Lost My Mind, Beeman Chief II in 177 Is Coming !

[Nvreloader]

Will
Use this to figure it all out,

http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/index.php,
Just fill the blanks.............

Don

[wll2506]

Out at my location, 6:20am, this time I'm stationed around the backside of the old barn, this is where most of the Feral Pigeons have been leaving for their morning outing and where the Starlings have been causing misery for every living thing they see. I'm approximately to averaging 55+ yds away which is in the strike zone of the Chief IIs + that I'm using today.

I have been coming here since about the first of the year about every weekend this past year. The pest birds have come to recognize my car and once they see it, they are gone --- so today I'm doing a dipsy doodle and I'll try to fake 'em out a bit.

Chief is set at 2900psi for its opening shot, 15gr slug is loaded up, and I'm in waiting :-)

Just lasered and I'm actually ~ 53 yards away, with a possible 63+ yard shot on the long side where I am.

A Feral Pigeon pops up, cock gun and let 'er rip ---- first shot after resting all night was at 763fps at 63 yards and the shot was low, windage was perfect. My scope is set at 10x. C#@P ! I shot a few more test shots and adjusted the scopes elevation. I should be good now, gun is now pumping the slugs out at 775 range giving me ~16.5fpe at 55 yards. AGAIN, The gun is so quiet in 177 all I hear is the mechanism and I can hear the secondary bounces letting out air that is wasted!!!

I can say this gun could be a world beater if it had a SSG or maybe the "O" Ring thing (I forget what it is called or how I can do it on this gun , - ALL HELP IS WELCOME :-)

It must be spring as the bunnies are starting to come out, If I'm out walking around I usually talk to them and tell them to hide from people like me, (in case you are wondering, I really don't shoot rabbits, except Jacks).

The sun is up and it is in my scope, I MUST make a lens shade for this gun !.

Have fired off a few more shots in practice and air is around 2900psi, no more Feral s have popped up and the Starlings are off in the boonies :-)

It is now 8:50am and the sun is starting to heat things up. I will wait a bit longer and I may bring out my Red Talon CO2 Gun.

It's now 9:20am and there are two Ravens 76 yards away playing kissy poo , it's definitely spring time :-) I Have fired off a few more shots, all velocities are in the 775+ range, very consistent, I have shot 16 shots and the gauge is reading about 2800 psi ---that is crazy good, maybe it's because it is warmer, I don't know, but the tank feels cool ? Maybe it's SSG'ing itself Lol, Lol, Lol.

I'm heading home after a fun day, this gun is surprising me in a lot of good ways for sure.

Got a question, I won't be shooting this gun till next week I think, should I let about 1/2 the air out to save the poppet valve or will it matter ?


Till next time, stay safe -

wll

[airpuffhunter]

beatiful write up, I can almost feel there, thank you

[mrbulk]

Out at my location, 6:20am, this time I'm stationed around the backside of the old barn, this is where most of the Feral Pigeons have been leaving for their morning outing and where the Starlings have been causing misery for every living thing they see. I'm approximately to averaging 55+ yds away which is in the strike zone of the Chief IIs + that I'm using today.

I have been coming here since about the first of the year about every weekend this past year. The pest birds have come to recognize my car and once they see it, they are gone --- so today I'm doing a dipsy doodle and I'll try to fake 'em out a bit.

Chief is set at 2900psi for its opening shot, 15gr slug is loaded up, and I'm in waiting :-)

Just lasered and I'm actually ~ 53 yards away, with a possible 63+ yard shot on the long side where I am.

A Feral Pigeon pops up, cock gun and let 'er rip ---- first shot after resting all night was at 763fps at 63 yards and the shot was low, windage was perfect. My scope is set at 10x. C#@P ! I shot a few more test shots and adjusted the scopes elevation. I should be good now, gun is now pumping the slugs out at 775 range giving me ~16.5fpe at 55 yards. AGAIN, The gun is so quiet in 177 all I hear is the mechanism and I can hear the secondary bounces letting out air that is wasted!!!

I can say this gun could be a world beater if it had a SSG or maybe the "O" Ring thing (I forget what it is called or how I can do it on this gun , - ALL HELP IS WELCOME :-)

It must be spring as the bunnies are starting to come out, If I'm out walking around I usually talk to them and tell them to hide from people like me, (in case you are wondering, I really don't shoot rabbits, except Jacks).

The sun is up and it is in my scope, I MUST make a lens shade for this gun !.

Have fired off a few more shots in practice and air is around 2900psi, no more Feral s have popped up and the Starlings are off in the boonies :-)

It is now 8:50am and the sun is starting to heat things up. I will wait a bit longer and I may bring out my Red Talon CO2 Gun.

It's now 9:20am and there are two Ravens 76 yards away playing kissy poo , it's definitely spring time :-) I Have fired off a few more shots, all velocities are in the 775+ range, very consistent, I have shot 16 shots and the gauge is reading about 2800 psi ---that is crazy good, maybe it's because it is warmer, I don't know, but the tank feels cool ? Maybe it's SSG'ing itself Lol, Lol, Lol.

I'm heading home after a fun day, this gun is surprising me in a lot of good ways for sure.

Got a question, I won't be shooting this gun till next week I think, should I let about 1/2 the air out to save the poppet valve or will it matter ?


Till next time, stay safe -

wll

I've seen a couple of hunting videos where the shooters have captured live Starlings from before, and placed them in cages to bait in the other Starlings with their distress calls. Treacherous but highly effective!

[wll2506]

Went again, but only stayed about 1/2 hr, it was hot as heck !!!

Did fire off 5 more and velocities were in the 778-785fps range, tank is down to ~2700 psi, that is with 21 shots.

Man alive I'm impressed, the fact that I'm not getting a major spike in the velocity curve impresses me greatly ;-)

wll

[wll2506]

Finally got off work and set the Chief II Plus up, this gun is a monster, the barrel is ~ 15mm and the tank diameter is 31.75mm or 1.25" This gun is heavy and my trigger as it came from the factory was ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, it was a incredibly heavy and creepy 6 lbs. I will take the gun out of the stock after work tomorrow, and see if I can re-work the trigger. The butt section seems light, but the mid section is a brute. This gun may use the QB trigger but the rest of the gun is a brick house. This gun is more than a QB with a 3000 psi tank attached for sure. The gun came with two magazines and two shot trays, a nice feature ;- ) I use a single shot tray 95% of the time

Yes, it is a 3000psi tank, I started shooting at 2900psi. My first shot was 900 fps with JSB 13.43gr Monsters after I had tuned the hammer spring down one complete turn +. This gun when shooting slugs will be an absolute flat shooting tightrope --- eating every pest in its path !

Just about every shot I kept turning the spring power down, at 15 shots I had the velocity down to 845fps with the Monsters. I must have turned the hammer spring down by at least 5 turns.

With some serious testing I'm sure I can get a 20+ shot string of 800+ velocity shooting heavy pellets (15+gr) in this 177 cal gun - BTW: My Nielsen 15gr 177 cal slugs came in today. In reality if I had good tuning skills I would probably get 30+ shots.

I might add the moderator works OK, not the best in the world but it does keep the noise down. At this power, if it did not have a moderator, I'm sure my neighbors would be having fits !!

All in all I'm very happy with this gun, it is a monster and a powerhouse ---- ESPECIALLY at its price point. I'm looking forward to final trigger work and sighting in tomorrow for an outing on Saturday !

Sorry, I could not take pics, hopefully tomorrow.

wll

Tube diameter is 1.023ish, my very bad mistake as I'm blind as a bat !!!

wll

[wll2506]

I decided to JUMP over the edge (won't be the first time) I'm GOING to set up an onboard externally regulated auxiliary tank on my Chief II + (say that 3 times fast).

I have some small tanks at home that I will regulate at an outgoing 2500 psi. My Chief II + tank will start out at 2950ish psi and when it gets to 2500 psi I will turn the open valve on the auxiliary tank that starts out at ~3000 psi and let it regulate the Chief tank at 2500 psi as long as it can - from previous testing I start to lose velocity at 2000psi, and that is where I stop. This gun as it shoots now keeps its velocity very well at the pressure setting of 2950 to 2000 psi (from ~775 fps to ~805 fps at this pressure range on a very gradual power curve).

The auxiliary tank will be strapped to the gun the same way my QB78s is set up --- The man difference beside outgoing pressure is it will be a hose connection, giving the system a cleaner look and allowing the auxiliary tank to be set back and balance the gun better ---- A 3 inch Velcro strap secured to the gun will be the holding mechanism.

Being a 13ci auxiliary tank is about 213 cc's and the guns tank is from what I gather 135cc, that gives me another 63% more air volume and about 27ish more shots :-)

We will see how this plan comes to fruition ?

The main reason for this is when I shoot heavier slugs (17-20gr's) I will need a bit more air to send slugs at my 775 + velocity --- yet I still want a very good shot count !

We will see what happens. My Griffin 17gr 177 cal pills arrive on Saturday !

wll

[wll2506]

I decided to JUMP over the edge (won't be the first time) I'm GOING to set up an onboard externally regulated auxiliary tank on my Chief II + (say that 3 times fast).

I have some small tanks at home that I will regulate at an outgoing 2500 psi. My Chief II + tank will start out at 2950ish psi and when it gets to 2500 psi I will turn the open valve on the auxiliary tank that starts out at ~3000 psi and let it regulate the Chief tank at 2500 psi as long as it can - from previous testing I start to lose velocity at 2000psi, and that is where I stop. This gun as it shoots now keeps its velocity very well at the pressure setting of 2950 to 2000 psi (from ~775 fps to ~805 fps at this pressure range on a very gradual power curve).

The auxiliary tank will be strapped to the gun the same way my QB78s is set up --- The man difference beside outgoing pressure is it will be a hose connection, giving the system a cleaner look and allowing the auxiliary tank to be set back and balance the gun better ---- A 3 inch Velcro strap secured to the gun will be the holding mechanism.

Being a 13ci auxiliary tank is about 213 cc's and the guns tank is from what I gather 135cc, that gives me another 63% more air volume and about 27ish more shots :-)

We will see how this plan comes to fruition ?

The main reason for this is when I shoot heavier slugs (17-20gr's) I will need a bit more air to send slugs at my 775 + velocity --- yet I still want a very good shot count !

We will see what happens. My Griffin 17gr 177 cal pills arrive on Saturday !

wll

Well this is not working out as planned for sure, what a pain so far :-(

wll

[Ribbonstone]

Does seem like it would work at 3K if you didn't turn the tank on until the rifle tube shot down to under reg. output..  Worked with a tether line and a large tank.

[Nvreloader]

Ok Will

Drop the 411 on what went wrong...........

I don't like hanging out in space..........   LOL

Tia,
Don

[OTmachine]

Tube diameter is 1.023ish, my very bad mistake as I'm blind as a bat !!!

wll

So, are you saying that the air tube is the same O.D. as the Chief?

[CraigH]

I thought the original measurement (same as M-Rod) was in error, but not having a PLUS in hand, declined to comment.

The Commander may have the M-Rod tube diameter (or close).

[wll2506]

Tube diameter is 1.023ish, my very bad mistake as I'm blind as a bat !!!

wll

So, are you saying that the air tube is the same O.D. as the Chief?

Yes, the tube diameter is ~1.023 --- I don't know what the Chief tube diameter is as I only have the ChIef  II +

I wonder if the Chief and Chief II + tubes are the same ... would be interesting to really find out the difference ? I have absolutly no idea if the attachment method is super strengthened or not on the II +, all I know I would never put more pressure in the gun than manufactures recomendation, that is suicide !

wll

[Ribbonstone]

Same diameter.   Your length estimate is off for just the metal tube (no end caps), likely more like 23 3/8ths.

We're just never sure if the metal it's made from is the same, the value of unrated retention screws, or some other small design change internally. Keep it to the listed pressure and you should be OK. 


Were some vids/discussion....lot of Chief's post at one time.

Testing Beeman Chief Valve Screws to Failure- SECOND VIDEO added reply #42

I’ve not run the .177 Chief over 2K, even with the new retention screws...for me, the 2K fill was one of the reasons I bought the rifle.

[wll2506]

Got the Griffin slugs today --- here is a pic the 12.5 Nielsen on the left, the 15gr Nielsen in the middle and the 17gr Griffin on the right. I will take the Griffin out on Sat, chrono as I sight in on rocks and see how they do .... Hope they perform well and It doesn't take much power adjustment to get them in the 775 fps zone ?

Will be shooting the Chief II + as you would expect.



wll

[OTmachine]

Same diameter.   Your length estimate is off for just the metal tube (no end caps), likely more like 23 3/8ths.

We're just never sure if the metal it's made from is the same, the value of unrated retention screws, or some other small design change internally. Keep it to the listed pressure and you should be OK. 


Were some vids/discussion....lot of Chief's post at one time.

Testing Beeman Chief Valve Screws to Failure- SECOND VIDEO added reply #42

I’ve not run the .177 Chief over 2K, even with the new retention screws...for me, the 2K fill was one of the reasons I bought the rifle.

2K works for me also.  I was just wondering about the safety factor on the Chief II.  I have seen a lot of poor designs in my life. 

[Ribbonstone]

  Best guess tune for the 2K single shot .177 “Chief” version….but it took awhile to get there and it’s not greatly efficient.
DSCN1852 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

Being  unregulated “hunting guns” (rather than bench guns) generally just count all the shots that stay inside of 4%….could likely use 5% 6% if the range is short, I just got use to using 4%..
And the best guess the for the .22 version of the 2K Chief….which is slow for a .22
DSCN2924 by Robert Dean, on Flickr
Could go a whole lot faster (even at 2K)….but a whole lot fewer shots….or a whole lot slower, but not a proportional increase in energy….just where the issue 2K Chief ended up.
Am thinking, a Chief II plus...as an unregulated 136cc PCP, with a 3K fill…assuming the same “guts” …..would very likely balance out with HIGHER energy, but likely about the same shot count

UNFORTUNATELY.,...through wear and tear,  some ill advised mods,  and the lack of factory spare parts….it’s now ONE functioning Chief. 

Turned cannibal and scavenged one to keep others running…..but do have a full Chief “upper” (barrel/breech/mags) and that will “top swap” with the lower (stock/air tube/valve/etc.).

But am now thinking I should “steal” the 5mm co2 conversion QB “upper” and give that a try on the 2K PCP lower...and/or steal the 3K PCP QB .25 upper and give that a try on the Chief’s 2K lower.

It’s not mods….just “top swapping”.

[wll2506]

Excited about going out tomorrow with the 17gr .177 cal Griffin slugs in hand. I hope 17gr slugs stabilize in this gun as I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a Corbin swaging airgun kit.

The adjustment power wheel is marked to I can get back to zero, I hope the 17gr slugs get up to speed without over a full twist on the wheel. I know I will lose shot count, it will be interesting to see how many ?

I estimated another 10% in BC with the extra weight compared to the 15gr slugs I was using ... so that gives me now about a ~.082 BC. Muzzle at ~775 fps (22.7fpe) and ~ 691 fps (18fpe) at 75 yards --- Great !

Gun is pumped up to 2950 psi, I'm excited. Hope the Starlings are out;- )

wll

[wll2506]

Went this am C II + in hand and started to test the Griffin 17gr 177 cal slugs, cup base, started at 3000 psi and ran down to 2000psi where it started to nose dive.

Turned up Power Wheel 180° (one half turn), velocity started in at 742 fps and rose to a high of 776, for a total of 35 shots and an average of 757 ---- I can live with that ------ what I CAN'T live with is the horrible accuracy of this 17gr slug in this barrel. The slugs fly true and straight at my 43 long yard setting although accuracy was way sub par, sighting in at 26 yards at my painted sight in plate gave ~2 1/2+ inch groups --- at 45.5 lasered yards I would miss a 4" steel pole and when hit the group would be ~ +5", I have never encountered anything THIS bad before. All shots were shooting straight and I did not see any wobbling of the slugs in flight with my 12x scope. All shots were using a sandbag rest on my car window !!

Opening 26 yard test shots below, first ones fired at center hole, (high shot was very first shot with this ammo at 6:30 this am) --- right target 2 shot group after windage adjustment.



These slugs are undersized for my bore as they go in without the slightest resistance, they measured on a CALIPER (My micrometer battery was dead) .177 - My NSA slugs measure .178 ---- and I think that is the difference. I may try to flatten the bases on some for testing tomorrow. The NSA slugs were very accurate BTW ;- )

I do like the fact that these slugs arrive at my intended targets right now and with serious oomph ! I do love that !

For best velocity consistency so far with this gun 2850 psi to around 2100 psi, giving around 25 high velocity and ~ consistent shots. I can live with that, although at the distance that I normally shoot (40 yards and under), a few fps variance means little and I would rather have the higher shot count.

The 15gr NSA slugs gave more shots but power wheel was turned down, can't get something for nothing !

---------

3 hrs Later !

Just got my micrometer, NSA = .17785, GRIFFIN = .17734

I think that could be the reason accuracy is not up to par !

wll

[OTmachine]

Just got my micrometer, NSA = .17785, GRIFFIN = .17734

I think that could be the reason accuracy is not up to par !

wll

Can I ask what kind of mic that you have that reads in 5 decimal places, i.e. 1/100 of .001 inch?   I can understand one half a thousandth.  What I am trying to say is that you can only read out accurately to 4 decimal places.  Any more than that is PFM and not to bother with.