Help with 1st PCP and Pump

[Marc]

So I think a PCP and hand pump are in my future.  A little help choosing please?

Mostly target shooting, and short range on any game, so don't need a lot of power.  My thought was if I could do something in the 10 FPE range I could get more shots with less pumping - does that sound right?

The Benjamin Fortitude and Marauder pistol are top of the list.  I like the power adjustment on the Fortitude, but I hear the trigger on the P-Rod is much better.

And on the pump - I don't mind spending a little more if it makes pumping easier.  Any thoughts?  I even thought a P-Rod with power adjusted down a little for more shots may be really nice.

[Hangtown-Shooter]

I think the Fortitude would be an excellent choice for a hand-pump-friendly rifle.

The cheap hand pumps have come a long way over the last few years and bang for buck I don’t think you are getting much more for your investment by spending 400% + more for “name brand” versions (which are also made in China just like the $50 versions?)

[ranchibi]

Marc, I can only comment on the PRod. I got one last year on Black Friday of last year for 230, well worth every cent. It has a small 50cc reservoir so it will be very easy to hand pump and they are accurate out to close to 40yds. Great guns as there are many after market accessories for it including a RAI stock adapter, bottle conversions, regulators, power upgrades. There was one on the AGN classifieds, a Woods Walker edition with stock adapter, stock, Huma regulator maybe scope and rings for 525 if I remember correctly. Awesome little carbines.

[Nomadic Pirate]

That is an excellent plan, a low power PCP will give you a ton of shots and fun,....buy with confidence any 50 bucks pump on Amazon or any other vendor.

[Ribbonstone]

Fortitude does seem like it would be adaptable to that low power out put…likely better for that use than trying to hot-rod one.  Noit a whole lot of information here about adjusting one down in power....most posters are more of the tuning up than tuning down philosophy.

Yep...trigger is often kind of stiff and creepy.  After a few hundred shots, usually lightens up a bit, but still creepy.. 

Not a hard trigger job (it’s been outlined on line many many times….it’s a trigger unit they’ve been using for +20 years on 2260’s, Discovery, Maximus airguns.

Not sure what Crosmans reaction to a modded trigger showing up for warranted repair….pretty good “void” if they feel like it.

[Marc]

Just wondering - anyone know where the Hill pumps are made?  I read a few good reviews that made them sound like they were easier to fill with than others.  But I have no experience.

I like to buy from reputable places - do any vendors carry the low cost pumps or just Amazon?

And does the Fortitude being regulated mean I can turn it's power down easily?  That's what it sounds like.  I'd love to be able to run it at 10 FPE.  I grew up hunting with an old metal 880 - so 10 FPE is like a 50 cal compared to that!

[fatmike]

I dont think the new hill pumps are as good as the older ones and the price compared to an amazon pump is too much. I have an old mk2 hill that I really like but my chinese pump seems easier to pump. With the guns you will get many more shots out of a fortitude vs a p rod. I'm a crosman fan though so either will get you started.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Just wondering - anyone know where the Hill pumps are made?  I read a few good reviews that made them sound like they were easier to fill with than others.  But I have no experience.

I like to buy from reputable places - do any vendors carry the low cost pumps or just Amazon?

And does the Fortitude being regulated mean I can turn it's power down easily?  That's what it sounds like.  I'd love to be able to run it at 10 FPE.  I grew up hunting with an old metal 880 - so 10 FPE is like a 50 cal compared to that!

I had 8 Hill pumps in the last dozen years, I would never again buy one compared to the current crop of 50 bucks Chinese pumps

[Marc]

I try to avoid China stuff as much as possible.  Are there any pumps not made in China?

[Nomadic Pirate]

I try to avoid China stuff as much as possible.  Are there any pumps not made in China?

Big Mistake, the China pumps are the best and cheapest out there,.....but hey if you wanna spend more and get a lesser product because you wanna stay away from China stuff knock yourself out,...and good luck

And btw, the crosman guns you looking at are pretty much a China gun

[Nomadic Pirate]

And having said that

I would go more towards China guns like DAR and Avenger, from reviews far superior to the Crosman offerings in many respects.

[Bentong]

I got a China stuff pump I bought in 2016 and acquired 2 other Chinese pumps for spares when the price went irresistible. I am still using the 2016 pump filling my 6 pcps/hpa's air rifles.

[bduares]

The Umarex Origin comes with a pump, is very accurate, and has a pressurized tank system on board to keep the pressure even shot after shot. 40-60 shots per fill. 113 pumps from empty to full and 13 pumps from empty to being able to take a shot. Throw an UTG Bugbuster on it and it could easily punch pellets through a dime sized hole at 50 yards all day. I can't praise mine enough, though the pump did need to be opened up, cleaned, lubed and have new o-rings put on (from the included repair kit) because it came from the factory with gunk in it. It's also about the world's easiest PCP hand pump to work on and learn to rebuild.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Marc, What is your budget?

[Marc]

I would like to stay under $400 if possible - but have a little wiggle room too.

[avator]

If it were me, I would go with a GAMO Urban and a Chinese hand pump.
I know, I know.... mags are expensive..... Dudes, he's gonna hand pump.. how fast is he wanting to blow through shots?
Take your time, reload between mags. Enjoy shooting instead of dreading hand pumping.
Also, one mag is plenty for the average hunt.
1 small screw replacement makes a world of difference in the trigger. no need to even remove the stock. Get the screw at the local hardware store.
Oh, and that big pickle on the end that everyone complains about?  It don't bother me a bit... never heard one squirrel complain either... 

[Ribbonstone]

Going back to the original post….some airguns just don’t easily adjust DOWN to the 10 foot pound level.  Often need to get inside and change a few things rather than just turn provided adjustments. 

Other airguns actually do make good low power adjusting pretty easy.

Do a good bit of that, and I take it as seriously as tuning a rifle UP in power.  Want the best I can get at low power as much as a hot-rodder wants the same in the other direction.

Besides being a .22 only rifle, my Urban’s adjustments just doesn’t much care for going under about  16 foot pounds.  Get about the same number of shots when it’s at 20-21 foot pounds, it just moves the pressure range down but doesn’t change the 4% shot count much. 

Past some point, the slow moving striker (from cranking down the striker spring) increases the velocity variation, and velocity gets into a hi-lo, saw tooth type graph (and sucky accuracy).

Likely with a strangled off the transfer port...which is what I suspect they do for the sub-12 foot pound versions.

Likely not any PCP that can’t be made into a  great low power shooter...one that can do it from just turning  a few provided screws isn’t that common.

Keeping the $400 target in mind….would need to be (without scope) a pump and a rifle...which limits things a bit.  Urban would meet the $, but not easily meed the low power with just simple adjustments.

I do like the low cost PCP’s..own more than my fair share...but if serious about the low speed/energy (like 10-12 foot pounds)  I’d likely look to the .177 rifles that start out at reasonably low power (sub 20 foot pounds) and have at least basic screw adjustments.

[Mr.P]

I would like to stay under $400 if possible - but have a little wiggle room too.

Yeah good luck hitting that point if you feel like buying only American made.  I understand where you're coming from but I actually like the idea of supporting this industry and the people who make it happen, regardless of where those who are supporting me and whose efforts are making my lifestyle possible happen to have been born.

So if you can get over your issues with China the Artemis PP 700 is a great little gun for well within your budget and shoots like something much more expensive.  You could get it and a pump for $300.  You can buy all kinds of parts - different barrels, regulator, etc. great little gun can shoot lots of low power shots and be pushed up to 15 fpe or so. 

My airforce guns are American made (I guess) but German barrel and the bottle must be from China.  So assembled in America I guess.

[Ribbonstone]

Don’t normally think of the PP700 as a rifle...certainly could be made into a stocked carbine and has all the supplied adjustments to just turn screws rather than go inside and mod things.

Factory regulated rifles have been easier to adjust down.   If you just ignore the regulation part for now, it’s a tiny volume non-regulated type tune, it just “magically” refills itself after each shot. 

Rather than attempting to adjust a big volume of 3K air for low speeds, are adjusting a little volume of  lower pressure to shoot slow...which turns out to be simpler.

(Again...using “adjust” to be just turning the screws they provided…a mod would be adding  or changing parts.)

[Hoosier Daddy]

Is the Disco still made?
I ALWAYS suggest a Maximus for a first PCP but I think they are being phased out in favor of the Fortitude.

The QB Chief is touch and go.

A new model from Benjamin is the Cayden from their "Craftsman Collection", with the AGNATION discount code is $449.99... HECK of a lot of gun for the money.
5 Year Warranty from a company that has been around forever.



I bought the Kratos and it has proven to be JAW DROPPING accurate!

The Artemis M11 MK2 .22 has a good following at $342.52 from https://airgunarcheryfun.ca