Problems with my D460

[Mark 611]

Andy, let me say this to you, u do not need anymore then a 12ftlb rifle for what u are doing, if you like ur 460? pull out the spring and cut about 4 coils off of it! springs are cheap! $20 bucks if your not happy with the results! u can cut off all the coils u want as long as u leave enough so the spring has a tic of preload, if not u can add a few synthetic washers back inside the piston to space it back up, instead of selling the rifle try making it something u will like by taming it! If u still can't make friends with the gun then sell it! The only reason I still have a big magnum springer like my full power 460 in .22cal is because I cut my teeth yrs ago on these types of spring guns yrs ago and I know how to shoot them, But I prefer my 12ftlb and sub 12ftlb rifles for most of the shooting I do, I have no problems shooting a 12ftlb gun out to 50+yds in .22cal or other and shooting pest birds or rabbits even a squirrels with a head shot if your good enough to do so? But shooting these lowered powered guns makes it a lot easier to get the shot placement once u learn how to shoot them at these distances 

[dalvipravin]

I totally agree with Mark ..

I dont mind taking the power down for my .177 D460 but she's already putting 840fps with 8.44 grn ... Am sharing fee pics , please let me know if the breech seal , spring piston seal looks okay .

Also the spring I have in my rifle is around 30 turns .. so how muany turns  full power spring has ?

Cheers
Pravin

[Mark 611]

IIRC, 32 or 34? coils

[dalvipravin]

IIRC, 32 or 34? coils

34 including the end flat ones ..

If stock is also 34 and am getting 820 840 fps in .177 is it degraded due to some issue or its normal for .177 D460 ?

Cheers
Pravin

[Mark 611]

U could have a seal issue! How many shots on the spring?

[dalvipravin]

U could have a seal issue! How many shots on the spring?

Not much may be 1500 to 2000 ..

Do you mean piston seal or breech seal ? I did the tissue paper test and there is no leak from the breech area .

Cheers pravin

[Mark 611]

Ur good I thought it was ur 460 was shooting that speed my bad

[dtdtdtdt]

"There are 2 issues I’m having with it, firstly, the scope ran out of windage adjustment to the left, and still is off. I’ve tried 2 different scopes, different rings, turning rings around, etc. am I missing something?"


To me, the most puzzling part of your problem is the windage adjustment problem.  There is no reason you shouldn't be able to line the scope up with the bore properly. 

I would try to solve that problem first.  You mention different scopes, different bases, etc.  That suggests one of two things, the rail on the rifle itself is off kilter - unlikely!  Or someone bent the barrel either accidentally or on purpose. Did you buy the rifle new in the box or used?  Being dropped in shipping can cause damage that doesn't show up easily.  I suggest taking the scope off and eye-balling down from the rail forward to see if the bore appears to line up with the scope mount.  a good straight edge might help too.   

Another problem could be assembly of the rings to the base.  Some rings have a reversible clamp to allow use on the 11mm rail or on the 3/8" grooves in most US 22 rifles.  It's easy to get the clamp piece wrong as there is not a big difference. 

An earlier responder mentioned reading and using the Hawke Optic instructions.  I read through them and they are very good.  I always use a torque wrench for rings and bases and NEVER have any problems with them coming loose.  I have three different ones but find the Wheeler FAT wrench adequate for all firearm uses. 

Regarding hold, recoil, and general springer shooting issues.  I started with a Chinese Walther Force 1000 - a fairly powerful rifle and could never get it to shoot consistently.  I felt like I had to re-learn it everytime I shot it.  Also two friends bought the Gamo's that promised 1400f/s.  Neither could get them to shoot well for the same reason. 

As a result of this, I bought a Diana/RWS 54 used.  It has the "recoilless" sliding sledge system. It is not hold sensitive at all and the shooter has no felt recoil. You can forget the artillery hold or any other incantations for accurate shooting.  Handle and shoot just like a PCP or any powder firearm.  They are also in the magnum category and until the Diana ZR base was developed known as scope-killers.  (I didn't have any problems with mine but bought ZR bases anyway.) 

It is highly accurate, quite powerful, and just fine for vermin (over 400 chipmunks at last count and my brother who bought a 22 D54 at my recommendation has killed at least 27 woodchucks, several feral cats, oppossums, raccoons, etc off his front porch).  Plenty enough for squirrels etc.  I now have 2 (.177 and .20) both shooting around 17-18fpe.   They can be tuned hotter but this is fine out to 50yds.   Accuracy is great at 20yds average of 0.22" CTC for 20 5 shot groups.  50yds around 1" depending on the glare and wind. (I have vision issues that makes sunny days very difficult for me.) Right nowI am waiting for the new version the D54Pro in 22 caliber - hopefully by Christmas!!

If you get tired of playing with the 460, look at the 54. 

[Madeintheuk]

"There are 2 issues I’m having with it, firstly, the scope ran out of windage adjustment to the left, and still is off. I’ve tried 2 different scopes, different rings, turning rings around, etc. am I missing something?"


To me, the most puzzling part of your problem is the windage adjustment problem.  There is no reason you shouldn't be able to line the scope up with the bore properly. 

I would try to solve that problem first.  You mention different scopes, different bases, etc.  That suggests one of two things, the rail on the rifle itself is off kilter - unlikely!  Or someone bent the barrel either accidentally or on purpose. Did you buy the rifle new in the box or used?  Being dropped in shipping can cause damage that doesn't show up easily.  I suggest taking the scope off and eye-balling down from the rail forward to see if the bore appears to line up with the scope mount.  a good straight edge might help too.   

Another problem could be assembly of the rings to the base.  Some rings have a reversible clamp to allow use on the 11mm rail or on the 3/8" grooves in most US 22 rifles.  It's easy to get the clamp piece wrong as there is not a big difference. 

An earlier responder mentioned reading and using the Hawke Optic instructions.  I read through them and they are very good.  I always use a torque wrench for rings and bases and NEVER have any problems with them coming loose.  I have three different ones but find the Wheeler FAT wrench adequate for all firearm uses. 

Regarding hold, recoil, and general springer shooting issues.  I started with a Chinese Walther Force 1000 - a fairly powerful rifle and could never get it to shoot consistently.  I felt like I had to re-learn it everytime I shot it.  Also two friends bought the Gamo's that promised 1400f/s.  Neither could get them to shoot well for the same reason. 

As a result of this, I bought a Diana/RWS 54 used.  It has the "recoilless" sliding sledge system. It is not hold sensitive at all and the shooter has no felt recoil. You can forget the artillery hold or any other incantations for accurate shooting.  Handle and shoot just like a PCP or any powder firearm.  They are also in the magnum category and until the Diana ZR base was developed known as scope-killers.  (I didn't have any problems with mine but bought ZR bases anyway.) 

It is highly accurate, quite powerful, and just fine for vermin (over 400 chipmunks at last count and my brother who bought a 22 D54 at my recommendation has killed at least 27 woodchucks, several feral cats, oppossums, raccoons, etc off his front porch).  Plenty enough for squirrels etc.  I now have 2 (.177 and .20) both shooting around 17-18fpe.   They can be tuned hotter but this is fine out to 50yds.   Accuracy is great at 20yds average of 0.22" CTC for 20 5 shot groups.  50yds around 1" depending on the glare and wind. (I have vision issues that makes sunny days very difficult for me.) Right nowI am waiting for the new version the D54Pro in 22 caliber - hopefully by Christmas!!

If you get tired of playing with the 460, look at the 54.

I’ve had quite a few people recommend the d54 or 56 based on the sledge design, but my problem is their weight. I will not be using this from a bench, it’s going to be dragged through the woods with me, and  shot offhand or balanced on trees and such.
The 460 is pushing it already in the weight department. Not to mention their tendency to kill scopes. I’m horrible with open sights past 35yds, and I’ll be shooting chipmunks which are even tougher with open sights....for me anyway. I may be at a point of just throwing in the towel, and getting something more designed for what I want. I’ve been looking at the beeman R9, or similar. Something not too heavy, medium power, and accurate. 

[Mark 611]

How far are u planning on shooting?

[Madeintheuk]

How far are u planning on shooting?

Sub 50yds. Further than that, and I’m using my pcp’s.

[mpbby]

Just to let you know..

IF/WHEN you have a really trustable scope - AND - zeroed within its comfort zone..

There is an interesting Brazilian invention to help you aiming at the field

Although narrated in Portuguese, I think the images are enough  (any doubts, be free to ask me)

youtube.com/watch?v=zuQ2DNccmqs

[Madeintheuk]

Just to let you know..

IF/WHEN you have a really trustable scope - AND - zeroed within its comfort zone..

There is an interesting Brazilian invention to help you aiming at the field

Although narrated in Portuguese, I think the images are enough  (any doubts, be free to ask me)

youtube.com/watch?v=zuQ2DNccmqs

Why is everyone so against the vortex crossfire? Am I missing something? I was told by them that it was magnum springer rated. They also have a no questions lifetime warranty. I figured it was a no brained. Great glass, easy to use. Not sure you can range with it, but it’s an all round nice Chinese scope. I would rather not spend $500 on a scope for a gun I will not use regularly, and the vortex checked all the boxes. If I’m wrong, and someone knows something about this scope that I don’t, please share!

[Yogi]

Vortex makes great stuff.  the Crossfire is one of their cheapest ones.  Step up a little in price gets you a MUCH better Vortex.

-Y

[dtdtdtdt]

I agree with you on the weight!  Mine weigh just at 12pounds each.  I don't do woods walking any more as I am a bit broken up and only see with one eye, depth perception is a mean woman (an aside, I typed b@@@ch and the spelling genie turned it into mean woman! rather than female dog!!!  Political correctness in a computer!!!!  Holy dog dung!!!!) and I don't need another broken neck - one was quite enough thank you!  I shoot chipmunks out the kitchen window as I have a gigantic population in the woods behind my home!! 

As for scopes, I had one Hawke that I sold when I upgraded to Sightrons.  I used a Centerpoint on my D54 while I was deciding on a new one.   Cheap scopes have been my choice for many rifles as I am basically a cheapskate!!! 

I have nothing to say about the quality of your scope.  Any scope should be usable until it breaks.  MY puzzlement is on WHY the scope couldn't be properly zeroed.  Hence my suggestion on checking things out for problems.

[mpbby]

Just a misunderstanding.. I was not blaming your current scope.

I was saying in general terms, because any scope may become unreliable when it stops holding zero.  I have Sightron and Vortex Diamondback that reached the end of their lifespans.

Nowadays, when the inconsistency lasts several rounds, I do a 'scope test' to see if the scope is still able to hold zero (in the circumstances I need).

Regarding your current scope, it may be still fine, but it's essential that you find a way to keep its adjustments within the comfort zone when zeroing.

For example, you could stretch a line over the rifle to see if the barrel is horizontally misaligned.

[Madeintheuk]

So I’m currently in talks with hector medina on what to do with my debacle, and I’m also dropping the scope this weekend, and I’m going to try some open sighted groups at 15yds to see if my scope is part of the issue. Thanks for all the help. I can come across as stubborn, and ignorant a lot, and I’m sorry. I truly appreciate all of you and the constructive ideas you have given me. I’m not willing to give up just yet (or maybe it’s just my bipolar getting the best of me). I will ty and update as I go along.

[Artie]

The Crossfire is not a great choice for a stock 460. Eventually the 460 will kill the scope if it hasn't already. There are better choices for less money out there. Do stick with 30mm tube scopes, they are a plus for magnum guns (usually more resilient to recoil)
You have got to figure out the windage issue. Learn how to mechanically center a known good scope and group three shots. Doesn't have to be an expensive scope to do this, but it does have to be a properly working scope. Shooting from open sights won't determine if the barrel is bent left or right unless using a peep or similar sight mounted on the dovetail. Either of those two choices will tell you how far off the barrel is from centerline.
The 460 is not easy to cock, it is one of the hardest guns I have to cock. That is why I shoot at 700 fps with a weaker spring (. 22). It is however, one of my most accurate, even with reduced power. Reduced power also aids to scope life.
Good luck with your gun. A proper 460 is a fine gun but it is not for weak arms. I shoot mine from a bench but it is not a bench gun. It is really an offhand hunter in my humble opinion.