DAR Gen II is now available

[subscriber]

What screw to degas guys?

It is explained on page 5 of the manual.  Talks about the stock being removed to reach the screw.  Screw "L" is just in front of the underside of the receiver, on the airtube. 

If you have a new DAR, you have the manual.  If used, I can post those pages here...

Unboxing as I type.....

[nervoustrigger]

Paul, how does the Tanto attach?  Clamps onto the OD or threads on?

[avator]

Not a pickle fan.... Kosher or otherwise.
I might be able to grab a few minutes of daylight to step outside and crack a few shots off before work in the morning. Been pretty cold in the mornings though.

Well, we don't all live in the boonies!  I have neighbors I have to contend with! 

Well... leave your pickles in the jar at home and pay us a visit sometime... 

[smythsg]

Bill, you did not get my DAR after all, mine came in today as well, one day earlier than UPS advised on their website. 

I didn't take any unboxing pictures, but mine was packaged just as you described. UPS also delivered mine after dark, so no shooting until tomorrow.  Visual inspection revealed a very small manufacturer defect on the underside of the shroud on the left side, but the spot was easily touched up with black marker and all looks good now.

A word of caution, I always check all the screws on a new gun, and found that almost all the screws were loose on my DAR. The barrel screws were so loose they were not even making contact with the barrel, and the shroud screws were loose also. I took the action out of the stock, and that screw was loose. While I had the action out I swabbed everything down with Ballistol and buttoned it back up securely.

Pictures can be deceiving, but it looks like my stock is much darker than yours. My stock has nice grain, but the finish could use some polish and smoothing. Overall, the gun seems tough and ready for some field use in the North GA mountains. Pictures tomorrow..

[subscriber]

I just had a good look around my .177 DAR that arrived today.  It looks and feels solidly made for the price of many a plastic stocked PCP. 

Holding it as if sighting offhand it feels very stable, but very much not dainty.  Holding it in one hand ahead of the trigger guard while maneuvering it around as I often do with my rifles, I was convinced it weighed all of 8 lb.  Nope;  6.9 lb according to my kitchen scale.   I think the tall stock and hardware higher up is creating a "top-heavy" feel that all but goes away in actual aiming. 

I may be tempted to core out the stock to shed some weight, once I am confident this one is a keeper.  Or reprofile the fore-end to be less blocky.  Certainly, I don't shoot off a forward rest so making that surface less of a shelf, or making it a shallower shelf would be tempting.  Inside coring would not require external refinishing...

The pressure gauge reads 1.4 BAR = 2058 PSI. 

With the bolt open, I looked down the barrel from the muzzle (the way your drill instructor would look to see if the barrel on your M1 Garand were clean).  The bore is glossy enough to make me happy.  Will take anther look after shooting enough cleaning pellets until they come out clean.  For those of you trying this, even oil soaked cleaning pellets leave the muzzle at well over Mach One; so be prepared for a very loud crack.  I may need to shoot two cleaning pellets backed by a wadcutter to keep the racket down... 

Removing the shroud encap seems to show a baffle stack that screws into something just inside the shroud, as that circular part has two holes for a two-pin wrench.  I did not try to unscrew that.  I did measure the endcap through hole.  I am surprised that it is only 5.6 mm or .220".

The shroud is held by a barrel band near the muzzle with zero give.  There might be an O-ring in there, but all I saw was a lack of daylight, so to speak.  So, not a free floated shroud, but potentially less prone to being knocked off zero.  I am confident that some enterprising souls will open up the hole in the barrel band to make the shroud free floating (although the side walls of the band seem thin).  I say, if it shoots well, leave it along.

Cocking lever travel is near effortless.  There is some float on the probe, but I think this will allow the probe to align with the pellet on chambering, rather than force it off center.  The probe floats effortlessly, until it meets and is centered by the breech O-ring in the barrel or barrel extension.

The butt stock design seems unusually raked at the toe, as if to ensure the stock won't slip off your shoulder.  It feels fine, and that is what matters.  I do not have any sights on yet, so just how it will feel will ultimately depend on the sight height.

I was convinced that I was going to buy an Avenger, eventually.  It has easy reg adjustability and very light weight, by virtue of the plastic stock.  This DAR was $310 including two extra mags, tax, and "free" shipping.  So, for a rifle that you set up to shoot one or two favorite projectiles, and then never adjust again, the lack of easy reg and hammer spring adjustment don't seem to matter that much.

I like the fact that the DAR is only 40".  That seems like the magic number for maneuverability to me.  Anything over 43" is just too long. The DAR's wood looks so much nicer and more "expensive", than any cheap plastic stock.  None of that hollow sound either...

[smythsg]

Funny you should mention that stock profile, as I laid the DAR right next to my SPA M16, and the profile on the SPA is more sophisticated and much less bulky. The overall length of both rifles is almost exactly the same with the factory pickle on the SPA, but the M16 feels a bit lighter (and it is).

[subscriber]

Steve,

A picture of the two side by side would be appreciated.

Thanks

[smythsg]

I will send that picture tomorrow.   

I noticed you mentioned that your pressure gauge read in BAR, and the manual that came with my rifle mentioned BAR, but my rifle shows pressure in MPa. That manual I mentioned also showed the old style magazine and not the new style, so I assume it is out of date, probably for the Gen1 rifles?

[subscriber]

Steve,

I may have done a translation, that led to confusion:  My gauge reads in MPa.  I translated that to Atmospheres to make distinction that it was not PSI.  The redline starts a little above 200 MPa.  In other words, not 2900 PSI fill but 3000, or a touch more.

[subscriber]

What screw to degas guys?

To use degassing screw:

Take stock off.  There is one bolt in front of trigger guard.  Degassing screw is on underside of air tube; just ahead of receiver - see image below.

From manual:
Unscrew degassing screw slowly, until air can be heard escaping.  Do not remove completely.  After air venting sound has stopped, turn screw another 1/4 turn counter clockwise to ensure all pressure has vented.

[subscriber]

I heeded Steve's warning about loose screws: 

The screw securing the cocking arm hinge was loose on my .177 DAR2.  I was very gentle with it, as it has a tiny hex.  I then added a drop of wicking Locktite to the screw head, inverted the receiver so it would not run into the cocking arm, and blotted the excess.

The caps crews holding the trigger guard on were loose.

The single cap screw holding on the stock was tight enough to pop as I undid it.  The receiver is a very snug fit in the stock.  At first I was looking for the other screw that must be holding the parts together.

The barrel retaining screws clearly have locking fluid applied at the factory. I check tightened them, without pushing hard enough to actually move them.  Gave the shroud retaining screws a very light snugging.  They are so small that they are likely to strip before they go "tight".

Set the trigger lighter by turning the adjustment screw in one rev.  Still on the heavy side, but noticeably lighter.  Trigger return spring probably contributes more than half the trigger weight.

I dry fired the gun to feel the trigger adjustment.  The gun was surprisingly quiet.  Should be even quieter with a pellet, providing that it is heavy enough to stay subsonic.

As I am more interested in shot count than peak power, and want to be able to use pellets lighter than 10 grains, I backed off the hammer spring by one turn (should make it even quieter).  I may have to turn it back in by 1/4 turn, as the adjustment screw is now slightly proud of the back of the receiver.  Turning the screw took very little effort - I am actually concerned with the screw migrating in use.  Yes, this seems silly before actually measuring pellet velocity, but it is easy to undo, should I want to.  My goal is around 850 FPS with 8 grain pellets.

Next step - cleaning the barrel; then some chrony shots to set the velocity near where I want it.  Then, back into the stock, before fitting some sights...

The stock is quite bulky in the forearm.  Lots of opportunity to core that out.  I am thinking of plunging a pattern of holes with a decent margin around them, using my milling machine.  Don't want to make the stock obviously flexible - might happen if one cuts one long wide slot.  May have to core out the butt stock too (from under the recoil pad); else the overall balance could be upset.  Would be happy taking 1/2 to 1 lb out...

[subscriber]

Got some indication of velocity with the hammer spring backed out one turn from the way the .177 DAR arrived:

RWS 9.3 grain Supermag:  904 FPS : 16.9 FPE
H&N 7.3 grain Excite Econ (old version): 972 FPS : 15.3 FPE

I turned the screw out another turn and managed to get one reading with the Supermags:  850 FPS : 14.9 FPE.  At this point the pressure was just dipping below 100 MPa on the gauge.

As this is still a bit hot for my purposes, and I would have to modify the stock to back out the hammer spring even by this much.  So, I decided to remove the spring so that I can measure it.  That way, I might make an informed choice towards buying a less energetic replacement.  As I have this info, it might be of benefit to others:


Stock .177 DAR2 hammer spring.  This is after exercising it by shooting the rifle perhaps 20 times.  So, a new unused spring may be a little longer.

OD:  10.88 mm or 0.428"
Wire diameter: 1.19 mm or 0.047"
Uncompressed length: 48 mm or 1.189"
Number of active coils is 10 or 10.5 depending on how you want to call it. See image below.

ID as a reference, with less confidence due to possible end-coil interference at caliper beak:  8.5 mm or 0.335"


Nominal hammer spring preload (uncocked) as the air rifle was received:  16.44 mm : 0.647"
So, the spring's nominal installed (uncocked) length is 31.6 mm : 1.24"

The pitch on the cap's thread looks to be about 1.5 mm : 0.059"

[smythsg]

Shot my DAR .25 for the first time this morning, first mag from a full fill, 25.39 JSB ranged from a high of 888fps to a low of 881fps with most shots right at 885fps. Reg seemed pretty consistant for the first shots fired, and the magazine worked flawlessly. It did take some effort to close the bolt on the first pellet, but it seemed to ease up some with the remaining pellets. I have my SPA M16 shooting the same pellets at 900 fps, (Huma Reg) and the DAR's bark is a bit louder than the M16, with a different pitch to the sound.

I use my guns mostly for hunting so shot count is not as important as power in my case. I plan to adjust the hammer spring up a bit to bring the fps in line with the M16 or slightly higher, and see how the accuracy looks after cleaning the barrel.

[smythsg]

This is the picture of the DAR sitting next to the SPA M16.

[Nvreloader]

Sub
Thank you for the details on the 177 Dar. I will be following along on this report.

My 177 still sets inside it's plastic sleeping bag..............   I have been too tired after the tree bucking, cutting fire wood etc,
maybe this weekend...............

Seeing the spec's on the hammer spring, I'll try a Flat wire spring, as the spec's are very close,
except the length that can be adjusted etc. 
Spec's for the flat wire spring are: O/S dia of .415", I/S hole diameter of .265", wire thickness of.025" x .070" wide/flat,
length 2.620", 15 coils, wire weight rating of 18#'s.

This is the stub end,
I cut from a 5"+ long OEM spring for the QB hammer spring, this OEM 5" long spring reaches coil bound in 1.030". 
They are a very easy spring to work with.

Thanks,
Don

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Paul, how does the Tanto attach?  Clamps onto the OD or threads on?

I had an adapter made, it screws onto the end of the shroud and has a ½-20 UNF treaded end to attach the DonnyFL.  It retains the stock baffles, so now it's really quiet!

[nervoustrigger]

Okay thanks.  Someone on another forum was asking about it. I measured the threads at M18.5 x 0.75 which struck me as an oddball size.  Is your adapter a custom one-off or is the maker willing to make and sell them?

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Okay thanks.  Someone on another forum was asking about it. I measured the threads at M18.5 x 0.75 which struck me as an oddball size.  Is your adapter a custom one-off or is the maker willing to make and sell them?

It's my buddy Stefan from Serbia.  He actually had made me one 2 years ago for the Gen 1 DAR, I just sent him the dimensions again and he made me another because I lost the original!  I'm sure he would be happy to make more if there is an interest.  He has an eBay store, I can ask him to post them there.

[nervoustrigger]

Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested. 

What is the thread callout by the way?

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Yeah that would be great and I’ll relay it to him and others who may be interested. 

What is the thread callout by the way?

I have no idea what the threads are, I just take pictures of the end cap with some measurements and e-mail them to him, and he somehow or another makes an adapter that fits!  LOL!  His stuff it really nice! 

Here's his eBay store, I'll let you know if he has extras to post.

https://www.ebay.com/str/agcustompartsandaccesories

He's making me one for the Pishtov RAS-01 now, that thing has a really odd sized threaded barrel inside the shroud, so it will probably be a really custom piece!