Getting my lazy butt off the bench...

[sfcnewy]

Wow, I am amazed at the excellent advice this post has generated!!
I recently retired from the army where I was a Designated Marksman, Master Gunner (Light and Heavy) and M4 Instructor.
North Country Gals advice was awesome as was Hectors.
What Hector called Natural Shooting Position, sounded a lot like what we called Natural Point of Aim.
To use/practice the Natural Point of Aim, When your sight is on target, close your eyes for a second or two then open them. If your Point of Aim (sight picture) has changed drastically, you are using your muscles too much to force the sight picture (sights on target). It is preferred to use the skeleton structure to hold the weapon sight on target. Kind of hard to explain/correct the nuances of each shooting position without "Eye Balling" your form. Maybe Google some air gun shooting competitions and closely inspect the shooters form? Everyone's body is different, so slight (very slight) modifications to the position are fine. You just need to experiment to find what works well for you.
My small tip for you is to remember that the first casualty of holding your breath too long is your eye sight. If you hold your breath for too long, your eyesight will become slightly blurred. (This will happen before muscle fatigue.) If this happens, set the weapon down for a minute or two and chill. Then get back at it.
One last, if you Google Army PRT Preparation Drills, try them before your shooting session. It really helps loosen you up. I still do them every morning, cause if I don't, I am a "hurtin unit."
Above all, keep it fun!!
With Regards
Ray

[WolfyW]

One thing I like to do to help with steadiness is to keep an Unloaded air rifle handy in the house, occasionally grab it and aim at a spot on the wall for at least 30 seconds. It goes without saying that all safety precautions are taken.

[mcoulter]

Yep, there's a ton of great advice here so far! 

Maybe I should have seen this coming, but I think the offhand plinking that I have been doing since picking up a used Beeman P1 is carrying over to help shooting the 34 offhand.   It's been a number of weeks since I shot the 34, but I was way more steady shooting this yesterday afternoon than I would have thought!   

These groups were shot sitting on the ground with my supporting elbow on my knee again.  Like in my recent P1 thread, I looking to finish up a tin of Superdome pellets.  Here are three groups of 10-shots.  I shot them from left to right.  So what felt cool was how I felt after finishing the last group.  I actually felt like I could shoot another 30 (if time allowed, which it didn't).   I also generally felt more stable.  I had a nice string of 5 shots in that right target that were nice and tight...  it also feels easier to make that brain to trigger connection that Hector mentioned earlier. 

Oh, I should also mention that I was adjusting my POA on that last group. 

Fun stuff :-)

[mcoulter]

I do hope to try a field target match someday so one of these looked like a fun "investment"   




I finally was able get out and give it a try today.  I've been doing my offhand practice at 25 yards so that's where I put the rat.  I have no idea which hit plate to use at any given distance, so I started out with the largest hole.  I got it to drop four out of five shots.




So I then dropped in the next smaller hole and ouch.  I only dropped it three out of ten times.  Yup, I'm gonna need some a lot more practice!

[mcoulter]

OK, I'm having fun with this now!

During the last couple of days of lunch time practice I have been hitting the kill zone 2-3 times out of 10 shots (25 yards and KZ of about 24-25mm).  Today things clicked... after bouncing back and forth between the rat and paper target (making small scope adjustments along the way), I finished up with hitting the KZ 8 out of 10 times 

What really seemed to make a difference was focusing on supporting the rifle with my skeleton AND really limiting how my trigger hand interacted with the rifle.  I ended up almost with only my trigger hand's fingertips making contact with the gun.  My non-trigger hand was palm up under the balance point of the gun and my cheek firmly planted on the leather cheek rest.  I really hope I can replicate this again in the future

Today's pics:

A picture-perfect fall day!



Rat at the end of shooting.



Rat and paper target

[HectorMedina]

NICE!

You now need to buy grass courts marking paint.

And re-paint your target every day.

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

[north country gal]

Nicely, done. Those FTT targets are fun. We have a crow, boar and a rat.

[uglymike]

I've been following this, some golden nuggets of knowledge here. 8/10 on the rat is something to be proud of. Where you still shooting the Superdomes or back to the 8.4 JSBs? Doing it with the iconic D34 . 

[mcoulter]

Thanks everyone 🙂

Hector, why is court paint better than your average can of spray paint?

Sorry Mike I neglected to mention that these were shot with Air Arms 8.4 which are the 34's favorite pellets👍

[HectorMedina]

Thanks everyone 🙂

Hector, why is court paint better than your average can of spray paint?

Sorry Mike I neglected to mention that these were shot with Air Arms 8.4 which are the 34's favorite pellets👍

Grass Marking paint is flexible and the pellet dimple becomes just a dimple.
If you use any enamel type paint the pellet dimple creates a "shatter crater" and while the impact is more visible from afar for the first few shots, it becomes a mess after and you need to repaint the target more often.

IDEALLY, you should strip the OEM paint, then use white grass marking paint as a base and then use one of the standard WFTF colors and approved combinations(Yellow, Light Blue, White and Black):

"Target colours
In the World Field Target Championship the allowed target colours are:

Yellow faceplates with black hit-zones, or
Black faceplates with yellow hit-zones, or
White faceplates with black hit-zones, or
Black faceplates with white hit-zones, or
Light blue faceplates with white hit-zones"

If you want to get creative/artistic, you can always add some fur / streaks with a brush after that with normal paint. But as a training device, it's better to get used to non-detailed looking targets (it's actually a bit more difficult to rangefind when there is no detailed painting).

Good luck and keep us posted!







HM

[Deerstalker]

Great targets for the air gun shooter.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/250-Pcs-Stickers-Shooting-Targets-Diameter-7-5Cm-Reactive-Splatter-Target-Stick/402364650139?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[HectorMedina]

Sorry, Dave.
I am SURE those targets are great, but NOTHING beats hearing the steel "clank" and the feeling you get when you see the rat falling back "flat out".

LOL!


HM

[north country gal]

Good point on the splatter targets, Dave, We keep a good supply on hand when we want to shoot paper. I do like the way the black bull lights up, so to speak, when hit.

Still, shooting metal is at least 90% of our shooting in our 30 yard backyard AG range. To borrow a phrase from my bicycling world, "steel is real."

[Yogi]

Good point on the splatter targets, Dave, We keep a good supply on hand when we want to shoot paper. I do like the way the black bull lights up, so to speak, when hit.

Still, shooting metal is at least 90% of our shooting in our 30 yard backyard AG range. To borrow a phrase from my bicycling world, "steel is real."

Steel maybe real, but all decent bicycles are either carbon, titanium or aluminium.

Remember, in FT competitions only one or 2 lanes are a different shooting position.  Usually, either off hand or kneeling.

-Y

[HectorMedina]

Good point on the splatter targets, Dave, We keep a good supply on hand when we want to shoot paper. I do like the way the black bull lights up, so to speak, when hit.

Still, shooting metal is at least 90% of our shooting in our 30 yard backyard AG range. To borrow a phrase from my bicycling world, "steel is real."

Steel maybe real, but all decent bicycles are either carbon, titanium or aluminium.

Remember, in FT competitions only one or 2 lanes are a different shooting position.  Usually, either off hand or kneeling.

-Y

Yogi;

That would depend on the Club/rules they are using.
Under current WFTF rules, for every 50 shots, there should be no more than 10 shots that are designated positions. USUALLY, MD's will split these 10 shots into 6 kneeling and 4 standing, or viceversa.
Over a 3  day Match of 150 shots, there would be 30 shots to be taken in designated positions.
Kneeling shots CAN be taken offhand, and sometimes, the target placement is so close to the gronud/obstacles that some "free position" shots need to be taken kneeling.

Besides, when you are getting to the top 1/3 of the competition, places are usually decided by the positional shots. Most everyone else will get pretty much the same score on the "free position" shots.

FT is a great all-around challenge. That's what makes it so much fun!

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[mcoulter]

I trust it's ok to divert a bit of the conversation into Field Target...  If not, I can probably post some of these questions in the FT gate. 

First, I measured the kill zone holes and here's what I found them to be:

Small = 15mm / .57 in
Medium = 25mm / .95 in
Large = 40mm / 1.5 in

So now I am trying to confirm what distances I should set this target at when using these different size restrictors.  I was on AGN the other day and was pointed to the AAFTA manual for this info:



And I read *somewhere*  (sorry, I can't find the source...) that a decent starting point for practicing is in the 20s on the Troyer scale.  So applying this to the sizes I have on this target, this puts the rat target at these distances with the different size restrictors:

https://www.aafta.org/uploads/1/2/7/6/127666620/rifle_troyer.pdf

Small @ 13-18 yards
Medium @ 20-29 yards
Large @ 30-44 yards


Getting back to the rule book, can I assume free position is exactly what it sounds like?  Is the most common free position shooting from a seated position?  Also what does the "+ Ext Up/Down" reference mean?

And bringing this back to the German in this gate  ;-)  I assume that if my 34 is still sub-12 fpe, it would fit nicely in the WFTF Division.

[dwalk]

US Army:

B.  Breathe
R.   Relax
A.   Aim
S.   Take up slack
S.   Squeeze

I have incorporated into my form  exhaling half a breath after taking up slack.

It works for me..

[Struckat]

I too needed to get up and shoot off hand. I practiced this weekend, 200 shots or so at the 10m targets.

This is tonight’s effort, much improved over yesterday. I was doing well but then just had to throw those two low.

HW30 scope on 4x. Interestingly I shoot much better on 4x vs 2 or 3x.

[HectorMedina]

I trust it's ok to divert a bit of the conversation into Field Target...  If not, I can probably post some of these questions in the FT gate. 

First, I measured the kill zone holes and here's what I found them to be:

Small = 15mm / .57 in
Medium = 25mm / .95 in
Large = 40mm / 1.5 in

So now I am trying to confirm what distances I should set this target at when using these different size restrictors.  I was on AGN the other day and was pointed to the AAFTA manual for this info:



And I read *somewhere*  (sorry, I can't find the source...) that a decent starting point for practicing is in the 20s on the Troyer scale.  So applying this to the sizes I have on this target, this puts the rat target at these distances with the different size restrictors:

https://www.aafta.org/uploads/1/2/7/6/127666620/rifle_troyer.pdf

Small @ 13-18 yards
Medium @ 20-29 yards
Large @ 30-44 yards


Getting back to the rule book, can I assume free position is exactly what it sounds like?  Is the most common free position shooting from a seated position?  Also what does the "+ Ext Up/Down" reference mean?

And bringing this back to the German in this gate  ;-)  I assume that if my 34 is still sub-12 fpe, it would fit nicely in the WFTF Division.

Hello Matt!
Since this applies to any practice regime, I would say there is no grounds to move the post, but that is just my impression.

Your target complies with the three sizes that are allowed under WFTF rules. 3 Sizes simplify the lives of MD's and also make it easy for manufacturers to lower their costs. At present, you can buy a British made target cheaper than a medium end American one. Of course, American made targets need to live up to 0 ft-lbs, while the WFTF ones can get away with being rated for 12 ft-lbs.

Under WFTF rules, the max distances are also simplified:


Targets (Max distance)   15mm   25mm   40mm
Non-positional targets   20 metres   35 metres   50 metres
Positional targets   Not allowed   20 metres   40 metres

So, you can see that the whole thing pretty matches up regardless of what rulebook you are using.
The most common "free position" is seating because it gives you a better view with the added height, compared to Prone. As I said, depending on your anatomy, you MAY be forced to shoot a "free position" target from the kneeling position because the targets are set for the three divisions, and Hunter Division enjoys even more height due to the use of stools/buckets/sticks.

"Ex Up-Dn" or other wording to that effect means targets placed on trees or in ravines. The angle adds a complication because the shape of the hole is no longer round.

Yes, your 34, if shooting at under 12 ft-lbs can shoot in the "WFTF Piston" Division/Class, if there are not enough shooters in that division/class, the MD can assimilate different classes.
SMART MD's assimilate all the piston shooters together, but some MD's are devious enough to assimilate WFTF classes together (PCP's and Pistons), so it really depends if the MD has any particular class to favour by keeping the WFTF Piston guys out.

;-)

Keep well and keep us posted!





HM

[mcoulter]

Thank you very much for that information Hector.  It's really quite fun trying to wrap my mind around the "ins-and-outs" of this discipline!     

I feel very fortunate these recent weeks being able to get outside during my lunch break and shoot the 34 (and P1) as regularly as I have.  This practice in combination with taking some time here to log thoughts about what worked (or perhaps what didn't) feels like it's helping reinforce some shooting basics I never really worked on before.

Today's observations...
 
- I realized that I've left my scope set at 9x (it's a 3-12 scope). After a little more practice I will bump it up to 12x and see how that affects my accuracy and ability to hold steady

- One quality I have always enjoyed about this 34 is that I can just pick it up and get some reasonably accurate shots from it.

- I figured that I would not be able to quite repeat my previous 8 out of 10 hits at this 25 yard distance.  Today I twice got 6 out of 10 hits.  This feels like it'll be more of the "norm" for me. 

- I've not done anything with the target yet so the kill zone paddle is getting pretty hard to see so I do need to get some proper field marking paint (can I use the KZ being hard to see for my excuse for not shooting as well?!?!)

- The trigger on the 34 is pretty darn good (thanks Al for sending it back better than was it was originally!), but I can now definitely see how a shorter second stage would help with accuracy when shooting off hand.  In my last paper target I started playing a bit with adding what I'll call preload to the trigger (just putting a teeny amount of *extra* pressure on the 2nd stage) to effectively shorten the pull as I am steadying myself on target.  Time will tell if this is good or bad.  I may just be better off with Hector's "TRUST YOUR TRIGGER FINGER MORE THAN YOUR BRAIN" suggestion.

- I'm still trying to minimize what my trigger HAND is doing.  I'm keeping as light of a trigger hand on the rifle as possible.  I'm also trying to pull backwards as directly as possible, watch for the pellet in flight as the sear releases and see it through to where it hits the target.  Like what I felt when shooting the P1, every one-in-while my brain zeros in on where it think the pellet will hit.  It's kind of a fun, slow motion feeling that does not happen often, but it makes me feel more "in the zone" when it does happen!


The rat target is pretty beat up so there wasn't much to learn from taking pics of it...  But here's the paper target I also shot.  I warmed up with the two left groups, then shot the rat (6/10), shot 5 on paper, another ratting session (6/10) and then finished with playing with that trigger preload thing on the right target: