DAR Gen II is now available

[Tater]

Yes.  I was trying to ask about the guppy look without being insulting.

I actually like the guppy look on a gun. Like the disco stock.

[subscriber]

For those of you wondering what happens when you tighten the little screw directly ahead of the trigger guard; it locks up the hammer so you can't cock the gun.

A days ago I snugged up that screw, along with a few others that seemed a little loose.  This, while waiting for alternative hammer springs I ordered.  When I went to change out the spring tonight, I could not cock the hammer.  I had forgotten about tightening that screw because it didn't happen directly before trying to cock the gun.  I actually thought some of the wicking locktite I applied to the cocking lever pivot, had somehow got where it wasn't needed.

Anyway, I thought that if the hammer won't move back, perhaps it would move forward.  I managed to move it a little by tapping on the hammer.  That opened the valve and depressurized the gun...

So, I thought; let me open it up and see what I managed to corrupt.  Did not know if that little screw needed to come out, but removed it anyway.  As soon as I had the barrel and airtank off, the hammer was free to move.  Took me a bit of pondering to connect the dots...

Now, I don't know if that screw is intended as a hammer de-bouncer, or to make the gun inert for long term storage.  All I can say is that I wish that someone in the 5 hours of DAR Gen 1 threads I read yesterday had mentioned it.  Earlier in this thread I asked about the screw, but I suppose my posts are too long to read...

[subscriber]

As an addendum to the above post, I figured out what that little screw is for: 

It retains the while plastic liner the hammer slides in.

I deliberately turned the screw in far enough to see it in the hammer channels in the first image below. 

In the next image, I had backed out the screw another half a turn beyond where the hammer was just free to move.  Then, the grub screw's "head" is about flush with the receiver.  I applied a drop of wicking locktite to the screw; wiped off the excess, and lay the receiver on its side; so only wicking forces would take the "glue" further into and between the threads.

Nipping this screw even gently stops the hammer from being cocked.   Turning the screw in with the hammer cocked would prevent the hammer from striking the valve.

An exploded parts diagram would be so very useful...

[Dan H]

Good pic's ... nice to see what is inside ,and how it all works thanks for posting those pics  ,....  I just got done working on my brother's new DAR .22 ... scope is mounted a few things lubed up- cleaned the barrel ,and we are ready to shoot tomorrow ,and dial this gun in all they way...  he's going to really enjoy this one it's his first PCP ...

[Bob Pratl]

As an addendum to the above post, I figured out what that little screw is for: 

It retains the while plastic liner the hammer slides in.

Thanks.....good information.

[tracker1955]

I really like the concept of the plastic sleeve for the hammer to ride in, I wish other manufacturers would take note of this and incorporate it in their designs,

[Bob Pratl]

I really like the concept of the plastic sleeve for the hammer to ride in, I wish other manufacturers would take note of this and incorporate it in their designs,

That is what impressed me as well, and that is also the reason why I purchased a DAR I and now a DAR II.

[cosmic]

I don't have one, but my rifles also have the gauge in the suicide position.. I keep a dental, mechanics mirror in my rifle case to check the gauge...

[Nvreloader]

Sub
Here is some conical springs, I got some for my poppet shaft springs, I don't remember the size,
off hand........... , 
I could not keep them locked on the poppet shaft, the way I was locking them on..........

Here is the spec's/dimensions of the extra one I have:
Base dia .520", height = .520", top of spring diameter = .240", round wire dia = .016", very soft action.
I bought this from Zorro comp.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=conical+springs&_sacat=42905&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

HTH's,
Don

In reading through those two year old threads, I remember someone looking for replacement cone springs.  I assume they had exhausted the obvious sources, such as McMaster:  https://www.mcmaster.com/conical-springs/confined-space-conical-compression-springs/

[subscriber]

Now that I have the DAR back together, I have opportunity to share some pics I snapped in haste when I had it apart:

The barrel is 17.75" from breech to muzzle.  As the transfer port is in from the breech end, the effective length is a probably closer to 17".

Considering the barrel so heavy, why on earth did they machine down the last inch to 9.3 mm in diameter?  It seems like an invitation to bend the barrel, if you banged the shroud at the muzzle.
 
Yes, that barrel stub carries the square section part, a rather restrictive looking 4-channel vent to the rear of the shroud, that you see in my hand with the baffles.  The radial space between the barrel OD and shroud ID is only about 1/16".  Not a very large volume, and not a very direct flow from the first baffle to get there.

There are 5 baffles; each 24 mm long from shoulder to shoulder (they nest to align to each other).  They are not a very close fit in the shroud ID.  Before you tighten the baffle capture nut, you can get the shroud to move sideways, back and forth with an obvious clunk, until all the end-space slack is taken up with the nut.  Perhaps winding tape around the baffles could make them align with the shroud better.  Then again, it depends on if you are a believer in free floating shrouds, independent of the barrel...

By the way, how tight should that retainer nut with the two holes (red arrows) be?  I just used an Allen wrench to drive it, with about 10 lb at a tangent (perhaps 3 inch.lb), alternating between holes.

The center hole in the baffles is a tight 5.53 mm.  The endcap's ID is 5.6 mm.  That part is begging to be back bored to act as one last baffle, rather than have a long tight path for the pellet to fly through. 

I had a hard time seeing the muzzle, so I took a bunch of flash pictures, hoping to get a clear one.  From the few I am showing here, I get the impression that the crown is off center.  Apparently not the only one...

All things considered, if the DAR rifles shoot accurately and are quiet, then all the above criticisms seem somewhat watered down; despite many details seeming less than ideal.

PS.  The bore is much smoother than that picture taken from the breech suggests.  That part of the image was dark until I boosted the Gamma.  Hence the image grain is making the barrel look less than glossy - which it appears when you look through it into a light directly.  I was hoping to catch a glimpse of the chamber throat in that picture.  One can see something, but perhaps not enough.

[Bob Pratl]

Now that I have the DAR back together, I have opportunity to share some pics I snapped in haste when I had it apart:

Thanks for the photos and your detailed report.

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

I'm wondering if a spring in place of the baffle retainer would be better?   Like in the Mrod, so the baffles actually have room to separate and allow air to flow back into the shroud.  Rocker1 sent me some of his K Baffle to try,  I got them sanded and drilled yesterday, but hive not had a chance to test them yet.  I know where made my Mrod quieter than the standard baffles.

[subscriber]

I think that a spring pushing the baffles forward could work.  It would accommodate the differences in thermal expansion between the steel barrel and the aluminum shroud.  Locking the parts down with threaded "nuts" is asking for a temperature sensitive point of impact...

Pushing the baffles backward would require a spring strong enough to prevent the baffles from slapping back and forth on every shot.  Clacking noises may be worse than popping noises.

Despite the primitive arrangement, the DAR's baffles seems to work rather well.  The simplest improvement would be to make them with a 60 degree cone, rather than flat - just as was done with the Gen2 Marauder over the Ge1 Marauder.

The shroud ID is rather small.  It limits one in using many of the otherwise clever airflow "improvements".  Can't hurt to try something else.

I notice that the stock DAR baffles have very thin walls.  At first I thought they were aluminum.  However, I am pretty sure they are just a dense stiff plastic.  Much more space efficient than a thick-walled filament welded 3D print would be.

[BTair]

got my .25 mostly sighted in over the weekend, but having a hard time getting consistent groups due to the trigger. The adjustment screw makes very little difference, at least until you turn it in too far and can't cock the gun.  How do you get to the trigger?  With the stock off, I removed the two bolts at the bottom of the trigger guard, but it's still tight -- do you need to punch out those roll pins to get the trigger guard off?

[tracker1955]

Someone said you can take the action out of the stock and through the back of the trigger housing put some grease on the components which helped greatly. I don't remember my Gen 1 having a stiff trigger pull after adjusting, although you may like yous lighter than I had mine.

[subscriber]

How do you get to the trigger?  With the stock off, I removed the two bolts at the bottom of the trigger guard, but it's still tight -- do you need to punch out those roll pins to get the trigger guard off?

This part of an old thread may help:  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146178.msg1489762#msg1489762

Else, you could try "boosting" your trigger: 

Take the cap off the back of the receiver and remove the hammer spring.  Get a rod or tube that fits inside the hammer spring seat.  6" long should be enough.  Longer OK too.

Cock the hammer and close the cocking lever.  Place the rod end against the hammer, in the spring seat.  Push down on the rod with perhaps 25 to 50 lb (estimate 50 to 100 % more force than the cocked hammer spring normally does).  While applying that greater than normal cocking force, release the hammer with the trigger.  Repeat 10 times.

Reinstall the hammer spring and cap.  Cock the hammer and release the trigger.  If you have depressurized your gun, do not dry fire; else the hammer blow to the valve is not cushioned.  Then, hold the cocking lever open, just at the point where the sear clicks, so releasing the trigger slides the sear at full hammer spring force, but does not allow the hammer to slam forwards.

I would lubricate the sear area generously before boosting.  The idea is to burnish the steel surfaces, not gall them.  The latter is more likely if the parts are dry.  Any lube other than silicone oil should do.  Molly grease or oil should prevent galling, while still letting burnishing pressure through.

If boosting at a given force does not improve matters, increase the force by 50%; and so on; until you feel like something will break, or you run out of strength.  Remember that the force at the cocking lever is less than at the hammer...  Try compressing the hammer spring to its cocked length to get an idea of what 100% force is.

Or, you could figure out how to take the trigger apart to get to the sear.  From memory after reading the linked thread, getting it back together can be tricky.

[Dan H]

I made my triggers way better by taking off the stock there is a rectangular hole area in the back of the trigger assembly- that if you look inside you can see the sear part click into the hammer if you pull the lever back but not quite cocked you can see that part that clicks into the hammer ,

 I put a small dab of synthetic grease right on that part  that clicks into the hammer , and then cycled the trigger over 200 time's by cocking the gun hanging on to the open lever so the hammer does not smack and fire the valve off ,and pulling the trigger cocked this way , so the parts are lubed while breaking in to each other , after doing this over 200 times -ad another very small dab of grease to that part again , and you should see a big difference in the way the trigger acts    .... very simple ,and you don't even have to take much apart except taking off the stock ... 

[subscriber]

Thanks Dan,

Your trigger break-in sounds less aggressive than mine, but essentially states that using the gun a lot (even without shooting pellets) will improve it.

I would add that if your method does not work for extreme cases, such owners should turn in the hammer spring cap as far as it will go, while still allowing the gun to cock. Higher contact pressure, lubed should displace the metal sticking up. 

If that metal wants to wear off, rather than be smeared down, that is OK too.  As long as it does not kick up metal and try to cold weld to the mating part.  That is where the lube comes in...

Funny thing; half of gun owners believe that lubing the trigger mechanism is bad.  I believe that any steel surface that is not sealed should have oil or grease on it to prevent corrosion. 

A much more aggressive method would be to add JB compound to those surfaces .  That would the need to be flushed out after the desired results were achieved, or the trigger was completely messed up; and needed to be opened anyway.

My mineral oil lubed trigger now has just a hint of a "pop" before actually breaking.  It is close enough to good that I don't feel the need to take it apart and polish surfaces that will polish themselves.  You just offered a way to accelerate that, that does not seem abusive.

[RDB]

Can any of you turn the trigger adjustment screw in far enough that the gun will discharge?  Actually take the second stage creep out?

[subscriber]

Rod,

I have not tried to see what the limit is for turning in that screw.  The manual warns about it, so I stopped before I thought I was close.  Perhaps, I need to find out if turning the screw in will eventually eliminate the sear engagement depth, and discharge the gun.  Else, how does one know how close you are...

This will have to wait until I have the energy to pump the gun up from zero...