New system for measuring the noise level of and air rifle/pistol

[oldpro]

 The standard why of measuring the report of and air rifle is using a meter and capturing the Db level, this system is very flawed and really tells the customer very little. Db meters you can buy really have a wide range and back groud noise and  where the meter is located can have wide effects in readings, also most people have no idea what 1 dB is and how it effects what you can hear. I want to start a industry standard using a scale based on known noise levels and then scale that 1 to 10 what do you all think? Like for example 1 being a whisper 3 a hand clap 7 a door slam 10 a shot gun...something like that

[5thumbs]

This is a great idea and would be very helpful for us shooters that need to be stealthy (for me it is being respectful to my neighbors).   How can the sound levels or comparisons be quantitated?

[K_sqrd]

Here are a few examples to start with...
http://www.straightshooters.com/decibel-ranking-of-airguns.html
Check out the chart they have listed.

[Motorhead]

There is MUZZLE noise ... then there is MECHANICAL noise.  Any established methodology will need to take this into account being not all folks shoot the same type propulsion of air gun.

[oldpro]

Here are a few examples to start with...
http://www.straightshooters.com/decibel-ranking-of-airguns.html
Check out the chart they have listed.

Good information

[oldpro]

There is MUZZLE noise ... then there is MECHANICAL noise.  Any established methodology will need to take this into account being not all folks shoot the same type propulsion of air gun.

I agree 100%

[dan_house]

couple of things...

noise and sound levels are always subjecitve

my form one can in .22 LR is 2 -3 dB louder than most of my .22 LDCS but its tone makes it SEEM quieter on the same airgun.   


There should be a universally accepted setup for where the meter is in relation to the muzzle. IMO there shouid also be a an accepted report structure so its an apples to apples comparision. Or at least you’re aware of how it was testes versus how you tested.  ie, was it inside, in the garage or the living room. AT my shop there;s a field on one end of the building, and a building straight across. Testing in the field gives different numbers than in between the buildings

[Airnut]

Way to many variables to accurately quantify in my opinion.(I could be wrong)
Will be interesting to see what you come up with! Good luck.
Want to try a experiment?
Have 25 people download DB meter on their cell phone and record the DB reading of a single hand clap. Then pm you with the number. I think that will give you an idea of what you are up against.

[dan_house]

discussion is good.

out of it will come more good ideas

[KevinJBrown]

I wonder if there are any sound engineers or product engineers on the forum. I'm thinking they would have some really good input.

Things I think would be important would be to isolate the sound to be only the sound from the product (airgun) being tested. This means the testing would have to be done in a room with acoustic tiles on all surfaces. Standards would have to be written for the testing. You'd have to decide what you are going to measure. I think you could measure how loud the sound was (dB), pitch (frequencies measured) how long it lasted (s), and how much sound there was (area under the curve, but I'm not sure what units would be appropriate).
The quality of the sound is probably just as important when it comes to irritating the neighbors but I don't think that can be quantified so I think any information regarding it would be just about useless. Same thing goes for the environment in which the sound is heard.

[Fate]

Good idea... grand idea. But it won't happen.

Best we can do is provide analogies... something is like this or that. But no static "measurement" of reality is possible.

[JohnnyPDX]

I like the idea and it should be done but I DO NOT expect manufacturers of air rifles to use the scale and standard in any meaningful or honest way.

Just like they measure FPS and FPE....
heavy pellet for high FPE
light pellet for high FPS

They will always be manipulating data. Some exceptions I'm sure.

[Tonykarter]

Working back from why we want to know this information, isn't the reason so we can compare our air guns and determine which is most silent or loudest?  For my purposes I am good with a phone app and using it to compare my guns, trying to maintain the same environmental conditions while testing each gun.  All I want the app to do is give me a decibel number so I can scale one gun against the others.  I can "tare" the ambient noise out by observing the average noise level between shots and just subtracting from each gun's reading.  Good enough for the girls I go with.  Won't that get us all in the ballpark?  Provided that we are all using the same app?  But really...don't I already know my gun's sound hierarchy before I start?  Taipan: sly smile .  Blitz: The Feds are on the way 

[JohnnyPDX]

Working back from why we want to know this information, isn't the reason so we can compare our air guns and determine which is most silent or loudest?  For my purposes I am good with a phone app and using it to compare my guns, trying to maintain the same environmental conditions while testing each gun.  All I want the app to do is give me a decibel number so I can scale one gun against the others.  I can "tare" the ambient noise out by observing the average noise level between shots and just subtracting from each gun's reading.  Good enough for the girls I go with.  Won't that get us all in the ballpark?  Provided that we are all using the same app?

Yes to above. I've tried a couple apps and the measurements vary between them, so what. If I use the same app in similar conditions I can compare the Artemis to the Talon and the BSA. My ear knows who has the big mouth

[Frank in Fairfield]

When I am shooting the Marauder (.177) tuned by you know who, no one can hear it but me.
Why?
My ear is on the stock, the stock is attached to the action and, inside the action, things are moving (against each other).
How quiet is it?
Once when shooting at Ione, I missed two shots.
I took two more and my squad mates had no clue that I had..
We were shooting in 110 degree heat, that day..

[Back_Roads]

 For my purpose if the gun action by my ear makes less noise by my ear than a starling exploding 40 yards away the gun is as quiet as I need it.

[Earl]

What is a good decibel meter app for an iphone?
How many decibels is a P17 at 2, 10, 25 and 50 yds?

[fwbsport]

I was shooting my R7 .177 yesterday afternoon just to get a break from the heavy hitters.  The noise level was surprisingly so low I realized I was MISSING OUT by not USING the R7!  Open sights.

Going to HW95L .22 this morning the noise level on these is always "subdued" compared to HW80s, which are eye opening in noise level to me (they wake you up when you fire them like the D54).

An R7 doesn't need a muffler at all at any range around here in this neighborhood.

The bass on cars driving by is what you hear when they are approaching from blocks away.  This is an incident we all know is true--the song is muted out by the bass thumping a storm.

HW35Es have a shorter "burst" of sound more like a "boink" noise while the others going up in power have a longer lasting sound.

The decibel meter is confusing to me because you can have a rifle shooting ONE decibel higher and it can't be distinguished--or it is distinguished--without regard to what the meter says.

They say a .22 LR is loud enough to cause ear damage, but if you read the decibels on some of our rifles they shoot as loud as a .22LR according to the decibel meter.

Type of sound makes a difference and I hear "mechanical noise" in the HW80K .22 Long Range Hunter as pointed out earlier--also I hear mechanical noise in the HW98 which is not present in any R9 or HW95L.  In the case of the HW98 the stock and metal rods transfers the machine vibration noise directly into your ear that is near the stock. 

The D54 .20 has no mechanical noise, or if it does it is so low I can't hear it.  All I hear is the sound of the pellet leaving the muzzle and then slamming into the trap instantly.  No mechanical noise at all.  I think the sled system relieves the stock from transferring the noise from metal to wood to ear.  It all ends up being a loud puff of air is all.

The HW44 pistol in .22 is stunningly silent--more silent than the D54 or even an R7.  It just "clicks" and a .22 pellet is sent downrange at 730 fps!

The loudest rifle I have is the HW80 .20 followed by the HW80 .25 and HW80 .177.  I think that's because the HW80 .20 is shooting more on the "hot" side and always did the time I got it. 

Anyway, the other thing is what sounds loud to me may not be the same for others since I do have impaired hearing on some frequencies.  I was in FA (LIGHT) and AR (HEAVY) in my first Army units.

[Fate]

Relatively speaking, it takes 3 decibels to be heard as a difference in sound.

Factor in, however, a woman's hearing being 6 decibels more acute than a man's. And remember, decibel incrementation is not linear, it's logarithmic.

So if you have a female in your life... beware. She has opinions on your guns' sounds that are different from yours.

Have fun with those meters.

https://www.leonardsax.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2010-Sax-hearing.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

[JohnnyPDX]

Relatively speaking, it takes 3 decibels to be heard as a difference in sound.

Factor in, however, a woman's hearing being 6 decibels more acute than a man's.

My wife can hear me and a buddy mumbling from 100'... "What did you just say"

Caught talking about women or whatever.