FX Independence, need HELP !

[Poor Ballistics]

I bought this gun for experimentation with the arrow barrel,  and then stored it in the safe for 3 years, and recently decided to sell it. 

Well,  after 3 years it still had the 120 bar in the ity bity tank that I had left in it. Absolutely no Leaking!

I pumped it up to 162 bar, the sweet spot,  and was getting 900 fps with the JSB  44.6 gr,  (80 ft lbs)    10 pumps to get back to 162 bar after each shot.  (oh yeah, forgot to mention, this is the .30 cal,  which has no regulator, maybe all of the  Indy's and Independent's have no regulator no matter what caliber?)

I emptied out all of the air by dry firing after it was down to 40 bar or so.  (I am not sure why I was even wanting to get to Zero!)  Then, when I tried to pump back up, the pressure stays at Zero.   After a bit of research,  I found out I had done something very stupid,  and as soon as I read that you should never empty out the tank by dry firing,  I smacked myself hard,  for I USED TO KNOW THAT!

I have done my best searching, but all I could find is the AOA pump rebuild video,  and I think I may need to get into the block.  I want to fix it of course, but also it will be interesting to see if there is any rust inside.  There has always been the concern about   moisture from the onboard pump, same as the controversy over using a pump instead of a scuba or SCBA  tank fill.   

So is there a doctor in the house!

[Madd Hatter]

Did you try just cocking the rifle and then pump to see if it will hold? Sometimes the HS will be holding the poppet valve open and with the low volume of the built in pump won't be able to over come the slight leak. I'm also sure there's got to be a way of filling it from a tank. By the way, I have never had any FX rifles so take my advice with how much it cost. lol

[Glem Chally]

Probably bent the valve by shooting it down so low.  Never dry fire these guns empty (or near it)   The gun needs the back pressure of the air to cushion the hammer blow, no cushion = smashing.
Can probably just slowly unscrew the gauge until it starts to hiss to bleed off the pressure.

Heres the link to the schematic,  looks very similar to the royale block if not the same.  Just click on the independence and itll download the drawing. 

https://fxairguns.com/support/

I'd finish degassing it, then remove part 25 in the top drawing and with it the valve should come with.   Good news is I'm sure fxusa will have these parts on hand.  Hopefully the valve seat is ok as they're tricky to get out.  The valve stem is easy to replace and cheap.

PM me if you like I can email you pictures of where that is on the gun if you're not sure.

[Poor Ballistics]

Glem,

Thanks for the info.  I had looked at the Schematic prior to my call out for help,  was hoping  for a  step by step  video of a rebuild of a similar FX trigger block, if not the exact same.     The Royal has the same basic trigger block?

I will take a look to see what part 25 is, thanks for that tip.   

Mad hatter mentioned cocking it and see if that does something, will try that as well.

Mark

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

A little lack of knowledge can go a long way.
That's where this reply is coming from
Every time I read of this issue on the forums the most common advice that seems to work often is to try filling directly from a tank; giving the gun a strong initial blast of air.
Some say go right right up to the max fill pressure
Some methods suggest filling with the gun cocked & others with the gun not cocked.

My inexperience also leads me to think this a good step before disassembling the gun.

If you do need to take the gun apart, Glem Chally's  offer of assistance is priceless

Good luck

Ed

[Glem Chally]

FX have a free floating hammer so I dont think cocking it will help.

What you can do is tape a bag or rubber glove over the end of the barrel and try to air it up.  If it inflates it's most certainly at the valve/valve seat. 
 
Tried adding a picture, I'm not doing the rigamarole of sizing it.  It's part D24 on the schematic.   That link/independance.

"Valvepin complete" might be bent, part d24 holds it and when you pull it out valve pin will come with.

The top half of the block looks the same as royale but lower is different, tube vs bottle gun.  Valve assembly is the same as the royale. 

[Poor Ballistics]

Thanks all who have advised. 

Glem,

I am a pretty good with tools, have worked on springers for decades, and am curious to see if the internals are rusted, so would not mind taking the trigger block apart, even the parts that do not need taking apart just to see how this thing works.  Partly to assure the next owner that everything is ship shape, and also maybe I will just end up keeping it. 

I am in no rush,  maybe a video will turn up that has step by step instructions of how to do it.  I will try to find out what FX gun has the same or closely the same trigger block.

If I mess things up, I can always ship the block to FX service or some other pro. I am just down the road a bit from you across the border,  if you are down this way.........

[Glem Chally]

Haha tempting it is beautiful down there!

I have this video shows how to remove barrel, trigger assembly, cocking assembly, hammer and spring.



Really all that's left is the valve assembly (comes out with a 5mm opposite the hammer)   and cylinder and associated parts. 

Valve assembly should be identical to this.



Fx indy complete rebuild, not sure how similar they are.

[Poor Ballistics]

Glem,
 
Thanks much for all of the  links and advice.  Prior to receiving your latest post, I loaded two pellets, and pumped a few fast pumps, air leaking somewhere in the block.

Luckily,  I  had ordered pump and block rebuild kits from FX's new (at the time) US service center, this was just after their rift with AOA.  I just took them out, and the bag for the block says on the bag "Service kit for FX Royale 400 Complete with detailed drawing"

I just did a search, apparently the 400 was unregulated as well.

I thought I had just ordered the pump rebuild kit, forgot I even ordered the block rebuild.  It even has the part I  bent dry firing?,  a valve pin, and valve seat ?

I had taken the pump completely apart soon after I bought it, cleaned everything and re-lubed with molycoat 44 on the rubber, and Moly paste on the metal to metal parts,  made for much smoother pumping.   

The Independence is on the workbench as I am writing, awaiting dissection with the help from those video's you sent. Will report back on the results.

[Glem Chally]

Glem,
 
Thanks much for all of the  links and advice.  Prior to receiving your latest post, I loaded two pellets, and pumped a few fast pumps, air leaking somewhere in the block.

Luckily,  I  had ordered pump and block rebuild kits from FX's new (at the time) US service center, this was just after their rift with AOA.  I just took them out, and the bag for the block says on the bag "Service kit for FX Royale 400 Complete with detailed drawing"

I just did a search, apparently the 400 was unregulated as well.

I thought I had just ordered the pump rebuild kit, forgot I even ordered the block rebuild.  It even has the part I  bent dry firing?,  a valve pin, and valve seat ?

I had taken the pump completely apart soon after I bought it, cleaned everything and re-lubed with molycoat 44 on the rubber, and Moly paste on the metal to metal parts,  made for much smoother pumping.   

The Independence is on the workbench as I am writing, awaiting dissection with the help from those video's you sent. Will report back on the results.

Yeah the early Royales were unregulated I had a later 500 that was regulated and swapped everything into a Boss block.  Keep us updated👍

[Poor Ballistics]

Glem,

Update:   I disassembled the block completely, everything except the safety toggle arm.

None of the aluminum parts or the block  had any corrosion, and the steel parts had no rust except a slight amount on the hammer spring guide in the area enclosed by the aluminum cap, but it is a non moving part.  There was no gunk build up of any kind, though there is a part on the Independence that the Royale does not have, part H.  Not sure what it does,  and on the FX website, the schematic does not give a name to part H. Here are the bits that make up part H:

O-ring 7,66 x 1,78 NBR 70
Seat over pressure valve
O-ring 1,78x1,78 NBR 70
Housing over pressure valve Piston over pressure valve
Spring 1,75x17x6,75
Lid over pressure valve


Part H2,  "seat over pressure valve" has a very small hole, and it was clogged with grease.

Other than that, perfect,  even the valve pin and valve seat look good to my eye, but later I will dial indicate it to make sure.

I could always get my head around a spring and piston gun, but this thing is way to subtle and nuanced for me to figure out, I wish FX would explain what all the parts are for, what they are doing.

My memory was faulty, I found my original invoice from AOA, I had ordered the rebuild kits from them.  The Independence is not exactly the same as the  Royale 400,  and that is what AOA sent me.  I will be contacting FX USA to find out if I need to order a new rebuild kit.

One drawback of this gun is the self pumping does not have a filter for the incoming air, and I would think that for those that shot many thousands of self pumped rounds,  that dust / grit would cause problems.

[Poor Ballistics]

After spending some time peering inside the block with a  bright light,  I now understand how this thing works.   I was able to put back together no problem. It still leaks, but  I did not instal any new seals. I am a bit  ticked with AOA,  the 400 Royale rebuild kit is not completely compatible for the Independence,   the 400 valve pin seat has a  smaller diameter, and no O-rings for part H.  So I will be ordering the proper kit.

Part H,  after I thought about it for a couple of minutes, and taking it apart, is just a pressure relief valve,  no doubt because of the low effort required  to pump it, even at high pressure, it would be easy for someone not paying attention to keep on pumping with serious bad stuff happening.  Nothing like this on the Royale,  I guess there must be some kind of relief valve on the air bottles.

The trigger on this thing is incredibly simple compared to a FWB, Diana,  and HW spring and piston guns I am used to.  No doubt holding  back a PCP hammer spring makes for a less complex design.