TJ spec and price guide?

[oldpro]

 Cant find price or spec sheet for TJ liners, does anyone have it or a link?

[mackeral5]

Prices may be off a bit, just email what you want and they will quote or just send you a Quickbooks invoice...

[UnderPressure]

The .22 air barrel they have listed is very tight at .214 groove diameter and .208 lands (bore) diameter.

Isn't there also a .22 air barrel with .217 groove diameter and .213 lands (bore) diameter?

[oldpro]

 Thank You Mike!!!

[rsterne]

Yes, that "standard" .22 bore TJ's barrel is quite a fast twist, however, at 16"....

Bob

[oldpro]

 Going to build a .177 slug gun!

[mackeral5]

Thank You Mike!!!

You're welcome Travis.  I normally keep my communication with Todd very short and to the point.  I simply ask for a price shipped for xx inches of xx barrel.  He sends a Quickbooks invoice and I arrange payment.  This seems to work very well for him and I've received several barrels in the same week by keeping things simple.
 Payment is via bank draft so that is a hit awkward at first....


Bob, I've had such good luck with TJ's barrels in 257 1:14, .300 1:26, .and  357 1:26  that I really wanted to try one for my 22 pellet shooter(s). But based on all of my reading it just doesnt appear they offer a good solution for a .22 pellet shooter.    For now I'm going to test by using s Crosman Fortitude barre and see how they works.  I would much rather have one of TJ's hammer forged barrels if only due to stiffness/toughness. 

[rsterne]

Current pellet barrels are approaching twist rates of 100 calibers (the 22" in .25 cal and 26" in .30 cal are 87-88 calibers), so I agree TJ's does not currently have what I would expect to be a great pellet shooter.... I wish they had something in the 20-22" twist range.... I know that some of the benchrest shooters are experimenting with even slower twist rates to reduce spiralling at 100 yards....

Bob

[Motorhead]

Current pellet barrels are approaching twist rates of 100 calibers (the 22" in .25 cal and 26" in .30 cal are 87-88 calibers), so I agree TJ's does not currently have what I would expect to be a great pellet shooter.... I wish they had something in the 20-22" twist range.... I know that some of the benchrest shooters are experimenting with even slower twist rates to reduce spiralling at 100 yards....

Bob

 On that note .... When I was at the NEVADA State FT championship a few months back, we had a gentleman from up in Oregon who is a Bench Rest shooter and was using one of his CUSTOM  .177 barrels on his .177 FT rig. 
During practice we were shooting along side one another at 50 yards seeing how well his .177 shot against my .20 .... Got my azz handed to me watching him stack pellet after pellet into an easy 1/2" or less.

This lead to me working him for info on what the barrel was ?    Came to find out a LW special production 1-36" twist !! Shooting JSB 10.3's @ 910 fps IIRC

Was shocked and in seeing it first hand with my own eyes made me a believer that barrels we use are old school and outdated twist rates for power above 12 FPE which is where air guns had been for many decades !! ( Actually most > 12fpe )

PS.  he won the match and set high score too.

[mackeral5]

for now I guess the FX liners are the better readily available solution.....

If I look at it from a business perspective, I assume .177 and .22 pellet shooters make up such a small portion of Todd and Mike's business that it hasn't been worth further investment. 

Scott---cool story thank you for sharing.

[KnifeMaker]

I've been say'n. Ain't I been Say'n? Hello!!!  Of course I was told by the guru that it wasn't so. Well, Its so!!!  Now I'm testing the latest slug Heavy FX Superior and it is a very fast 1-16 twist. GRRRRR~!!!. My 1-20 Redman's liner will out shoot it all day,  every day. a little disappointed but knew it was going to be an issue as soon as I slugged it at .213 choke with a 1-16 twist. I mean, I didn't division shooting a .213 slug. That is NOT a .22 or anywhere near it. Not by a long shot!!!


Add the fact that the Redmans is a .223 and gives much more surface to push  against, it is giving much higher fpe with the near same air use and exactly same pressure. Not impressed with the .213/ or .218 with the choke removed so far.

FX before shipping, 109 bucks Redman, before shipping, 35 bucks, and almost the exact od so will work in the FX system just fine.
Knife

[UnderPressure]

Yes, that "standard" .22 bore TJ's barrel is quite a fast twist, however, at 16"....

Bob

.217 groove diameter with 1 in 16" twist would be good for higher power slug or boat tail slug set-ups. (I am assuming the .217 groove with .213 lands 1 in 16" twist TJ's barrel (not shown on the price list) is what JSAR uses for the Raptor .22 slug barrel)

But yeah for JSB 18.13 (which has .217 head diameter*) something slower would be interesting.

Ideally the slower the twist the better assuming there isn't any issue with gases upsetting the pellet at muzzle.

With that noted, I wonder how TJ's .177 1 in 22" twist would do with pellets? At 12 FPE (for field target) ? At 20 FPE (for field target)? ( 1 in 22" for .177 is proportional to 1 in 27" for .217)

* Unlike JSB Monster redesigned which has .219 head diameter. (The larger head diameter of the JSB Monster Redesigned is why FX made STX pellet liner B. STX pellet liner A is for JSB pellets with smaller head diameter like the 18.13 grain.)

[KnifeMaker]

NO Sir, it isn't. I Have tested the 1-16 anywhere from 800 fps all the way to 1180 fps and the 1-20 wins every time. EVERY TIME. Seems you are ignoring everything posted and tested by others.


I'm sorry, but theory is theory. Actual testing is the ONLY way to confirm data.  Where is the palm slap to the forehead when you need it?


Get your nose  out of the calculators and do some shooting for yourself. 


Knife

[UnderPressure]

NO Sir, it isn't. I Have tested the 1-16 anywhere from 800 fps all the way to 1180 fps and the 1-20 wins every time. EVERY TIME.


I'm sorry, but theory is theory. Actual testing is the ONLY way to confirm data.  Where is the palm slap to the forehead when you need it?


Get your nose  out of the calculators and do some shooting for yourself. 


Knife

What range are you shooting at?

The reason I ask is because a bullet can be accurate at short range with a slow twist but then groups will open up as range increases.

[FuzzyGrub]

I'm sorry, but theory is theory. Actual testing is the ONLY way to confirm data. 

+1

[UnderPressure]

Knifemaker,

This is the bullet (NOE .22LR mold) you used to compare Redman's 1 in 20" twist .223 to FX Superior Heavy 1 in 16" twist .218 (choke removed) right?



(obviously sized down to .218 when used in the FX barrel)

P.S. One thing to consider is that when sizing down to .218 the parallel bearing surface will increase compared to when it is at the full .223 diameter.

[KnifeMaker]

Test to 200 yards. I have suggested to FX to make a loiner at .233 for the many casters. More base surface area for higher fpe. we'll see. 

the point that you are missing is that most molds available are .224 and .225. The fx liner is for pellet Dia's yet is marketed as a heavy slug liner. HUH?

So yes, they have to be sized down. This is the point of the matter.

it would be very helpful if you would read the thread before commenting on what has been fully covered as if has not been pointed out. 

Knife

[KnifeMaker]

Test to 200 yards. I have suggested to FX to make a loiner at .233 for the many casters. More base surface area for higher fpe. we'll see. 

the point that you are missing is that most molds available are .224 and .225. The fx liner is for pellet Dia's yet is marketed as a heavy slug liner. HUH?

So yes, they have to be sized down. This is the point of the matter.

it would be very helpful if you would read the thread before commenting on what has been fully covered as if has not been pointed out. 

Knife

  Oop's, my bad, it was all covered in the FX SuperiourSlug Liner thread.

[UnderPressure]

Test to 200 yards. I have suggested to FX to make a loiner at .233 for the many casters. More base surface area for higher fpe. we'll see. 

the point that you are missing is that most molds available are .224 and .225. The fx liner is for pellet Dia's yet is marketed as a heavy slug liner. HUH?

So yes, they have to be sized down. This is the point of the matter.

it would be very helpful if you would read the thread before commenting on what has been fully covered as if has not been pointed out. 

Knife

  Oop's, my bad, it was all covered in the FX SuperiourSlug Liner thread.

I never saw 200 yards mentioned in the FX Superior Slug liner thread:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176121.msg156003572#msg156003572

I have already stated that in testing, both myself and others that the 1-16 does NOT perform batter. Exactly the opposite results have been found.  Have you read any of this thread?

Looking through this thread I only see short range testing. (and the choke wasn't even removed until reply #37)

It is common knowledge that using a slow twist rate can work (and even be more accurate) for short range......but groups can open up as range increases.

I don't think there are a lot of people shooting a 38 grain .22LR bullet that would want to be strictly limited to short range.....so checking at long range makes sense.

Highest range mentioned in the FX Superior Slug liner thread was 80 yards.

If you are getting good groups at 200 yards with a 38 grain .22LR bullet (NOE CC1) using 1 in 20" twist .223 rimfire liner then I just have to attribute that to you having a super good barrel (reason: even for 50 yard bench rest .22LR shooters are only using 1 in 16.5" or 1 in 17" twist).

P.S. There was a .22 LR benchrest rifle called Suhl 150 that came in either 1 in 16.5" twist or 1 in 19" twist....the 1 in 19" twist  was reported to be bad at long range and finicky with temperature for short range. I think if 1 in 19" twist worked well (on average) for .22LR bullets we would see it being used today...but it isn't.

NOTE: If shooting slower than .22LR match rimfire speeds Kolbe twist says rifling rate can be relaxed, but the twist reduction is 2.5" at most (for all practical purposes). For 950 FPS maybe 2" less twist.

[UnderPressure]

Neither of these threads mention long range testing with NOE 38 grain and Redman's 1 in 20" twist .223 liner either:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=165121.msg155843752#msg155843752

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.0

First thread mentions 60 yard testing here---> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=165121.msg155843752#msg155843752

And the second thread mentions 80 yard testing here---> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.msg155912403#msg155912403 (Accuracy is 1" at 80 yards with the worst slug and 1/2" with the best two slugs)

Still looking though.....

(Am very interested to see the 200 yard testing)