Diana 350 scope rail

[35 shooter]

Thanks Yogi,

I’ll probably opt for a another new one if I get the option.
If it were lock up, or piston, or breech seal problems, etc., i’d try to work on it myself, but I don’t think I want to try to tackle the rail problem on my own!
Just bad luck on my first springer.
I’m sure if I get a new one, it’ll be just as accurate, but may not shoot cheap pellets as well as this one lol.
Oh well.

Buddy;

You have already been given good advice:
Rail is NOT screwed on.
What LOOKS like screws are rivets.
The whole thing is made, then bored and polished so that the piston (or sliding chamber in all the other guns) will slide without interference.
 
Return the gun.
Ask Numrich Gun Parts Corp how to do that. 
It is my understanding that UMAREX has nothing to do with this, that it was a direct sale from DIANA to Numrich.

Now, you may want to look into a ZR mount, because the ZR mount does not only protect the scope, it also protects the rail.

Don't know what scope you have mounted, but using lighter scopes in fixed mounts is a good idea. If you want to use a heavier scope (in excess of 18 oz), I would go for a ZR Mount.

In a FEW cases, I have re-attached rails to receivers, but they were nearly irreplaceable guns.

Numrich SHOULD offer you a replacement.

Sorry you had to experience that.

Keep well  and shoot straight!




HM

I’ll contact Numrich in the morning. In what way does a ZR base protect the rail?
I understand how it protects a scope.

Could tightening a 6 screw BKL base on the rail break the rivets loose like this? That’s the base I used.
I’ve read reports of them being used on D350.s for thousands of shots with no problems like this, nor movement from the base even though it uses no stop screw.

[HectorMedina]

I’ll contact Numrich in the morning. In what way does a ZR base protect the rail?
I understand how it protects a scope.

Could tightening a 6 screw BKL base on the rail break the rivets loose like this? That’s the base I used.
I’ve read reports of them being used on D350.s for thousands of shots with no problems like this, nor movement from the base even though it uses no stop screw.

Buddy,

In ALL cases of the rails I have had to re-attach, the culprits were not BKL mounts, but UTG/Hawke/Sportsmatch/ etc. mounts with stop pins.
Shooters do not realize that in the T06 rail two of the scope stops are bored through and two are not. And they place the stop pins in the deeper holes where they feel the mount will be less likely to move. Once they have the rail located, they will tighten down the stop pins, and THEN tighten the dovetail plates.
OR, they will tighten the dovetail plates, and THEN bear down on the stop pins.
What they are doing in this is the same thing that you would do using a gear/pulley extractor. You grab onto the thing, and then pull on it by screwing on the extractor screw. That is what has pulled the rivets apart, again, IMHE. Not saying that this was YOUR case.
Stop pins need to be left loose, then the dovetail plates tightened, THEN the stop pins can be GENTLY bottomed and then they NEED to be backed out 1/4 turn. Then loc-tited in place. Of course, no mount manufacturer encloses detailed instructions on how to use their mounts.
Savvy airgunners have been replacing OEM stop pins for properly fitting screws and taking care in how they use them, but it is not a topic often asked as it seems "simple enough".

The ZR mounts "disengage" the scope and rings from the base. So neither the scope nor the base take the pounding nor the vibrations of the whole recoil cycle. The forces in the cycle are quite interesting, if you have the time read these entries:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/a-high-speed-analysis-of-the-way-the-zr-mounts-work

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/march-14th-2016

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/truly-taming-the-harmonics-in-spring-piston-airguns

Do read all the comments to these entries.

Hope these blog entries give you a better understanding of what goes on during a shot cycle.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM


In any event, keep us posted of what happens.

[35 shooter]

Thanks Hector!

Umrich says 30 day return for money back or a new rifle, plus ground shipping rate refund on shipping costs.

[HectorMedina]

Thanks Hector!

Umrich says 30 day return for money back or a new rifle, plus ground shipping rate refund on shipping costs.

I'm glad Numrich is stepping up to the plate. In theory, Numrich should file a report with DIANA and either send the gun back to Germany for analysis, or request a replacement mechanism/compression tube for refurbishing. Believe me Numrich can do this because DIANA will stand behind the brand.
MANY (as in more than 40, LOL!)  years ago, I started doing business with Numrich when they sold a ton of parts for surplus rifles. I still remember the days when you could get a K98 action for $10 and an OEM Mauser Stock (both parts) for $5, when Herter's was a household name among firearms enthusiasts and laws were less complicated.  LOL!

Guess I am dating myself. ;-)

Anyway, answered your PM to the best of my abilities and I hope you will be able to make an informed decision.

Keep well and keep us posted!






HM

[35 shooter]

Lol, I was around back then too Hector! Guess we’re both a bit “dated” ! Everyone had a Herters catalog, I just never dealt with Numrich till now.
Yes, they’re standing behind it no problems.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

[dtdtdtdt]

Lol, I was around back then too Hector! Guess we’re both a bit “dated” ! Everyone had a Herters catalog, I just never dealt with Numrich till now.
Yes, they’re standing behind it no problems.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

Not only did I have a Herter's catalog and used it.  I still have a Herter's powder dribbler that I use to this date.


I have bought lots of goodies from Numrich over the years including parts for some fairly esoteric firearms.  Most recently, I bought several pounds (!!!) of mismatched scope rings/bases, rails, etc.  I matched up the pairs and ended up with about 25 scope ring sets mostly from high end companies.  I used what I needed and recouped my costs several times over by selling the matched sets at my friend's gun show tables. 

[HectorMedina]

Not only did I have a Herter's catalog and used it.  I still have a Herter's powder dribbler that I use to this date.


I have bought lots of goodies from Numrich over the years including parts for some fairly esoteric firearms.  Most recently, I bought several pounds (!!!) of mismatched scope rings/bases, rails, etc.  I matched up the pairs and ended up with about 25 scope ring sets mostly from high end companies.  I used what I needed and recouped my costs several times over by selling the matched sets at my friend's gun show tables.

Dave

You're a Yankee, LOL!

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[HectorMedina]

Just to relay the EMail received from the Technical CEO at DIANA:

"Dear Hector,

thanks!

The DIANA- and GSG-team is healthy so far…

And we hope, you, yours, and your readers are too!

The scope-rail is attached with two systems in parallel:

-        The screws, which are real screws, are screwed in and „riveted“; therefore the attempt to loosen the screws would destroy them.

-        Separate sections of the rail are pressed and riveted; that means that the rail-material is pressed from the upper side passing holes

in the cylinder and „riveted“ inside the cylinder.

 
Both processes are performed at „room-temperature“.


For both operations it´s essential that the riveted material inside the cylinder is geometrically on the same level as the cylinder-diameter, in

order not to disturb / destroy the spring or tube….

 

Screw-diameter: M3

Torque-moment: Approx. 3 Nm followed by a „riveting-process“...    "



As a note: 3 N-m is equivalent to 26.55 in-lbs, so it is a really high torque for the size of the screw.

I've just sent to Germany Buddy's rifle Serial #, we'll see what comes back and what sort of follow up can be performed with Numrich from the other side of the Atlantic.

Hopefully, Buddy will keep us posted!





HM

[35 shooter]

Just recieved an e-mail from Numrich Customer Service.
A replacement rifle will be shipped to me within the next 2 business days!

I hope Numrich gets satisfaction from Diana as well! I’m sure they will as the rifle was definitely defective.
I just hope the new rifle is as accurate as the other one. I was really enjoying my first springer.

[HectorMedina]

Just recieved an e-mail from Numrich Customer Service.
A replacement rifle will be shipped to me within the next 2 business days!

I hope Numrich gets satisfaction from Diana as well! I’m sure they will as the rifle was definitely defective.
I just hope the new rifle is as accurate as the other one. I was really enjoying my first springer.

I'm glad Numrich sorted this out for you.

BTW, for all the friends here:

IF in the future, something like this happens, DIANA has offered to replace the mechanisms tube directly through CCA (Prior inspection to our satisfaction that it was not owner abuse).

Hope this helps.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[35 shooter]

Replacement rifle arrived today . I’m working today, so only had time to unbox it and admire the straight grain stock on it.
Tonight i’ll clean the bbl. and mount the scope on it.

[Yogi]

Wow Hector!
Good to get an answer from the Jefe.  I'm kind of surprised that he even knows the manufacturing technique.
I wonder if most American CEO's would know how their products are put together?

-Y

[HectorMedina]

Wow Hector!
Good to get an answer from the Jefe.  I'm kind of surprised that he even knows the manufacturing technique.
I wonder if most American CEO's would know how their products are put together?

-Y

Yogi;

I have to tell you that M&G (DIANA)  has TWO CEO's, literally, they both rank the same. One is in charge of the Management, Marketing, and other "soft Stuff" (people oriented), the other is dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to the "Hard" aspects.
They BOTH report to the BOD's.
It's good in the sense that there are knowledgeable persons suited to each aspect in place to solve things. It is not so good in the sense that it takes a LONG time to get things done.
HOPEFULLY, once things get done, they will get done right, so in the long run, the management theory is that by privileging EFFICACY over EFFICIENCY, the overall bottom line will be better.

American companies, with their subservience to Wall Street and instant results would not be able to take that approach.

Different strokes . . .

¿Will we see, in the long run how it all pans out? 

:-(

As far as WE, airgunners, are concerned, it just means we need to be patient, LOL!

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

[dtdtdtdt]

Not only did I have a Herter's catalog and used it.  I still have a Herter's powder dribbler that I use to this date.


I have bought lots of goodies from Numrich over the years including parts for some fairly esoteric firearms.  Most recently, I bought several pounds (!!!) of mismatched scope rings/bases, rails, etc.  I matched up the pairs and ended up with about 25 scope ring sets mostly from high end companies.  I used what I needed and recouped my costs several times over by selling the matched sets at my friend's gun show tables.

Dave

You're a Yankee, LOL!

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

Actually from Kansas as middle as you can get.

 Been thinking about repeating my game as I still have a bunch of mismatched parts in the box and numrich still has the pound lots availble. I suspect they buy stock from old gun shops being closed and partthem out.   

One of the sets was the very high end scope rings and bases used on The military sniper rifles.  They list for about $135 I sold them to friend for $20 my cost was about a dollar. 

Remember my torque experiment to learn the strip outtorque for bases? That where they came from. 

Interesting discussion of manufacturing method.  That is why they are solid! Is he the guy who was with when I met you in Ohio a few years ago?  Good shooter as I recall

[HectorMedina]

OK, Dave;

Then I'll correct myself and say that you are a Yankee at heart!  ;-)

The young guy you met in OH is Tobias Schmidt. He was the Sales/Export Manager. He went out of the company a few months ago and is now establishing his own trading company. With over 25 years of connections to the arms business (UMAREX, then DIANA), he has a very good chance of success.

DIANA is a VERY "flat" company, only a couple dozen persons in total. So, on many occasions, it's "all hands on deck".

The Technical CEO is Florian Hassler, a lifelong shooter, about my age (64-65), has garnered many distinctions along his shooting career, at one point he was even a back-up shooter in the German Olympic team.
His favourite  shooting discipline is 300 m Olympic Match (prone, currently using a 6.5 mm's round) , though he does shoot 10 M Rifle quite a lot.

He is VERY good at offhand, and he has a little "lateral dispersion in the mid-region", so I have not been able to convince him to shoot FT, but it's always a ball to be with him because he has a lot of interesting stories.

Overall, the DIANA team is a great bunch of people.

Let's hope that next year we can meet again in OH at the Pyramyd Air Cup 2021.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[Lt. Dan]

How did this turn out Buddy ?

[35 shooter]

How did this turn out Buddy ?

Dan,

I started another thread on it... “The replacement 350” further down the page here.
Hector put some good info on Diana repair in here and I did’nt want it to get covered up.

The new rifle is doing great so far... scope rail is nice and tight, very accurate with the same pellets as the other rifle. I’ve got pics of groups if I can figure out how to download them from my phone lol.