Hatsan barrel switch - if it ain't broke, fix it good...?

[Kragman1]

All,

I have a nice accurate Vortex Edge in .25, and a nice accurate Vortex 95 in .22
So naturally, I want to switch the calibers around.... 

1.  Has anyone swapped the way I'm thinking? I'm guessing the barrel assemblies are the same dimensionally, and I doubt that there's any difference in transfer port size.
2.  Does anyone know where I can get a spare trigger blade for the Edge?  A straighter blade would be a huge improvement on that rifle.

Thanks all

[Leaded]

You can buy parts (Trigger) That aren’t on the website from HatsanUSA.com
Do a customer service request form and specify the part/gun. They’ll write up a purchase order for you.

[Kragman1]

Thanks Leaded - I will do just that!

[mikeyb]

All,

I have a nice accurate Vortex Edge in .25, and a nice accurate Vortex 95 in .22
So naturally, I want to switch the calibers around.... 

1.  Has anyone swapped the way I'm thinking? I'm guessing the barrel assemblies are the same dimensionally, and I doubt that there's any difference in transfer port size.
2.  Does anyone know where I can get a spare trigger blade for the Edge?  A straighter blade would be a huge improvement on that rifle.

Thanks all

The barrel/breechblock assemblies are different. I don't think this will be an easy swap. You are likely to mess up that nice accuracy even if you succeed.

I made a trigger blade straightener for my Edge/Striker rifles. It is pretty soft steel and reshapes easily. Suggest you reshape the blade yourself if you have the time and some basic tools.

https://michaeljbernard.wordpress.com/2020/02/09/2020_02_09_hatsan_edge_trigger_blade/

[Lt. Dan]

All,

I have a nice accurate Vortex Edge in .25, and a nice accurate Vortex 95 in .22
So naturally, I want to switch the calibers around.... 

1.  Has anyone swapped the way I'm thinking? I'm guessing the barrel assemblies are the same dimensionally, and I doubt that there's any difference in transfer port size.
2.  Does anyone know where I can get a spare trigger blade for the Edge?  A straighter blade would be a huge improvement on that rifle.

Thanks all

The barrel/breechblock assemblies are different. I don't think this will be an easy swap. You are likely to mess up that nice accuracy even if you succeed.

I made a trigger blade straightener for my Edge/Striker rifles. It is pretty soft steel and reshapes easily. Suggest you reshape the blade yourself if you have the time and some basic tools.

https://michaeljbernard.wordpress.com/2020/02/09/2020_02_09_hatsan_edge_trigger_blade/

Mike is right, it's really easy, both of mine have been straightened.

[Kragman1]

Michael - that is exactly what I have in my minds eye.  I'll read your write up in detail tonight, but thank you fir posting it at all.

Also - why in the world don't you make up a batch and offer them here?

I have to think that many people would LOVE to do away with the terrible hook shaped blade, especially considering the upward trigger swing that traps your trigger finger.

I'd be down for one if they were available.  Probably two.

[mikeyb]

Michael - that is exactly what I have in my minds eye.  I'll read your write up in detail tonight, but thank you fir posting it at all.

Also - why in the world don't you make up a batch and offer them here?

I have to think that many people would LOVE to do away with the terrible hook shaped blade, especially considering the upward trigger swing that traps your trigger finger.

I'd be down for one if they were available.  Probably two.

I thought about offering a straightening service in the Hobbyist Classified Gate. Something like

"Ship me your curvy Edge/Striker trigger blade along with a postage pre-paid return envelope, I'll straighten it, and send it back to you."

Sadly, I have little free time for my own projects and taking on outside projects will likely get me in trouble.

I should try to talk to someone at Hatsan about getting a good deal on those stamped trigger blades. What I'd really like to do is get Hatsan to send me their excess Edge trigger blade stock ( maybe a few dozen parts?)  at cost plus shipping. MAYBE I could squeeze in a weekend of bulk-processing a few dozen trigger blades and offer them at cost plus postage in the classifieds. Don't need to make money on stuff like this, but also can't afford to buy lots of parts and give them away (WISH I COULD!).

[Kragman1]

Well, if you have some winter/down time after the holidays maybe, juuuuust maybe, we can talk you into a batch. 
After all, once you set up each operation they should fly through to the next one. 
And I'd be willing to help with chasing down spare trigger blades.

[lefteyeshot]

Be easier to buy another gun.

[Kragman1]

Lefteyeshot -
It sounds like its not as simple as popping the barrels off and making a swap after all.  I'll probably leave well enough alone. 
It was just a thought, to have my only .25 in an action with a good trigger.  If I can get my Edge trigger straightened I'll be just as happy I think. The triggers are really the only problem with the Edge.  I'm sure its part.of the product tiering plan....
I'd like to run them both over a chrony to see if one makes more power than the other, but I doubt thats the case.  I like them both for what they are.

[lefteyeshot]

I miss read. I thought you had a 125 and a 95. An Edge isn't worth the trouble, B1,B2 technology. Had a few. Got a .177 Striker 1000s in a wood stock  95 is a nice gun. Don't have a 95 but I have a Tommy, same gun, prettier I think. There are a few affordable .25 springers at PA and ADG.

[lefteyeshot]

Heavier .22 in you 95 might give you the same FPE as a .25. Little less FPS might give better accuracy.

[mikeyb]

Well, if you have some winter/down time after the holidays maybe, juuuuust maybe, we can talk you into a batch. 
After all, once you set up each operation they should fly through to the next one. 
And I'd be willing to help with chasing down spare trigger blades.

I'll send a request for a quote to Hatsan. They would not sell me Quattro parts but would sell the whole Quattro trigger assembly. I vaguely recall ~$40 plus $10 S&H for the complete trigger group. It IS a nice trigger group and that price is not unreasonable. However, Hatsan was selling complete Mod85 and Mod95 refurb rifles for ~$80 +free-shipping last year so $50 for just a Quattro trigger is too much for me. I'd rather buy a whole refurb rifle and parts it out. I expect a similar response from Hatsan regarding the Edge trigger, but it can't hurt to ask.

Many here already know this next section so they can YAWN and skip to the next post

The Edge-Striker-1000 rifles are all basically the same action with different stocks. I have at least one of each in all 3 calibers. They all share the same simple trigger. IMO this is basically a $100 new ($50 refurbished) entry level breakbarrel rifle that has some room for improvement.

Vortex air spring versions usually shoot very smooth right out of the box. I don't normally open them up for any internal work because they just don't need it when new.

Steel coil spring versions vary from mildly clunky to harsh and twangy. A good internal clean, deburr, polish, new piston seal (if old one is damaged or worn), and a proper re-lube has made all my coil spring versions 98% as smooth as their Vortex siblings.

Triggers all get a longer adjustment screw. Factory M3x5mm (#156) is too conservative. M3x8mm is usually perfect for my needs. Next is a little fine smoothing/polishing of the critical sear surfaces. No profile changes, just a near mirror polish with >1000 wet/dry on a flat surface. A tiny dab of Moly past on the new shiny bits and a couple drops of light synthetic oil on the pivots and non-sear sliding parts.

I straighten and trim the curvy trigger blade as previously described. Also replace the heavy wire (0.045") trigger blade spring (#158) with a home-made one from thinner (0.027") spring wire.

https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Striker_Edge-Exploded_View-June2013.pdf

I put it all back together and adjust the new screw for a lighter, but bump-test safe, trigger pull.

What I have is a light but long initial trigger pull up to well defined wall. That's the trigger blade compressing the new trigger blade spring up to where it touches the intermediate sear lever. A kind of "fake" first stage if this were a two stage trigger. If the longer screw is properly adjusted, it should be a short predictable pull of about 2.5 lbs from the wall to fire the rifle. That's pretty much the best I can safely get from this simple one stage trigger. After all that effort my Edge triggers feel "almost" as good as my Quattro triggers.

The trigger just described is what I like/prefer for punching paper, plinking cans, and/or lobotomizing squirrels. If the 2-stage "feel" and 2.5 lb break is NOT what you like you can either learn to accept it or trade up to a better rifle with a better trigger group (a true 2-stage with multiple adjustments).

Hatsan rates the Mod95 and Edge rifles with the same muzzle energy. They share very few parts, but they do use the same piston seal. The Mod95 is a better rifle in many ways, it's just not rated to have more energy than the Edge.

[Leaded]

They do sell the trigger blade separate from the whole assembly. I got one a few months ago (at least the Quattro blade).

[Kragman1]

Mike,  I added a longer screw to my Edge trigger and the pull while heavy, is just fine to me.  Its a field gun, not a target rifle.
I'm not especially enamored of light triggers on springers anyway.  The T06 on my 350 needs to be made heavier, not lighter, IMO.

But I absolutely hate the way the Edge triggers work.  The upward pull combined with the hooked blade not worthy, frankly.  I've found myself placing the pad of my finger on the tip of the hook rather than on the blade face.  Its a lousy workaround but even that is an improvement.

[mikeyb]

Mike,  I added a longer screw to my Edge trigger and the pull while heavy, is just fine to me.  Its a field gun, not a target rifle.
I'm not especially enamored of light triggers on springers anyway.  The T06 on my 350 needs to be made heavier, not lighter, IMO.

But I absolutely hate the way the Edge triggers work.  The upward pull combined with the hooked blade not worthy, frankly.  I've found myself placing the pad of my finger on the tip of the hook rather than on the blade face.  Its a lousy workaround but even that is an improvement.

I sent Hatsan a request for availability and pricing on Edge trigger parts. They usually respond in 3-5 business days so I should have an answer later next week.

Some observations and comments:

The Quattro trigger blade has more of an "upward" pull due to the pivot being so far forward. But it is a better overall design so that upward pull is easy to learn and doesn't cause me any discomfort.

The Edge blade pivot is more centered and very similar to the older Crosman/Gamo trigger designs. Upward rotation is much less than the Quattro blade, but is still present. As with Crosman and Gamo triggers like this one, a slightly curved trigger blade does not cause me any discomfort.

The sickel-like "hook" on the Edge blade is uncomfortable and pinches my trigger finger. Not too bad for a shot or two, but fatigue and discomfort are guaranteed after a dozen shots which is barely my warm-up on a shooting day. I've tried to just use the trigger blade tip also, but agree that is not a solution.

My finger size is average so I don't know how anyone with larger fingers would be able to use the Edge trigger without complaint. It feels to me like Hatsan designed this particular trigger blade for very thin (10 year old child size?) fingers OR one of their CAD designers in a cubicle, who never shoots the actual air rifles, thought a curvy trigger blade shape would "look cool".

Straightening the Edge blade makes a BIG difference in how this trigger feels. That directly translates into improved shooting enjoyment and accuracy.

I still think the Striker/Edge series is one of the best entry level spring-piston breakbarrels currently available  at ~$100 new or ~$50 refurbished, but I'll add one more complaint about the Edge which is easily remedied.

I prefer using open sights while my vision is still good enough to do so. IMO the front hood on the Edge sight is too small in diameter and too thick. When I'm trying to get quick squirrel-brain sized target acquisition at 30-40 feet, that hood obscures most of my target. It may be there to protect the front post from damage, but it makes the front sight pretty much USELESS for my needs. I'm thinking this may be the result of another cubicle bound CAD designer.

My current practice is to slice off the hood with a small cut-off grinder disc and carefully file/sand the stubs. The result looks good, like it was molded that way from the factory, and more importantly it provides an uncluttered front sight post that allows me to SEE my target!

The changes discussed are permanent changes. Normally I don't like to make permanent changes to air guns unless they really need them. In this case the Edge is a low cost rifle that really needs the changes.

[Kragman1]

Hi Mike

I agree with just about everything you wrote.
I have large hands, and as the trigger progresses through its up-and-back swing my finger gets compacted between the bottom of the hook and the bottom of the stock. Well before the gun fires.  It is ruining an otherwise good gun.
I also don't like the front sight hood, and I might duplicate your solution.

Hopefully we will get good news from Hatsan USA and you will be able to make a bunch of shooters happy! 

[mikeyb]

Quote received 12/28/20.

My compliments to Hatsan for the fast response. Everyone else seems be having abnormal response delays due to higher volume of requests and reduced staff. The response was pretty close to what I expected.

Edge Trigger group (complete) sells for $24.95, but none are available right now. IMO the cost is reasonable if you need a new trigger group.

Edge Trigger blade (only) is not available for sale. I'm guessing here but it is likely a warranty/safety/liability decision. I'm not surprised by their decision, but I am a bit disappointed extra trigger blades are not available.

[Leaded]

Why would they sell a Quattro blade but not an edge blade due to liability?
They ask an airgun maintenance skill question in the customer service request form, I wonder if your response here limits what parts they will sell you.

[mikeyb]

Why would they sell a Quattro blade but not an edge blade due to liability?
They ask an airgun maintenance skill question in the customer service request form, I wonder if your response here limits what parts they will sell you.

Do I really seem that green?

I pre-type my responses and forms in a simple text editor. That's an old (pre 2008) habit from my Windoze days when I'd type a wordy response or fill in a long form, IE would CRASH , then Windoze would CRASH and give me the blue screen of death, and I'd have to start over. Here is the form data I supplied to Hatsan.
**********************************************
Experience: I tune and work on my own airguns, I am very experienced.
Model: Edge
Serial Number: xxxx-xxxxxR (redacted)
Caliber: 177
Stock Variant: Black Composite
Purchased From: Hatsan
Purchase Type: Refurbished
Date of Purchase: 2020/02/25
Request Type: Parts Request
Approximately how many shots have you fired through your airgun? 2000
Have you modified your airgun or attempted to repair it yourself? yes
Additional Notes:

NO Warranty service needed. Am only requesting parts quote.
Can you please quote price and availability for the following parts for Hatsan Edge air rifle:

Trigger Group Assembly (complete with all 15 parts #151-#165)
Trigger Blade (only 1 part #159)
Lockup Spring (#459)
Lockup Wedge (#463)
**********************************************
The content of the response suggested the Quattro blade is much easier to replace so they will sell that blade. What was NOT in the response... (IMO) Since the Quattro blade is cast metal and has some history of breaking, Hatsan may allow shipping/selling that blade to make customers happy and minimize their repair costs. Shipping whole rifles back and forth across the country to repair a simple broken trigger blade is a huge waste (but a windfall for the carriers!).

The Edge blade is only marginally more difficult to remove (IMO) but it does contain 2 additional pins and a spring which must be installed correctly for proper operation. Hatsan may feel it is too difficult for most of their customers and (sadly) I think they would be correct. The members here may think this is a simple task, but for many other folks it would be much more difficult than the Quattro blade swap. Also, the Edge blade is stamped metal and probably has NO history of breakage. Add that all up and Hatsan has no good reason to offer that part and several good reasons NOT to.