About To Fill 18cu/ft Pony Bottle With ShoeBox For The First Time...?

[Hangtown-Shooter]

I could use some additional guidance please.  I’ve been trying to find info online, but my search fu is weak... 

How long should I expect it to take to fill a 100 ci 4500 psi cylinder from empty using a ShoeBox Max?

Am I supposed to shut it down every 20 min to allow the compressor to cool and re-lube the pistons?

Do I just leave everything connected and pressurized with valves open the entire process?

I picked up the ShoeBox used without instructions, and until now I have only used it to top off guns directly so I’m still learning...

Any other tips or advice is appreciated - Thanks!

[AlanMcD]

There were lots of different levels of Shoebox compressors made over the years, so if you could tell us a bit more about yours we could give you more specific information.  Without knowing more all I can say is that the very first Shoebox units probably put out about 2 cubic feet of air per hour, but the bulk of the Pre-F8 compressors put out about 4 cubic feet per hour or so.  And the F8 did 8 per hour, and the F10 did 10 cubic feet per hour.

You don't need to stop the unit to let it cool, but if you have one of the early ones without a cooling fan I would suggest running it without the cover on it and have a fan blowing over the cylinders.  Unless you have the "auto oiler" felt pads on the rods, they do need to be stopped every 2-3 hours to have a dab of white lithium grease applied to the piston rods; if you have the auto oiler you just need to add a few drops of silicone oil to the pads every 10 hours of run time or so.

As far as for how long a full fill will take, dived the 18 cubic feet of the tank by the approximate fill rate of the unit.  Do be sure to note the total fill time so that you can calculate your own personal fill rate for future reference.

[Hangtown-Shooter]

Thanks Alan.
 
 I believe what I have is the last generation of the “Max” variant. It is definitely pre-F8, although it is also new enough to have the belt drive, hardened pistons, and finned cylinders. It did not include a fan originally, but the housing was made to accept one so I have installed one.

So far I am about an hour into the fill, and the gauge on the cylinder is showing 1200 psi or so... I’ve got a timer running to keep track of how long it takes.

Meanwhile I’m grilling some Chicken Shawarma to help me pass the time while I keep an eye one the compressor and cylinder! 

[Hangtown-Shooter]

UPDATE: Well, here we are 3-1/2 hrs in, and the gauge on the HPA cylinder has finally made it to 2k psi... and the compressor shut itself off for some reason?
I disconnected everything for tonight while I reassess my game plan. Maybe the “clacker” shut off is out of whack? It normally fills my tube guns to 3K in about 10 min. and I still need to shut it off manually so it doesn’t over fill?

This may have been a bad idea. Hopefully I will never need to fill from zero again ha! 😬
I wonder what it’s gonna take to go from 3K to 4.5K?

[AlanMcD]

Dave,

It is not a bad idea to work with a tank - these Shoebox units are rock solid and plug away great for hours on end, and it does not take hours on end to top up a Guppy sized tank.  My Shoebox is a lightly modified Max, and I get about 6.5 cubic feet per hour out of it feeding it air at about 100 psi, so it can easily top up a Guppy from 3K to 4.5K in an hour, and most times I fill from about 3.5K up just because I can, so my typical run time is about 40 minutes or so, typically once a week or so.

Sadly,  I suspect you have a leak somewhere.  Since you can fill your guns to 3000 and the tank is not getting there, I would check that out first - maybe the vent knob is leaking some?  That said, 10 minutes to fill a "tube" gun seems a bit on the long side, so maybe there is a bit of a leak in the Shoebox too - I don't bother to ever fill guns directly (the tank is SO much more convienient) but I could fill a Marauder from 2-3K in a little over 3 minutes with mine.

Once you get it sorted out you will love filling guns from your tank.

[Chris USA]

98 cu. in. Guppy Tank. 2 hours and 33 minutes to get 4600. Ran bout 20 minutes at a time and paused for 1/2 hr. while letting the fan run. Make sure felt pads are lubed, but not overly so. 2900-4500, 46 minutes. 3900-4300, 16 minutes. Leave cover on. It will direct air flow back through the motor.

I can not explain the shut off issue since it is filling direct to guns higher.

[Back_Roads]

 It may have to do with the mass of air in a tank vs a small gun revivor, More resistance due to the greater mass of HP air.

[AlanMcD]

I am thinking along James line too - the size of the tank matters relative to the ability to overcome the slow leak.  As I said before, I think 10 minutes is potentially long for "tube fill" and might indicate a leak somewhere on it's own.  When you move to the much larger tank, the dwell time is much higher letting more air leak over time.

I would use soapy water on all the fitting to see if there is a leak on any of the joints and fittings, but of course a leak can be internal with the Shoebox too in terms of being around the o-rings.  That would take a "rebuild" to fix, and while it might seem daunting at first, there are videos on line and it is a pretty straightforward thing to do.


 

[Hangtown-Shooter]

Thanks guys.

 I read somewhere that the motor is thermally protected and will shut itself down if it gets too hot, and then restart automatically once it has cooled back down... I think that is likely what happened yesterday.

 I didn’t have time to mess with it today, but I will look into it again tomorrow and see what I can find.

[KnifeMaker]

Time to pull out the spray bottle with a bit of dish soap in the water.    Spray all fittings, So not spray the front of the cylinders where the felt pads are. 


Spray the fittings to the bottle as well. Foster o rings can leak.

[Wayne52]

Every two times I top off my 1 hour SCBA's with mine I'll go ahead and add new desiccant beads between the shop compressor (Cal. Air Tools) and F10.  I check the lube of both types of lube (silicone & white lithium grease) every fourth or fifth time as well.  Desiccant beads are so inexpensive I don't bother drying out the old ones because a quart bottle of them will last a very long time, usually I replace them before they start turning pink.  I also tilt my shop compressor forward every time to bleed the moisture from it.  I suspect that the shop compressor catches the majority of moisture however in Michigan I doubt we get the amount of moisture that will be introduced into the compressed air will be as much as in say Alabama or Louisiana.  Different locations will make a big difference I'm sure.  I pretty much have mine set up just like Bob Sterne has his because he seems to be a very bright individual and I wholehearted take his lead seriously. 

I topped both my SCBA's from 3500 - 4200psi yesterday one early in the morning and after I got back home I did the other one.