An Overview of PCP Charging Options???

[kudzu]

Can anyone point me to a good overview of the various PCP charging options? From reading this forum and searching as best I can, I have read bits and pieces about high pressure nitrogen tanks, cascading standard SCUBA tanks, 4500 psi SCBA tanks, piggy-backing a Shoebox compressor on a standard shop compressor...

I don't mind digging, but I am not confident that I am getting the big picture and that I understand the pro's and con's of the various possibilities. Any help or direction will be appreciated.

Taking the PCP plunge is still some ways off but I am interested and when I do it, I want to do it in a way that will be both satisfactory and  convenient.

[dkwflight]

Hi
You did not mention the hand pumps and the booster pumps. You got it pretty well covered except for the FX rifle with an on board hand pump.

What it really depends on is your wallet and how much you want to shoot.
If you only shoot a few shots occasionally the hand pump will do.

Some bench rest shooters keep their tanks hooked up on the bench so they can get back to the same pressure for each shot.

[kudzu]

Hi
You did not mention the hand pumps and the booster pumps. You got it pretty well covered except for the FX rifle with an on board hand pump.

What it really depends on is your wallet and how much you want to shoot.
If you only shoot a few shots occasionally the hand pump will do.

Some bench rest shooters keep their tanks hooked up on the bench so they can get back to the same pressure for each shot.

Thanks for your input.

I shoot a fair amount and am LAZY and impatient - hand pumping is not for me.

Cost is a consideration but not the over-riding consideration. I will invest in a set-up that makes sense to me. A big commercial compressor set-up is not in the cards, but I might spring for a large high pressure nitrogen tank and a portable carbon fiber SCBA tank or something those lines.

[RatRacer]

Availability comes into play also.
Some areas have dive shops that won't pump past 3 or 3.5K psi to fill tanks, or their firehouses won't fill public tanks, so a compressor may be needed to make the most of what you have. You need to research your areas fill offerings.

An empty tank with no place to fill it is worse than a hand pump.

[RayK]

Ideally, your tank pressure should be much higher than your maximum gun pressure.  So if your gun can be charged to 3000 psi, a 3000 psi scuba tank is not going to work well for you.  And larger tank volume is better than smaller tank volume.  You pay a fixed price for a fill and the larger tank and higher pressure tank will give you the most fills for your money.

The best setup I've seen is the 4500 psi SCBA tanks, but you need to have a place that can fill them for you, or you need your own compressor.  There is a sports/dive shop chain in Southern California (where I live) that has many stores and fills to 4500 psi for $5 per tank fill - no matter what the size or pressure of the tank.

The shoebox compressor is not too expensive, but it takes a very long time to refill a tank.  Compressors that can fill a 4500 psi tank quickly cost three to five thousand dollars.

I use a high pressure steel scuba tank that can be filled to 3500 psi. It works fine, but is very heavy and does not give as many fills as the 4500 psi SCBA tanks.

The fill lines (and even the regulator) come from Joe Brancato www.AirTanksForSale.com.  He has the quality stuff.  He has the SCBA tanks too - both new and used.

It is all about cost:  4500 tanks are more than 3500 which are more than 3000 aluminum scuba tanks.

I'm with you about the pumping.  It isn't for me.  Air tanks are the way to go if you can afford the extra cost.

I do have a 19 cubic foot aluminum pony tank that has a max pressure of 3000 psi.  This is useful when shooting teathered or for fills on my P-rod which shoots well at lower air pressures (like 2800 to 1500).

Ray

[rsterne]

That's a good overview.... I will add that the big 6000 psi Nitrogen tanks used for welding should really be used with a regulator to drop the pressure to what your gun is rated for (usually 3000 psi) for safety.... Those regulators and gauges can run $500.... and you usually have to lease the tank (yearly).... They are also very big and heavy....

Bob

[SAADE]

kudzu...isn't that the voraciously growing weed/ground-cover down in the south, like SC and Georgia?

You have great advice here also, shop critically for any SCBA tanks. Steel is the most bullet-proof but heavy,
carbon-fiber over aluminum is light and strong but...impact resistance not as great as steel.

Big Nitrogen tanks are great but, check the fine print of the rental agreemnt to be sure you aren't paying too much for tank rental (also called demurage fees) AND... you need a high pressure regulator to tone down the 6ksi pressure in a nitrogen tank, be careful.

[kudzu]

Availability comes into play also.
Some areas have dive shops that won't pump past 3 or 3.5K psi to fill tanks, or their firehouses won't fill public tanks, so a compressor may be needed to make the most of what you have. You need to research your areas fill offerings.

An empty tank with no place to fill it is worse than a hand pump.

Good points. I haven't checked locally, yet, since actually doing anything is some ways off. I guess bothering local dive shops and welder supply businesses has to be my next step.

[kudzu]

...The best setup I've seen is the 4500 psi SCBA tanks...

...The shoebox compressor is not too expensive, but it takes a very long time to refill a tank...

...The fill lines (and even the regulator) come from Joe Brancato www.AirTanksForSale.com...

Thanks, Ray - lot's of good info!

[kudzu]

That's a good overview.... I will add that the big 6000 psi Nitrogen tanks used for welding should really be used with a regulator to drop the pressure to what your gun is rated for (usually 3000 psi) for safety.... Those regulators and gauges can run $500.... and you usually have to lease the tank (yearly).... They are also very big and heavy....

Bob

Bob, I think it was one of your posts that first brought the idea of using a 6000 psi nitrogen tank to my attention. That, coupled with a small lightweight portable tank, seems to me to be about the ideal set-up.

Searching online, I have not found a local vendor that indicates availability of more than 4500 psi nitrogen; though, I guess a large 4500 psi tank would also serve the purpose. Not having spoken with anyone yet, I don't even know if they will deal with me as an individual or an account that would have such a relatively low consumption.

All ideas and comments are appreciated.

[aack73]

 but I might spring for a large high pressure nitrogen tank and a portable carbon fiber SCBA tank or something those lines.
[/quote]

that would be the best setup i could think of. 6kpsi nitrogen with a portable scba tank and like Bob said you need a regulator on the 6k psi nitrogen tank. this isn't the cheapest way out by any means but will give you the cleanest "air" , the fastest fills and those 6k tanks last a long long long time. i have yet to have to refill mine. even refilling a larger portable tank it's still going. if do go that route just know those tanks are referred to as 6k psi tanks but typically come filled to about 5500 psi. the tank itself is fairly inexpensive to lease but the regulator is the real expense. but once you buy 1 you will be able to use it for years.

i will second the large and heavy, hence why you need a portable scba tank. you will need hand trucks to move it by yourself and its still too much for even 2 grown men to pick up. several hundred lbs. definitely want to leave it put when it gets to where it needs to go.

[ronbeaux]

Another option to consider is to rent some tanks when you know you will be shooting a lot. I rented two tanks filled to 3400 from the Dive shop for $18.50 and they let me keep it for 4 days. They said it always depends on what they have going on such as classes and dive trips but usually they have a few on hand to rent. This worked for me since I also had them fill my tank which gave me three to work with and I estimate about 20 fills to 3000 on the DAQ for testing groups. I turned them in with 2950 still left in them and used my personal tank for my other PCP that isn't too picky as long as it is above 2000.

[rsterne]

I think the local welding shop here supplies their Nitrogen tanks filled to 5000 psi.... Their annual rental is over $200, and a fill is over $75.... A regulator and gauge was over $500.... They would charge extra to deliver the tank (too big for my vehicle).... I couldn't justify the expense.... I bought a ShoeBox compressor instead.... over 75 hours on it with no significant problems so far.... mostly topping off an 80 CF SCUBA tank to 3000 psi....

Bob

[Dick Tracey]

I have not seen it mentioned here but as a safety concern the large tanks do need to be secured to wall, bench etc.  If one of these falls it could be fatal.  It also would be wise to make a shroud or guard to protect the regulator/valve.  When transporting any tank it needs to be fixed so it will not roll around or slide. Again the valve/regulator is the most crucial part.

[dkwflight]

Hi Recently there was an explosion of a scuba tank.
The point is a "Visual" inspection is not good enough.
Have them hydro'd properly. I know it costs $ but better safe than.....

[aack73]

I have not seen it mentioned here but as a safety concern the large tanks do need to be secured to wall, bench etc.  If one of these falls it could be fatal.  It also would be wise to make a shroud or guard to protect the regulator/valve.  When transporting any tank it needs to be fixed so it will not roll around or slide. Again the valve/regulator is the most crucial part.

i just take the regulator off when transporting and screw the cover over the valve for safety. and yes it's heavy. securing it would be wise.

 my local welding supply charged me $150 yearly and $85 for refill. i built my regulator for less than $200. i got a deal on the regulator from a local paintball shop. the cheapest i've found regulators for otherwise is $400. they aint cheap. they yearly fee and refill rate $ will vary. i've heard lots of different deals depending on where your at. good luck either way you go. lets us know what you decide.

[Rico14]

...The best setup I've seen is the 4500 psi SCBA tanks...

...The shoebox compressor is not too expensive, but it takes a very long time to refill a tank...

...The fill lines (and even the regulator) come from Joe Brancato www.AirTanksForSale.com...

Thanks, Ray - lot's of good info!

I agree, the shoebox compressor is the way to go. No more driving to get your tank filled. Mine should arrive within two weeks. If you get a shoebox, go to the dive shop and have them fill your tank as far as they can, usually 3000 psi. Then use the shoebox to fill it all the way to 4500. After that, you will only topping off your tank from the shoebox, not filling it all the way.

[roachcreek]

I use a Shoebox, which has to be used in tandom with a 6 gal 6 HP shop compressor, to fill 3 44cf scba bottles.

 

The 3 scba bottles are cascaded and I fill directly to the rifle I am using or to a 69ci Pygmy bottle.

I also tether with both the 3 44 cf cascaded bottles or with the Pygmy bottle, mostly with a scuba regulator attached.




When in the field and using my Ranger 45 which takes a 4500 PSI fill, when my 3 cascaded bottles get too low to efficiently fill the Ranger, I hook them up to a Booster pump, it will take air at 3000 PSI or less and ram pump it to 4500 PSI to fill either the pygme tank or directlyu to the Ranger 45

[ronbeaux]

Sweet setup!

All I need is enough air to find what groups the best from mine so I still throw out the option of renting some bottles. Once you find the right slug all you need to do is have a bottle ready to go so you can charge it up and go hunting.

I can do this a whole lot of times before I pay for a shoe box or HP 4500 tanks.

My other guns don't require that much air so it works for me and should be considered. Of course my hunting gun likes 3000 not more.

Plinking or competing is another story.

[roachcreek]

Another option is to rent a large Nitrogen bottle.  They fill to 6000PSI and while heavy and cost about $125.00 to rent for a year, you also get about a years worth of air from them.

I only have three PCP air rifles, but it seems I end up using close to 1500 PSI out of one of my 44 cf bottles per of shooting per day.  So I run the Shoebox a minum of 3 hours per day.

Shooting 30 shots and filling only to 3000 PSI for Round Ball in my Ranger 45 used 1500 PSI from one of my 44 cf bottles yesterday alone. When I am filling to 4100 PSI I only get 2 shots per fill with the Ranger 45, but I get 625 to 640 FPE per shot.

My Condor 25 using 52 grain cast bullets only gives me about 12 shots over 990 to 1024 FPS, and it is an airhog too.

My little AA S410 carbine is a air miser compared to those two air hogs and could be serviced with either a HIll or FX pump.

I started out with AirForce pumps, I went thru three pumps in as many days, I got a refund and bought a scuba tank and then another and then built a cascade system for them, but with 3000 PSI fills in the Condor, I had to fill that scuba tank at the Dive shop often.

I like being independent, that is why I have a Shoebox and I cast my own bullets for my airguns.