cast or swage? or both?

[aimsmall]

I want to start producing my own projectiles. Mainly .45 for now (.457)
I'm not sure if I want to swage or cast yet, my one question I am ignorant on and failing in find information on is...
Are there lots of dies available to swage or are there only a few. I just can't seem to determine if there is a variety like there is in molds.
I'm sure it's safe to assume there are less options available as molds but as long as there is a decent selection..

[Wayne52]

I would cast myself, swage dies are very expensive in comparison plus being a large projectile casting would be a piece of cake for a good casting I think.

[nielsenammo]

Swaging big bore takes a lot of force so if you decide to swage you would want to buy a big heavy duty press.  If your primary goal is big bore I would cast.

[Wayne52]

Nick I do envy the people that can afford to swage their own because any small caliber (especially .177) would definitely come out excellent if you had a good swage die and press.

[aimsmall]

I would cast myself, swage dies are very expensive in comparison plus being a large projectile casting would be a piece of cake for a good casting I think.

swageing is expensive compared to casting overall, the startup on casting is pennies compared to the swage setup for sure.
I would agree with your statement on the large projectile being easier to cast.
With swage though it's perfect everytime ,no power needed and quicker?. Pros and cons for each, cost being a huge one.
Initially I'd probably get 2 dies at most anyway just because of the initial outlay of cash, might start off casting initially because of that outlay too.
Still researching though. Either way, that investment will pay itself back over time.

edited to add, corbin seems to have a nice press setup for .45, but I need to clarify with them on which one they would recommend.

[Loren]

With swage though it's perfect every time ,no power needed and quicker?.

That may be setting your expectation pretty high for swaging.  As in any manufacturing there are setups and variable to control to get good low variance results.

[maraudinglizard]

Casting is less expensive, you can recycle your lead, there are molds from NOE and Accurate that are designed for air guns that are reasonably priced. You can get a casting set up and accessories for under $150. I cast from .22 to .457 and reuse the lead I shoot that is trapped in a pellet trap. Swagging is a whole different ball game when it comes to cost. Good Luck.

[Mark Davis]

One swage die can give adjustable slug length and weight.
Different external punches can change the base, from cup, flat, to boattail.
Different internal punches can give flat point or hollow point.

Lead can be reused, by melting and pouring cores, this alone is pretty much the same work as casting slugs.
Well made swagings will be be more uniform than castings.

[triggertreat]

With swage though it's perfect every time ,no power needed and quicker?.

Well, you may be jumping ahead to much with that statement.  You have to consider imperfections in the lead wire, and there's no way you could produce projectiles quicker than with casting with a four cavity mold even if you got a head start unless you go automated.

[Bob Pratl]

I like the precision of a swaged bullet that I cannot achieve through casting/sizing.
Does anyone make a swaging die that can resize a cast bullet instead just resizing the diameter to remove any casting imperfections and achieve better
concentricity? Would this still require a heavy duty press?

[aimsmall]

With swage though it's perfect every time ,no power needed and quicker?.

Well, you may be jumping ahead to much with that statement.  You have to consider imperfections in the lead wire, and there's no way you could produce projectiles quicker than with casting with a four cavity mold even if you got a head start unless you go automated.

Do you swage? how long does it take for your lead to get to pour temp?
How many times have you seen &^^& lead wire?

[Loren]

Swaging big bore takes a lot of force so if you decide to swage you would want to buy a big heavy duty press.  If your primary goal is big bore I would cast.

VERY sound advice from a swaging PRO.

[aimsmall]

Swaging big bore takes a lot of force so if you decide to swage you would want to buy a big heavy duty press.  If your primary goal is big bore I would cast.

VERY sound advice from a swaging PRO.

I know neilsen knows what he is talking about though.  I just bought ammo from him
But in all honestly, I'd rather keep food on my table than send him on a vacation lol with that said I like his ammo and will be ordering more till I decided what direction I'm going.
I am leaning heavily on swage though and the only person who has actually touched on the question I asked was Mark Davis.
Would have been nice for the swage god to actually contribute some real meat on the die question though.
He definitely doesn't need to worry about me competing with him, he is light years ahead and automated vs hand pressing with a press that would fit in a corner of a room.
His probably takes up a warehouse I'm sure...
PS, big bore won't be the only thing I want to produce I'm looking at a .30 cal as well so I will be making that as well.

[triggertreat]

With swage though it's perfect every time ,no power needed and quicker?.

Well, you may be jumping ahead to much with that statement.  You have to consider imperfections in the lead wire, and there's no way you could produce projectiles quicker than with casting with a four cavity mold even if you got a head start unless you go automated.

Do you swage? how long does it take for your lead to get to pour temp?
How many times have you seen &^^& lead wire?

No, I don't swage as I cast.  I don't have to swage to know about swaging.  There's' plenty of others I learn from that do swage.  As far as time to heat up, no longer than it takes you to cut off chips to swage with.  Let's be realistic on the lead supply.  I wish you well, and would like to swag just like the rest of us casting, but I am also realistic on that as well for my hobby.  It comes a point where purchasing slugs can be more economical verses other methods of acquiring them.

One thing I will add about casting is the ability to adjust the hardness of the melt however I wish.  I like to add a little more tin when I am preparing for a big hog hunt for the extra penetration in those tough skulls on the ones pushing 150 pounds plus.  Sure you can order wire to do the same, but hard to customize on that, regardless.

[maraudinglizard]

Here is something else to ponder in your quest. A casting set up can be portable. Sometimes you might be somewhere and need extra ammo, or you ran out of the house and forgot it, or your hunting buddy did the same thing, yes it does happen. The set up I have fits into a backpack which includes the melter(electric), cast iron pot for the fireside pours, pour ladle, molds and handles, ingot molds, gloves, safety glasses, pans to catch the pellets and sprue cuts, borax powder to clean the lead, thermometer, 3-5lb of lead ingots, and various other odds and ends needed for casting. Since I cast mostly pellets, I don't need to size anything but if I do, I have a hand press that clamps on to a flat surface. There is nothing more aggravating than being in a hunt camp in the middle of nowhere and don't have any ammo to hunt with. Good Luck.

[Wayne52]

The only time I swaged any was casting lead into blanks and swage the blank into a pellet.  They never would shoot good for me.  It was a kit from England.

[aimsmall]

Here is something else to ponder in your quest. A casting set up can be portable. Sometimes you might be somewhere and need extra ammo, or you ran out of the house and forgot it, or your hunting buddy did the same thing, yes it does happen. The set up I have fits into a backpack which includes the melter(electric), cast iron pot for the fireside pours, pour ladle, molds and handles, ingot molds, gloves, safety glasses, pans to catch the pellets and sprue cuts, borax powder to clean the lead, thermometer, 3-5lb of lead ingots, and various other odds and ends needed for casting. Since I cast mostly pellets, I don't need to size anything but if I do, I have a hand press that clamps on to a flat surface. There is nothing more aggravating than being in a hunt camp in the middle of nowhere and don't have any ammo to hunt with. Good Luck.

Lot of stuff to haul around lol, and makes the swage option way more appealing. what I'm looking to buy; a press is 22lbs and all you need is that, wire, wire cutter, gloves, dies and some lube?
 maybe more I'm still gathering information on equipment needed.
How well does the corbin swage work? I don't know but thats what I'm looking at buying possibly.

Triggertreat I only asked because maybe you had a comparison of the two's workflows.
I was looking at rotometals for lead wire, is the quality that bad that you can't extrude a decent pellet from it?
Also I see there are molds to make your own "wire" so technically one could custom make their own hardness of "wire" ..
You just need to make sure the die can handle the hardness of the lead since the pressure goes up exponentially and your press can handle that force obviously..
not really wanting to get into the pros and cons honestly, I was just looking to see what kind of dies are available.
What I've seen is probably enough for me anyway. HP and flat nose, what more does one need?
The biggest con I see is the initial cost.
Does anyone think 2500 rounds is a lot? because thats about where you'd break even on initial setup I think or close enough to it.


I worked in a foundry. Pouring lead is a step up from pouring candle wax and way below the specialty metals we poured. It is definitely within my capabilities.

[triggertreat]

Here is something else to ponder in your quest. A casting set up can be portable. Sometimes you might be somewhere and need extra ammo, or you ran out of the house and forgot it, or your hunting buddy did the same thing, yes it does happen. The set up I have fits into a backpack which includes the melter(electric), cast iron pot for the fireside pours, pour ladle, molds and handles, ingot molds, gloves, safety glasses, pans to catch the pellets and sprue cuts, borax powder to clean the lead, thermometer, 3-5lb of lead ingots, and various other odds and ends needed for casting. Since I cast mostly pellets, I don't need to size anything but if I do, I have a hand press that clamps on to a flat surface. There is nothing more aggravating than being in a hunt camp in the middle of nowhere and don't have any ammo to hunt with. Good Luck.

Lot of stuff to haul around lol, and makes the swage option way more appealing. what I'm looking to buy; a press is 22lbs and all you need is that, wire, wire cutter, gloves, dies and some lube?
 maybe more I'm still gathering information on equipment needed.
How well does the corbin swage work? I don't know but thats what I'm looking at buying possibly.

Triggertreat I only asked because maybe you had a comparison of the two's workflows.
I was looking at rotometals for lead wire, is the quality that bad that you can't extrude a decent pellet from it?
Also I see there are molds to make your own "wire" so technically one could custom make their own hardness of "wire" ..
You just need to make sure the die can handle the hardness of the lead since the pressure goes up exponentially and your press can handle that force obviously..
not really wanting to get into the pros and cons honestly, I was just looking to see what kind of dies are available.
What I've seen is probably enough for me anyway. HP and flat nose, what more does one need?
The biggest con I see is the initial cost.
Does anyone think 2500 rounds is a lot? because thats about where you'd break even on initial setup I think or close enough to it.


I worked in a foundry. Pouring lead is a step up from pouring candle wax and way below the specialty metals we poured. It is definitely within my capabilities.

$2500,  I don't think so, but that would be dependent on how much you actually shoot I guess.  I don't see prices in the future going in a reverse direction either, and is why I cast to offset the cost.  I just cast ~ 1200 slugs in a 4-5 hour time frame.  They are mostly gone and have already cast roughly 700 more since.  All within a months time, but I'm testing stuff and is not normal for me.

My apologies if I appeared to go off on a tangent.  My intent was to help you cover all the basis as best as I know them to be.

As far as lead, I clean my Rotometals lead at the start of casting.  There has never been a time where I didn't need to clean some swarf off the top.  Yes it's good quality lead, but not perfectly clean.

[Mark Davis]

I like the precision of a swaged bullet that I cannot achieve through casting/sizing.
Does anyone make a swaging die that can resize a cast bullet instead just resizing the diameter to remove any casting imperfections and achieve better
concentricity? Would this still require a heavy duty press?

You can use any bullet that is smaller diameter than the swage die,  and shorter than the cavity in the die.
For small diameter, a good reloading press will do. The power of the press needs to go up with larger diameter.
 
Hardened lead has been known to crack swage dies. Tin makes lead tougher.

Big hard powder burner bullets are swaged in dies too large to fit in a reloading press.

[nielsenammo]

I like the precision of a swaged bullet that I cannot achieve through casting/sizing.
Does anyone make a swaging die that can resize a cast bullet instead just resizing the diameter to remove any casting imperfections and achieve better
concentricity? Would this still require a heavy duty press?

You can use any bullet that is smaller diameter than the swage die,  and shorter than the cavity in the die.

You can use a smaller bullet but not too much smaller if you are using HP pins or you run the risk of the smaller diameter side loading the pin and breaking it.

Corbin is the only swage company to consider.  Been in business almost 50 years and has all the dies, punches and expertise you will ever need.