Need help :)

[Onebaddj]

Just wanted to say welcome aboard! You got alot of good advice already on which guns. Scour pawn shops online forums garage sale too and ya might find something dirt cheap. Good luck.

[Jay]

Welcome Leila to the GTA!!! You have been started in the right direction by the rest of the group so just wanted to say HI, an to add we hope we turn you into an AG junkie like we have done poor Lizzie when she stopped in with the same concern's about her bird's protection, LOL if you become as "good" as Lizzie at finding old treasure's PLEASE do stay around, we men folk can't find any deal's anywhere an she dig's a new one up almost weekly(we are hoping she start's selling some hehe).

[leila]

ahh illinios... i'm just west of you.
There is an airgun show in st. louis, missouri this weekend.
It might be best (cheaper) to buy something across the river. I just hope you aren't near chicago.

Um.. projectiles (bullets, arrows, pellets) are all gonna arc downward if u fire upward.
"What goes up, must come down" - Isaac Newton, lil known brother of Fig Newton. j/k

The crosman 760 which is what you'd been using, doesn't surprise me that you weren't able to hit them with that. Its barrel is smooth bore (not rifled). Intended more for bb's at like 10m than pellets.

Save you're self a couple hundred bucks and try out a rifled barrel multi-pumper.
Daisy 880, Crosman 2100, Benji 397.

A lot of people in the past used Sheridan Blue Streaks, the ancestor of the current crosman benji 397/392/blue streaks, to protect their purple-martin habitats.  There are a couple posts on this forum of people still using their 35 year old 342s to take out starlings.

Sheridan made the .20 blue streak 1958-1977
Benjamin (St. Louis Air Rifle Co.) made the 312/317,347/342, and bought out sheridan in '77, then they started making the 392/397/current blue streaks.
Crosman bought out Benjamin-Sheridan in 1995.

Daisy has been Daisy since... late 1800's.  Not much new, innovative stuff from them.
RWS = Diana (think Nobel of Nobel Peace prize)
Anything else is likely made in China/Turkey under license.

The only problem, is that beyond 20m you'll want to use a scope (unless you've got naturally telescopic vision), and these aren't exactly scope friendly, you have to buy an intermount: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-intermount-fits-benjamin-sheridan-multi-pump-rifles?a=2015

to mount a scope, since these don't typically have a built in grooves for mounting scopes.

I really want to thank you again for all this info, I'm going to have to really do my homework and learn about all of the rifles in your post.
I live west of Chicago in small town called Plano.
Before I shot at actual birds, I practiced in my basement and it took me forever to hit the target, but eventually I hit it... but then when I tried it on birds I was hitting everything but the them. 
PS I really had fun while I was just a target shooting, it was stress relieving sort of thing...

[leila]

Just wanted to say welcome aboard! You got alot of good advice already on which guns. Scour pawn shops online forums garage sale too and ya might find something dirt cheap. Good luck.

Per Lizzies advise on the martin forum I did visit a pawn shop already once, where I almost bought Gamo Varmint Hunter .177 1200 in a case brand new looking for $100. But then when the guy started asking and finding out what I'm planning to use it for, I guess he thougth that I might be too dangerous with it, he told me that he didn't want me to hit anyone with it, because if someone got hurt it could come back to his shop. I really can't blame him and now since I've found this forum I know I will get better and will buy rifle (or two:)) that is perfect for me. Thank you for the welcome!

[leila]

Thank you for your welcome Jay!!!
I am not sure if I can be a good as Lizzie but I will try.

And thank you to all, you have so helpful!!!

[mav72]

Just wanted to say welcome aboard! You got alot of good advice already on which guns. Scour pawn shops online forums garage sale too and ya might find something dirt cheap. Good luck.

Per Lizzies advise on the martin forum I did visit a pawn shop already once, where I almost bought Gamo Varmint Hunter .177 1200 in a case brand new looking for $100. But then when the guy started asking and finding out what I'm planning to use it for, I guess he thougth that I might be too dangerous with it, he told me that he didn't want me to hit anyone with it, because if someone got hurt it could come back to his shop. I really can't blame him and now since I've found this forum I know I will get better and will buy rifle (or two:)) that is perfect for me. Thank you for the welcome!

Hello and Welcome!

Yea, that's the problem I have... I don't have much space and I'm sure that some of the high powered spring rifles would shoot through our wooden old fence if I didn't put a steel sheet up... I'd stick with something under the power of a Benjamin 397 in .177 or 392 in .22... A Crosman 2100 is still a good deal though for power accuracy and noise... Also, always be aware what's behind your target before you take the shot...

[althawk]

Yeah forgot to mention that about the multi pumps.
They have variable power (due to the # of pumps).
Benjis are 2-8x pumps
Crosman/Daisy pumpers usually are 3-10x.

With a benji practice with 3x pumps, 5x pumps, and once you're reasonably certain that you could hit an apple.
Try out 6x pumps. I wouldn't try 7x-8x pumps unless you were trying to take out non-bird pests.

With a Daisy 880/Crosman 2100 try 5x pumps to start. then 7x pumps.
The point of impact will be slightly different, especially the farther out you go.

benji is almost 2x more powerful.

Unlike springers which are always at near their max power. They seem to fluctuate more velocity wise than pumpers.

A few months ago i got an old 1964 (45 years old) blue streak, stock as far as i could tell... and it still shot amazing, didn't have to replace seals (although i may have to it is a lil beat) the only problem was after 45's years the stock had a faded/bleached look, and after 5x coats of finish it looks good as new.

[VINNY]

Welcome!!

[althawk]

Well I just had to read some more of those purple martin forums.
Seems that the top three recommendations (in no particular order):

Note: A lot of people were satisfied with their crosman 2100 (airmaster77), http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-2100-Classic-.177-Caliber-Carbine/15939531
just when that wasn't enough;


Benjamin Marauder Rifle (AKA m-rod) PCP - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-marauder-air-rifle?m=1774
- I wonder how effective the pistol version (AKA p-rod) would be. Shorter, Cheaper, 700fps.
  Marauder pistol - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-marauder-pcp-air-pistol?m=2367

You'd have to find a way to charge them though, since they're PCPs (Pre-Charged-Pneumatic). Translation a lot more $$$.

Beeman R7 - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899
-Seems to be the springer, no question, for protecting purple martins.
Quiet, not hold-sensitive, not over powered...etc.

Sheridan Blue Streak
- I suppose, since the modern Crosman manufactured sheridan blue streak is essentially the same platform as the 392/397, any of the three would work.
- If you do happen to stumble accross an older model, a true Sheridan mfg one, it'll say "Made in Racine, Wi." and "5mm" (aka .20 cal)

$100 + s/h , modern 392 refurb : http://www.airgundepot.com/392-rm.html
And occasionally they'll have enough for their other site: http://www.airgunsdaily.com/

Airgun Classifieds:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds.php

Of interest:
$195+s/h - 392 with intermount (about $30) and a VERY good air gun scope (a lil over $50+ in value) - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1313270601/For+Sale-+Benjamin+392+%28-22%29+pump+rifle+combo
$200 - Blue Streak + $100 walmart rs2 - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1316008394/Sheridan+Bluestreak+and+Beeman+Sportsman+RS2...both+%24200.00+FREE+Shipping
$240 - One of the rare 392's that has the grooves to mount a scope - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315668943/FS+Benjamin+392+Limited+Edition---
$225 - Silver Streak (The good looking sheridan, same as the blue streak, just nicer looking)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315949733/Sheridan+ssssssSilver+sssssssStreak
$300 - R7 - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315994617/WTS+R7+in+.20

Craigslist:
$100 - benji 342 - http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/spo/2590676943.html
$50 - airmaster77 - http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tag/2570233350.html

I would recommend avoiding anything on craigslist that is vague, involves money orders, or like the 1st one i linked, asks for more than contact information.  Seeing as how chicago is anti-airgun though i can understand why he might ask that, still its a little strange. Craigslist is great, sometimes. Also people don't seem to understand that if its used it needs to cost more than 20% less than a brand new one. Just be very very very careful. I wouldn't get the $50 airmaster77, when i could get the crosman for $55 brand new (or $39 refurbed directly from crosman).

Estate Sales:
NOTE about estate sale: ALWAYS GET THERE EARLY by 10-15 minutes, or someone else will get your coveted item.

http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/IL/

Auctions:
a late 1950's possibly early 60's Blue Streak with hold-down safety, Freeport, Il (2hrs west of plano). Oct. 8th.
http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1998&aid=43467&lid=11371614#topoflot

There's an auction house up by addison,il. that's got a few airguns now and then, they have online bidding, but you have to make arrangements for pickup or s/h. Now and then they'll have some sheridans for auction.

http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/189792.aspx?highlight=gun+guns+bb
http://www.leonardauction.com/auctions/schedule.php

gunbroker.com
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=251248524

Searching estatesales.net, craigslist;
It helps to search for "air rifle", air gun, airgun, bb gun (as an example of what popped up this week)
http://pictures.estatesales.net/8525/215424/3402401.jpg?634514450925070000
Clearly that top air rifle is not a BB GUN, but a rocker safety, sheridan blue streak. My guess pre-1975's mfg (maybe someone who knows more about sheridans can take a look at the front sight and see if its a late model 1963). With an installed Williams peep sight, which definitely increases its value. My guess at a reasonable price for it ~$100-130. To bad its probably too far away for ya to get to it, its between Chicago & Detroit:
http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/215424.aspx?highlight=bb+guns

Searching for 'pellet' is how I found my sheridan. It was mislabeled as a ".177 pellet sheridan", but I knew better . The stock was in ugly shape, but when I picked it up and pumped it one time and heard the tell-tale "pfff" noise of a working pumper, I was willing to pay for it. They also had 3x tins of 5mm pellets on hand (1x in the metal tin, and two yellow boxes), I only got the one yellow pellet box that was nearly full.
When i took it apart later to clean decades of oil+dust, i was amazed at how well manufactured it was.  Seriously the metal parts on it looked like it'd been made only a few years ago. Mostly made of brass and aluminum, the only things that are likely to rust are the stock rear sight (williams peep sight is aluminum), and the trigger (which has been blue-ed to resist rusting).

[althawk]

I also looked at methods of eliminating starlings.
Several people ruined their martin houses using firearms, pellet guns, and even slingshots.

Some used baiting (especially in the winter and spring) at the base of the pole or a nearby tree and shot at a down ward angle from a window/door, using the ground/tree as their backstop.  I'm personally not too keen on baiting as a practice, however considering the fact that its an invasive pest that kills off songbirds, wood peckers, purple martins... its probably necessary.
Essentially baiting involves putting out food (cat food, cheetos, corn...etc.) that starlings seem to LOVE and waited for them to come in to be terminated.
Some people also used traps to capture starlings and then eliminate them.
Unfortunately baiting will attract other pests. 
It will significantly reduce damage to property and people. Which is a big plus.

[3rd Ranger]

Dint for get the co2 guns like the 2240 pistol 2260 & 1077 rifles.  I personaly use almost stock 2240 modded transferport,6.5" tko  LDC & 4x32 scope.  With this Ive taken pigeons & grackles out to 20yds.  I just  noticed starling in the neighborhood so ill start thinning them & the infestation of sparows I have.

[leila]

Thank for the tip about auctions althawk!
I use trap (Blains repeating) for sparrows, so far I got 61 of them and counting, I get between 3-5 a day. I really like that trap because I can let go the birds that are other than sparrows. Starlings are little bit harder to get with a trap, what I use is special type of entrace in my Purple Martin Gourds and House that suppose to prevent them from entering, but I heard that that entrance is not full proof.
Thanks also for idea of baiting starlings, it's way better than trying to get them and hitting the martin house.
So I narrowed it down (not really ) in no particular order to these:
Daisy 953
Benjamin 397 .177
Beeman  Ram .177 Caliber Air Rifle Combo RS Trigger
Crossman Sheridan Blue Streak
Beeman R-7 combo
Oh and Theoben Eliminator looks nice but I think it's a bit too much for a start up rifle.  
edit<to remove benjamin .22 and add daisy>
 

[dpricenator]

I'm worried about you shoting up, and the pellet coming down on on eof the neighbors behind the habitat.  responsible pesting requires your target to have a backdrop that deosnot put anyone at danger. 

[althawk]

Hmm... beeman elkhorn rs2...
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-elkhorn-air-rifle-rs2-trigger?m=1827
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Beeman174-Elkhorn-177-Cal-Air-Rifle/1196529.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dbeeman%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=beeman&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

^ has a nice scope for airgunning.
   no open sights, so you'd have to have a scope on it.

I wonder what the difference is in performance compared to the Walmart rs2:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Dual-Caliber-Air-Rifle-with-Scope/16686245
(this is a RS2, with 2x barrels .177, .22 and a mediocre scope)

If the difference is the 'fluted barrel' on the elkhorn, then this deal i posted earlier doesn't look too bad:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1316008394/Sheridan+Bluestreak+and+Beeman+Sportsman+RS2...both+%24200.00+FREE+Shipping

You'd be getting an 'elkhorn' AND a 70's blue streak for the cost of an elkhorn+scope.


Oh and be careful, the Beeman R's are made in Germany, almost all other beemans are currently made in china.
Most of the R's are rebranded Weihrauchs (HW), so buy a HW## to save a few bucks. I don't know if the R7 has a HW## model.

[althawk]

Using info from here...
http://www.@#$%^.com/Beeman-Air-Rifle-Parts-s/55.htm

The $100 walmart rs2 with two barrels i posted earlier is a model 1073.

Looks to me like the 1073 has the same power plant as an elk horn (model 1067) and ram (model 1062/1064).
Just that the 1067 has the fluted barrel, checkering on the stock, no sights, and 3-9x32 scope.
I could be (likely) wrong.
Lots of people have liked their walmart rs2's with the .22 barrel at just around 700fps (935fps w/ .177).
Thats approximately 15-16fpe more power then i believe is necessary. Concerned that some people are saying these are hold sensitive and loud.

I forget exactly why, perhaps the .177 barrels are badly mfg. whatever the reason, the .22 just is more popular on rs2s.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,16179.0.html
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,808.0.html

[Lambchops]

+1 to what everyone else said. They've been very helpful to you. In MY opinion, if I were under the same circumstances as you, I would get a Crosman 1377 with the plastic stock upgrade. Plenty of power to control starlings up to 25 yards. Also quiet and user friendly for clustered neighborhoods. Plus you can control it's power. 3 pumps for plinking and 6-10 for starling removal

Anyways hope I helped and glad to see you've joined this excellent forum.

[leila]

I'm worried about you shoting up, and the pellet coming down on on eof the neighbors behind the habitat.  responsible pesting requires your target to have a backdrop that deosnot put anyone at danger. 

After reading what althawk wrote "what goes up must come down" and "Pythagorean theorem" I won't be shooting up, unless of course I become a pro  at shooting and looks like that will be awhile.

[leila]

...Lots of people have liked their walmart rs2's with the .22 barrel at just around 700fps (935fps w/ .177).
Thats approximately 15-16fpe more power then i believe is necessary. Concerned that some people are saying these are hold sensitive and loud.

Ok I'm going to scratch that, I definitely don't want something loud and hold sensitive.

[leila]

+1 to what everyone else said. They've been very helpful to you. In MY opinion, if I were under the same circumstances as you, I would get a Crosman 1377 with the plastic stock upgrade. Plenty of power to control starlings up to 25 yards. Also quiet and user friendly for clustered neighborhoods. Plus you can control it's power. 3 pumps for plinking and 6-10 for starling removal

Anyways hope I helped and glad to see you've joined this excellent forum.

Thank you and this is an amazing forum with a lot of great information, everyone here has been extremely helpful!!!

[clip]

Per Lizzies advise on the martin forum I did visit a pawn shop already once, where I almost bought Gamo Varmint Hunter .177 1200 in a case brand new looking for $100. But then when the guy started asking and finding out what I'm planning to use it for, I guess he thougth that I might be too dangerous with it, he told me that he didn't want me to hit anyone with it, because if someone got hurt it could come back to his shop. I really can't blame him and now since I've found this forum I know I will get better and will buy rifle (or two:)) that is perfect for me. Thank you for the welcome!
[/quote]

Leila...
  I have a 4 year old Gamo Varmint Hunter in .177, and it is indeed a hard hitting rifle. However, it's also an extremely accurate one. Mine came with a scope, small flashlight and a laser pointer. It's light weight, easy to cock and load and the shot cycle is smooth.  It's a shame he wouldn't sell it to you. I'm NOT suggesting this but I suppose you could get a friend to buy it then "loan" it to you. Some newer Gamo's have quality issues so examine them closely. The older ones have a metal trigger and those are more desireable.
  Good luck
   Larry