Getting my lazy butt off the bench...

[mcoulter]

Confessional time. 

I hardly ever shoot offhand or from anything OTHER than a bag or attached bipod with my PCPs.  And when I do shoot offhand, it feels impossibly difficult.  But I'd really like to get better at it!   

So I gotta start somewhere and sometime.  I'm planning to post here each time I shoot as some motivation to spend at least half of my shooting away from the bag or attached bipod.

Here is today's shooting...  Yesterday I had been testing a 25 yard zero with the 34 and JSB 8.4s so that seemed like as good of a place as any to begin. 





And here are my results at 25 yards.  The left group was shot with the monopod.  Center and right groups were from a seated position with one elbow supported on my leg. 





These were all shot with the scope at 12x which (even with the monopod) was super wobbly and shaky feeling.  At this distance I think 12x is working against me. 

Next opportunity I'll be dialing the scope's magnification back and see how things work that way.  I had great results with a 3x32 scope that I tested for Hector's blog (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/how-can-less-be-more). 

After shooting these I got it in my mind that I wanted to see how bad 60 yards would be using the monopod.  Here 12x certainly was needed and a 3 mildot holdover was almost enough. 

So I was wishing that I had done better at 25 but surprised at doing this well at 60... hmm.  Till next time...




 

[Chris USA]

Good for you for giving it a go! I took a 25 yard (off hand) shot at a squirrel at 25 yards today and pulled the shot. Braced against the the house (or tree) is a guaranteed head shot at 25-30 yards. Keep at it! You have my respect for trying it. I can relate to wobbly and shaky when doing off hand. Yes, turn the magnification down at closer range. I think you did very well!

[Mark 611]

Matt, that's not terrible shooting at all is ur rifle tuned?

[mcoulter]

Thanks guys.  Mark, I put a Vortek PG2 kit in this gun about 6 (or so) years ago.  It's shooting pretty soft now at about 11.5 fpe.

[Mark 611]

Have u adjusted the trigger?

[mcoulter]

In a roundabout way, yes, the trigger has been adjusted ;-)  I bought the gun new in 2012 and sold it fall of 2019 and never touched the trigger.  The person who bought the gun from me DID make some small adjustments and I'm VERY happy to say came back to me with a nicer trigger.  (Thanks Al!)

Speaking of the trigger, it's very interested how I'm changing my trigger pull.  I feel like I'm almost snapping the trigger back as I'm shooting from the monopod or off my knee.  The luxury of a so-slow-you-don't-know-when-it's-gonna-realease pull does not feel right as I'm watching my POA drift around.  I guess that's kind of normal? 

[Struckat]

I try to be still, but I end up with a quicker press off hand like you describe. I try to anticipate my wobble so I snap as the cross hairs are on target.

4x or so is your friend.

[north country gal]

Matt, that's terrific on expanding your shooting horizons and welcome to the club from a gal who actually prefers shooting without a rest, now that I've been shooting offhand for so long. Have to say, you are off to a very good start. Nice shooting. Work your way up with the magnification and, as mentioned, start low and get comfortable with the whole concept. Shooting with a scope and no rest is definitely a work in progress.

I now use 9x and above on a regular basis, but it didn't happen, overnight. I prefer enough magnification to be able to keep the crosshairs oscillating within the size of the bull I'm using (obviously, I use more magnification as the distance increases when using the same size bull), rather than wandering outside the bull as happens when using lower magnifications.

The real key to offhand shooting is not some superhuman steadiness. That's a myth. You will always be working with a moving sight pattern, even when using iron sights, but you can learn to manage that movement. The key is learning to time your trigger technique to coincide with the crosshairs as the it moves into the center of the bullseye. A top notch trigger as on a Diana or HW or AA springer is a huge plus for this work. The old saw about not knowing when your trigger goes off, having it be a surprise when the gun goes off to be shooting, properly, does not apply here. You must know that trigger, intimately, and be in full control as to when it breaks. The trick is to work that trigger smoothly and calmly, but still do it with the right timing. Can't rush it, nor can you wait forever. When you feel your concentration ebbing, pull up, take a deep breath and try again.

A brief, almost zen like moment of relaxation and calm as the crosshair moves into the ten ring really and then following though to keep it there even as the gun recoils and the pellet leaves the barrel really helps. In fact, that follow through is an absolute must. When my follow through is not what it should be, I find myself dropping my shots low. Sure sign. The trick is to work that trigger smoothly and calmly, but still do it with the right timing.

Oh, yeah, whoever said that shooting is 90% mental must have been an offhand shooter, because I'd rate that 90% as a minimum.

One of my favorite ways to shoot without a rest is sitting on a bench, but otherwise supporting the gun only with my hands. It does lessen the fatigue factor, compared to standing and, make no mistake, the concentration needed to shoot without a rest with a scope is fatiguing. When you're feeling tired, take a break or come back, later, after a rest. Keeping shooting sessions short until you build up stamina is a good idea.

For me, weight of the gun, given my age and gender, is a big factor for this type of shooting. Some weight and forward balance is helpful for this type of shooting, but too much is a handicap for steadiness and the fatigue factor. I don't last very long when shooting scoped under levers with their weight, so my favorites are break barrels.

Lastly, I find the regular practice is needed to stay in top form. If I haven't been shooting for awhile, it takes time to regain that finesse needed to do my best the shooting without a rest. When shooting powder guns without a rest, dry fire practice without a rest really helps, but, of course, dry firing with a springer is a no no.

Sorry for the long post, but, hey, books have been written on this kind of shooting. Again, welcome to the club. Enjoy.

[Yogi]

What North Country Gal says is right on!
The only thing that I can add is start above your target and slowly come straight down.  When on target release the trigger.  If you start to wobble, start over and reset yourself.
Also, if standing, you need to find just the right spot to place you guide hand.  Some people like to keep that elbow tucked tightly to their hip bone for stability.
Practice, practice, practice....

-Y

[JohnnyPDX]

My only contribution is Thank You because I am a bench shooting fool trying everything possible to remove myself as a variable.

It pains me to think of how bad I am at offhand but you motivated me to try.

[toddbrat]

The bench proves the gun but standing proves the shooter...

Glad I'm not the only one going thru this. I've spent the last couple of years dragging my bench out whenever the urge to shoot came on (which is about daily in all honesty). Since I've got my R7, I find myself using the bench mainly for zeroing and longer distance shooting at my 50 yard target.

As has been said, magnification plays a very big role in amplifying the natural movement you'll see. I use the same targets at 25 yards as I do at 50 so I will halve my magnification at 25, this give me the same sight picture at 50. Now if I'm shooting the scoped R7 at 25, it wears a 2-7x Hawke Airmax, I use 2-4x. That gives me enough magnification to see the target clearly without too much wobble. I place the crosshair above the target, as I exhale the gun will drop. Once I get to the natural pause between breaths, the crosshairs should be very close to where I plan to squeeze the trigger, usually coming down right on top of the bull. The rest is up to me, as was mentioned knowing the trigger is a must for this as well as a good follow through. I alternate between standing and sitting on the steps at the end of the deck propping my elbow on my knee. I've also been trying different field target positions, I've never shot a match--I haven't found any within 100 miles of me--but would love to, seeing some of the groups people have shot from field target positions, either supported or unsupported, really makes me want to up my backyard game.

[lizzie]

Not bad at all for 25 yards! I have trouble even at ten! Now....this may guilt me into getting off my butt at the bench! Haha

Keep it up!

[mcoulter]

Wow, there's so much good info in this thread already... Thanks everyone!  I have to say that my brother-in-law has been a huge motivator for me in this regard.  He's really into muzzle loading - to the point where he's building his own guns and is making his own projectiles.  I'm hoping to be half a good of a shot with my airguns as he is with his muzzle loaders!

I love the idea of starting my hold above the target.  I had been doing the exact opposite.  If times allows today I'll give this a try at lower magnification   

[lizzie]

Wow, there's so much good info in this thread already... Thanks everyone! ......

I love the idea of starting my hold above the target.  I had been doing the exact opposite.  If times allows today I'll give this a try at lower magnification   

A few years ago, I was doing a fair amount of offhand shooting, and I bought a couple of red-dot sights for two target rifles. To me, that's the perfect solution for the "mag" problem.

[Yogi]

The bench proves the gun but standing proves the shooter...

Glad I'm not the only one going thru this. I've spent the last couple of years dragging my bench out whenever the urge to shoot came on (which is about daily in all honesty). Since I've got my R7, I find myself using the bench mainly for zeroing and longer distance shooting at my 50 yard target.

As has been said, magnification plays a very big role in amplifying the natural movement you'll see. I use the same targets at 25 yards as I do at 50 so I will halve my magnification at 25, this give me the same sight picture at 50. Now if I'm shooting the scoped R7 at 25, it wears a 2-7x Hawke Airmax, I use 2-4x. That gives me enough magnification to see the target clearly without too much wobble. I place the crosshair above the target, as I exhale the gun will drop. Once I get to the natural pause between breaths, the crosshairs should be very close to where I plan to squeeze the trigger, usually coming down right on top of the bull. The rest is up to me, as was mentioned knowing the trigger is a must for this as well as a good follow through. I alternate between standing and sitting on the steps at the end of the deck propping my elbow on my knee. I've also been trying different field target positions, I've never shot a match--I haven't found any within 100 miles of me--but would love to, seeing some of the groups people have shot from field target positions, either supported or unsupported, really makes me want to up my backyard game.

Well said, +1
My only comment is you do not have to wait until the natural pause between breaths.  When you get on target, stop exhaling and hold you breath for a second.  If I don't do this, My brain goes into oxigen starvation is I wait till I have exhalled all of my breath...

-Y

[HectorMedina]

Matt;

It's good that you are trying offhand. FT Matches are won/lost in the forced positions. MOST all other shots will be evenly caught by most shooters. So, mastering the offhand and kneeling positions is important.

Now, to the Monopod: If you can sit on the ground, get a bumbag. The hard boating cushion do NOT provide the levelling/stability that is needed. If your butt is not flat (mine isn't!), you need something to put an even pressure and make that part of your anatomy a STABLE platform. Now, that you are on the ground, your knee will be about right where the gun needs to be. Brace the monopod to the knee so as to create a Tri-pod between your legs and the monopod. It CAN be quite stable. If you cannot manage stability, get a bi-pod and try again.

Do remember that spring guns are called "bouncers" for a reason. Changing the angle of the pod-bipod to the gun WILL change your POI. So try to be consistent there. You can also use the bipod to hold your hand and then your hand to hold the gun, it's all about adapting the position to YOUR anatomy.

On the offhand: YOU AIM WITH YOUR FEET. If you are not in your Natural Shooting Position, you will not hit the bullseye. FIND what is your NSP: Get into position, close your eyes, bring the gun up, open your eyes and see where the gun is aiming at. If the gun is not aiming at the bullseye, correct your feet position. ALWAYS MOVE YOUR REAR FOOT to do this. Once you have found where your NSP is, memorize it. And repeat the whole exercise a 1,000 times. You should be able to get to your NSP on the first try.
IF you wobble vertically, your non-trigger elbow is on the wrong spot. If you wobble horizontally, your trigger elbow is too low.
Use ONLY BONES to support the rifle's weight. Muscles should be as relaxed as possible.

On the scope: Work up in the magnification. Challenge yourself little by little. In the end you should be comfortable shooting at the highest magnification your Division/Class allows, or is practical for the scope you are using. EG: Hunters shoot at 16X, Open/WFTF will shoot at 25X to 40X. Personally, I cannot shoot at higher than 29X. NOr do I feel the need to. At present I am shooting at 29X because my scope is SFP and I do NOT want to mess with the mag ring. Once I get the FFP version, I will gladly shoot the offhand games at around 18X.
CONCENTRATE on the reticle, not the target. Define in your mind a POINT to aim at, DO NOT AIM AT THE WHOLE TARGET, CHOOSE A POINT. And then concentrate your eyes on the reticle's point you need. TRUST YOUR TRIGGER FINGER MORE THAN YOUR BRAIN. Squeeze slowly and gently and trust your finger to learn where it needs to go.

It is ALWAYS a WIP (Work in Progress), don't get discouraged, keep on trying. You have taken the first step in the Confucian 10,000 miles journey, enjoy the journey. If necessary change the game: from bullseye, to silhouette, to FT, to spinners. Just have fun!

;-)





HM

[Robert 5mm]

I like to use the rifle sling wrapped around my forward arm to steady my aim.
The length of the sling can be adjusted to allow the artillery hold or the conventional hold.

[mcoulter]

Just a quick post here with some lunchtime shooting...  Started badly ended better.  My wife and I joined an indoor climbing gym this year and we did some climbing / bouldering this morning.  I didn't know what to expect regarding how tired my shoulders and arms are and fatigue while shooting.  When I saw how badly my 1st shots were even using a monopod, I was about to write the day off and go back inside.  I'm glad that I didn't!

Target 1: scope on 3x then 4x then 6x for the right two:




Target 2: scope 6x for all, switched from JSB 8.4s to Superdomes, on the right target I switched from a tight hold with both elbows rested to a much looser hold with only the gun supporting elbow rested on my knee.  My supporting hand was at the balance point right under the front of the scope:




Target 3: scope at 6x still, trying to fine-tune the hold I did on the right target above...  felt much easier to keep steady than any tight hold.  All groups are 5-shots  :-)



Hector, thanks for your post above.  I will circle back on this later, but I found myself sitting cross-legged (can I call it Indian style still?)  with one foot under my leg which my elbow is resting on.   So I will have to think about aiming with my feet in this position.  And Yes, I found my trigger finger doing it's own thing.  Maybe that's not a bad thing?

EDIT... just adding a pretty pic  :-)

[JohnnyPDX]

Not bad at all for 25 yards! I have trouble even at ten! Now....this may guilt me into getting off my butt at the bench! Haha

Keep it up!

Me too. If the puppy is good, it's on the paper.

[dan_house]

"TRUST YOUR TRIGGER FINGER MORE THAN YOUR BRAIN"

some of the best shooting advice I ever got, and got it from Hector shooting the Silhouette 10m postal match he was the "match director" for.  One thing I'll add about NSP, is that if you dont achieve that with the first effort, lower the gun, adjust then try it again. I went so far as to put some duct tape on the garage floor where my feet should be. Helped shorten the learning curve for NSP/NPOA, but you still need to do your part.