LESS space for the parts to act freely. It all depends on which section of the housing or part you are talking about.

Remove all greases/lubes, and test EACH part with its pin in their location, using more or less screw torque in the housing. Test that the parts do NOT SLIDE LATERALLY in the pins within the housing.

That will tell you where the fault is. If it is not there, then we'll need to look elsewhere.

Of course, option "Zero" is still available, do nothing and just continue to shoot. IT MAY BE that whatever was the problem (a burr, or an oval pin)  has already reached "stasis" and will stay there for a long time.

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

[Toxylon]

Hector,

Once again you've provided insight that I simply must copy and paste for future reference. Naturally, I'm quite curious about the cause of the trigger problem. Come the proper time, I'm sure to check the trigger mech, piece by piece. Machines don't self-repair, in general. Any stasis achieved may be disrupted at any time.