Another R9/HW95 caliber choice thread

[Denby95]

Looks like AOA has the diana 340 N-Tech in .22 caliber with a synthetic stock.

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/gas-ram-rifles/diana-model-340-n-tec-panther-.22/

Another idea is the Diana EMS 34. Its Diana's new model 34 that is modular. It comes as a standard 34 essentially but allows for all sorts of modular customization like the addition of a gas ram instead of the spring, or easy changing of barrel calibers, etc. It's purposely made to allow plug and play type changes. The 34 and hw95 are pretty similiar for power levels.

[Arch_E]

Robert,

If I may...

provide a little background (from only recently getting back into pellet rifles).

I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III. The first (I) is the lower powered airguns, shooting under 12 fpe. My HW30 (R7) shoots at about 7 fpe. The Brits, along with numerous others, have limited pellet rifles to 12 fpe. Though you can tune spring coils and PCP to 12 fpe, there's really no need (beyond government controls). It's amazing what guns shooting <12 fpe can do. In two years, I've eradicated over 200 squirrels from my yard--all with .177 (not trying to influence you) at less than 30 yards (though I've hit five at 35 yards).

Category II is the intermediate power domain, shooting from 13-24 (or 30) fpe. I typically view this as where the springers begin losing ability to PCPs, since the springers have to weigh more to counteract the vibration for slinging heavier, if not faster fps pellets/slugs. From reading, many guns don't have the umph to shoot slugs well if they're in this domain. Though I have several springers that can shoot 16-19 fpe, I typically only shoot them from a rest (due to weight).  They are good guns, and I believe that with practice, I could be making occasional 75+ yard shots. OTOH, I would buy a  PCP in a minute, if that distance was what I wanted. Hence, the yards targeted, along with the pellet weight and the goal of shooting (plinking vs. pest control) become major considerations. if I were buying a rifle for 24-30 fpe, I'd definitely become a PCP shooter, and probably move on up to a .25 or .30 platform--that's the III category for me.

Cat III, in my vocabulary, is for the heavy hitters (over 30 fpe). I'm guessing that some .22 rifles are capable of that with the right weighted pellet; but the higher calibers virtually own this domain. Again, this is PCP territory.

So, as other above have communicated--decide what distance you might shoot, the intended target, and then the physical constraints that you may have (holding an 11 lb air rifle with scope). Then buy the platform that best suits your need. Those of us using and recommending the .177 are more than likely shooting lesser distances and smaller pests. So, the love for a caliber is totally in the eyes of the beholder. If I started over again, I might have bought both .22 and .177; but, in my context, I don't need or want any more power.

have fun and be safe,

Archie

[Mark 611]

I shot some 13.73gn JSB's from my 50 in 20cal, I zeroed the same distance as the 11.42gn FTT's and at 35yds it took a mill dot of hold over to get the 13.73's to the same impact point, I zero at 23yds, and at 35yds the FTT's are still dead on at that distance!

[airrob]

Should I buy the FTT's then?  I had ordered the JSB's but could change it.

[Hobbyman2007]

I’d buy a few tins from different suppliers to see which is the most accurate with your rifle. Once you find the best pellet. Buy a ton of them.

[airgunbuff]

Robert,

If I may...

provide a little background (from only recently getting back into pellet rifles).

I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III. The first (I) is the lower powered airguns, shooting under 12 fpe. My HW30 (R7) shoots at about 7 fpe. The Brits, along with numerous others, have limited pellet rifles to 12 fpe. Though you can tune spring coils and PCP to 12 fpe, there's really no need (beyond government controls). It's amazing what guns shooting <12 fpe can do. In two years, I've eradicated over 200 squirrels from my yard--all with .177 (not trying to influence you) at less than 30 yards (though I've hit five at 35 yards).

Category II is the intermediate power domain, shooting from 13-24 (or 30) fpe. I typically view this as where the springers begin losing ability to PCPs, since the springers have to weigh more to counteract the vibration for slinging heavier, if not faster fps pellets/slugs. From reading, many guns don't have the umph to shoot slugs well if they're in this domain. Though I have several springers that can shoot 16-19 fpe, I typically only shoot them from a rest (due to weight).  They are good guns, and I believe that with practice, I could be making occasional 75+ yard shots. OTOH, I would buy a  PCP in a minute, if that distance was what I wanted. Hence, the yards targeted, along with the pellet weight and the goal of shooting (plinking vs. pest control) become major considerations. if I were buying a rifle for 24-30 fpe, I'd definitely become a PCP shooter, and probably move on up to a .25 or .30 platform--that's the III category for me.

Cat III, in my vocabulary, is for the heavy hitters (over 30 fpe). I'm guessing that some .22 rifles are capable of that with the right weighted pellet; but the higher calibers virtually own this domain. Again, this is PCP territory.

So, as other above have communicated--decide what distance you might shoot, the intended target, and then the physical constraints that you may have (holding an 11 lb air rifle with scope). Then buy the platform that best suits your need. Those of us using and recommending the .177 are more than likely shooting lesser distances and smaller pests. So, the love for a caliber is totally in the eyes of the beholder. If I started over again, I might have bought both .22 and .177; but, in my context, I don't need or want any more power.

have fun and be safe,

Archie

This was a great and informative post !!  Many thanks
kindly
ron

[airrob]

Robert,
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III.

As a "need", I don't fall into any of those categories, but as a "want" I'm around a 1½.  I don't own a pest control company and I assume most here don't either, so for me this is just a hobby.  I never had a BB gun as a kid.  I learned on real guns, so tiny pea shooters (pardon my French) don't excite me.  That said, I am starting with the Beeman R7 as many have recommended, although I'm simply a lot older than those who usually do. 

[Arch_E]

Robert,
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III.

As a "need", I don't fall into any of those categories, but as a "want" I'm around a 1½.  I don't own a pest control company and I assume most here don't either, so for me this is just a hobby.  I never had a BB gun as a kid.  I learned on real guns, so tiny pea shooters (pardon my French) don't excite me.  That said, I am starting with the Beeman R7 as many have recommended, although I'm simply a lot older than those who usually do. 

Well, that's the rub--most of us come here from shotgun and hunting rifles, believing that more power is better. In airguns, I've found out (via using the HW30/R7) that more power in a springer typically yields only more effort to shoot well. If a smaller pellet (7-8gr) shooting at a lower speed (600-700) can be instant lights out at 30-35 yards on a squirrel, what MORE does one need?! Caliber size affects area of damage, not just deadliness. So, aim well enough and the smaller caliber and lower power tools get the job done to the same degree as the more expensive kits. Let me restate this: a .25 caliber slug from a powerful PCP or springer would make an awesome kill shot; but my 6.9gr RWS HP, if placed right, will make the same kill (at shorter distances--under 40 yards typically). Hence, I don't need the $$$ air rifle when a less costly one will suffice.

Now, need is NOT what drives me; so by all means, do buy what you want!!!!!! More importantly, allow us to enable you to buy more, more often, and more expensive--if that's what YOU WANT.

I congratulate you on an excellent first purchase--the R7 (=HW30). That's a terrific little rifle. I'd suggest you get a quality scope ($180-300 range). I did otherwise and have spent more often to achieve less quality. Buy right; buy once!

Archie

[nced]

Robert,
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III.

As a "need", I don't fall into any of those categories, but as a "want" I'm around a 1½.  I don't own a pest control company and I assume most here don't either, so for me this is just a hobby.  I never had a BB gun as a kid.  I learned on real guns, so tiny pea shooters (pardon my French) don't excite me.  That said, I am starting with the Beeman R7 as many have recommended, although I'm simply a lot older than those who usually do. 

Well, that's the rub--most of us come here from shotgun and hunting rifles, believing that more power is better. In airguns, I've found out (via using the HW30/R7) that more power in a springer typically yields only more effort to shoot well. If a smaller pellet (7-8gr) shooting at a lower speed (600-700) can be instant lights out at 30-35 yards on a squirrel, what MORE does one need?! Caliber size affects area of damage, not just deadliness. So, aim well enough and the smaller caliber and lower power tools get the job done to the same degree as the more expensive kits. Let me restate this: a .25 caliber slug from a powerful PCP or springer would make an awesome kill shot; but my 6.9gr RWS HP, if placed right, will make the same kill (at shorter distances--under 40 yards typically). Hence, I don't need the $$$ air rifle when a less costly one will suffice.

Now, need is NOT what drives me; so by all means, do buy what you want!!!!!! More importantly, allow us to enable you to buy more, more often, and more expensive--if that's what YOU WANT.

I congratulate you on an excellent first purchase--the R7 (=HW30). That's a terrific little rifle. I'd suggest you get a quality scope ($180-300 range). I did otherwise and have spent more often to achieve less quality. Buy right; buy once!

Archie

BRAVO, excellent post!!

The only benefit of a .177 HW95 for hunter class field target shooting (and squirrel hunting) vs a .177 HW30 is a flatter trajectory which is more tolerant of "ranging errors" when shooting at distances other than the zero distance.

[airrob]

The only benefit of a .177 HW95 for hunter class field target shooting (and squirrel hunting) vs a .177 HW30 is a flatter trajectory which is more tolerant of "ranging errors" when shooting at distances other than the zero distance.

The significant FPE difference doesn't matter for squirrels?

[nced]

The only benefit of a .177 HW95 for hunter class field target shooting (and squirrel hunting) vs a .177 HW30 is a flatter trajectory which is more tolerant of "ranging errors" when shooting at distances other than the zero distance.

The significant FPE difference doesn't matter for squirrels?

LOL.....in my "powder burner days" I had more than a couple squirrels "double lunged" with a .22 rimfire slug at a bit over 100fpe yet still travel a few feet to get into a tree hole.

When living in West Virginia my brother and hunted squirrels on a trail, taking turns shooting. I was using my .177 R9 and my brother was using his .22 rimfire, however to "be more equal" he was shooting .22 short hollowpoints (about 80fpe me). We stalked a squirrel that was concentrating on a couple walnuts about 20 yards away. It was my brother's turn and with the shot the squirrel jumped about "straight up" and made a mad dash to a walnut tree about 20 yards off the narrow path. I was laughing (thinking the 20 yard offhand shot was a miss) and advised "chuck a rock next time HARdeHARhar". Well, the squirrel started climbing the tree trunk and dropped dead. The squirrel was perfectly double lunged and the exit hole was large enough to fit the end of a finger. When cleaning the squirrels we took that day we noticed that the short hollow point literally took off the top half of the heart. That convinced me even more that piddly 12-14fpe doesn't mean very much. Penetration THROUGH THE VITALS is what's needed. "Through the vitals" on squirrels means through the brain or deflating both lungs. As long as the springer has enough power to do this it's ok, however I do question the ability of the R7/HW30 to do this unless it's a brain shot. Decades ago I owned a tired .177 HW35 that shot RWS SuperDomes at about 650fps and it was reliable on bird feeder wrecking squirrels with head shots but less than reliable with rib shots.

[fwbsport]

I have been one of those using a Winchester 1906 Pump .22 with Federal Hollow points through and through both lungs and even heads.  And that squirrel dances and crawls anywhere else but where it was hit.

Later I got a .22 Tarantula and that rifle killed squirrels FASTER than the .22 Long Rifle Hollow Point because it got DUMPED completely inside the squirrel to anchor it there.  Seen this many many times with .22 LRs v .22 PCPs.

[bReTt]

177 but if you refuse then 22.  Scrub 20

[Mark 611]

I mainly shoot the 13.73gn JSB's from my R1's because they have more power to push them and they tend to give a better shot cycle due to their weight for this size power plant, The 95/97 size power plants fair better with the 11.42gn FTT's they are better suited IMO for this size rifle,

[airgunbuff]

I love reading these post !!  Thanks guys and gals.  It funny thou I have 2 LDs one shoots 22 cal 14 grain Miesters at 580 fps.  Never had a problem dropping squirrls out to 35 yards with either head or lung shots.  That said if my LDs can do it then a HW 30 in 22 can do it too.  Keep in mind these are flat head pellets....
It amazes me what a little 22 14 grain pellet can do at low FPS.. Shot placement is everything.  One reason why pest bolt when hit with a rimfire is most times the bullet pass's clean thru the critter not releasing all of its energy to the body mass.
Rock on guys and a Very Merry Christmas to one and all
kindly
ron

[airgunbuff]

as a side bar !!  Years ago I had Paul Watts build me a custom HW 50 in 22 cal.  I wanted dead calm and smoothness over pure power.  Paul did has ADV tune to the gun which includes buttoning the piston.  All of this in a J.M custom sporter stock, with 2-9 power scope.  This is my favorite squirrel popping rigs.  This rifle is no power house yet it has worn in so very nice and the power has gone up.out to 45 yards and vermin is just toast. eiyj flat head match style pellets.
kindly
ron

[smack6969]

Gotta say that I really like the R9 in .20.  I am very partial to .20 cal and the JSB pellets in 13gr seem to work well in the air rifles I have.  I have a R9 and a R7 both in .20 and they are my favorite break barrels.  I tend to shoot the R7 anywhere from 15 to 30 yards.  The lower power makes the cocking very easy.  The R9 can easily hit a 1" target consistently at 50 yards.  I have made shots with it, past 100 yards as well.

[airrob]

Gotta say that I really like the R9 in .20.  I am very partial to .20 cal and the JSB pellets in 13gr seem to work well in the air rifles I have.  I have a R9 and a R7 both in .20 and they are my favorite break barrels.  I tend to shoot the R7 anywhere from 15 to 30 yards.  The lower power makes the cocking very easy.  The R9 can easily hit a 1" target consistently at 50 yards.  I have made shots with it, past 100 yards as well.

That might be the combo I go for!  I ordered the R7.  Have to wait a while.

[limbshaker]

177 but if you refuse then 22.  Scrub 20

Absolutely agree.

[SpiralGroove]

177 but if you refuse then 22.  Scrub 20

Absolutely agree.

You know Limb...,
I almost always agree with You and Brett, but in this case (being a Target "Only" Shooter) I couldn't disagree more.  The .20 in a R1 or R9 are wonderful . Not quite in the realm of  "Never Clean Your Barrel" or "Don't work on Your Gun as it will diminish its Value", but in the "Parking Lot of the Playing Field ."