FWB124 detonation. Did I damage the rifle?

[smithgrowl]

I just had something very odd happen.  I cleaned and lubed my FWB 124 last night, including adding a few drops (I thought) of chamber oil to the piston chamber.  I loaded a pellet this afternoon and took a shot and it sounded like a .22 going off right in front of my face and I actually saw muzzle flash!  When I broke the barrel to cock the action, there was no resistance and I was afraid I had broken the mainspring but eventually I realized the rifle had recocked itself!   

I guess I put too much lube in the compression chamber. The breech had a black residue that actually smelled like powder residue from the oil burning off.  Trippy.

Subsequent shots didn't do this.  Do I need to tear down and inspect the piston cup and spring for damage or should I just leave it alone unless the rifle's performance changes? 

[CharlieDaTuna]

Not sure if there was damage to the spring but if it recocked itself, it surely went into a severe detonation and caused excessive coil bind. That is very dangerous, could even be deadly and you are lucky. I would check to see if there is a bulge in the compression tube, which I doubt with a FWB. If not, I would just shoot it unless there is a loss of power/velocity.


I can hear it now.... here goes Charlie again...

Everybody listen up.  Do you realize that if this was a gun of lesser quality, this guy could be dead.  I will tell you people again....Never...never... ever put any kind of lube in a compression chamber of a springer or a gas ram for that matter. People do not realize just how dangerous it can be. I would expect one day that we will read again about someone getting their face half blown off or a mouth full of no teeth. It has happened in the past and it's just a matter of time we will read about it again. I have seen what can happen.

Some of you people scare the he!! out of me. For those of you that run your mouth and are advocates of introducing lube into the compression tubes, you need to keep your darn mouth shut, do your thing and just blow your own darn face off.  

 CDT

[Mark 611]

you tell'em Charlie!! I'm with ya 100%

[thekid]

You can never say it enough...

For all of us that have had the pleasure of being a member for a while have been blessed with pro's to guide us in the right direction.

There will always be the new guy on the block who has yet to learn this, wish all who played with air rifles would visit this site and learn something useful.

Thanks again charlie!
Rob

[gene_sc]

Safety is our biggest concern here on the GTA. Please heed what Bob is saying. There is no sense in anyone getting hurt doing what Smith did.

Smith do not use any petroleum products in the chamber of any air gun.

[smithgrowl]

Wow.  That directly contradicts the instructions in the Beeman maintenance kit.  But I hear what you're saying and I believe you since it darn-near blew up in my face.

Lesson learned; no more lube in the compression (combustion) chamber!

[smithgrowl]

I'm looking at the Beeman chamber oil bottle and it says it's synthetic.  I'm wondering if I mixed up the oiling needles and used the one that had been used with the spring oil.  Maybe there were a few residual drops remaining in the needle.

I'm color coding those with a sharpie right now.

[lizzie]

Welcome to GTA smithgrowl.
So sorry for your mishap, lucky for you that you didn't get hurt. I bet it's a lesson you'll never forget. I'm a well-versed traveller down that road, lol.

[CharlieDaTuna]

Hey smithgrowl.... I think you missed the point.

 DON"T USE/PUT/INJECT/INTRODUCE ANY LUBE, EITHER SYNTHETIC OR PETROLEUM OR VEGATABLE OIL IN THE COMPRESSION CHAMBER.  MOST SYNTHETICS ALSO HAVE A FLASH POINT AND/OR WILL COMBUST UNDER EXTREME PRESSURES. They power cars with corn oil.... sometimes referred to as "Ethanol", kitchen animal fat grease.... sometimes referred to as "BioFuel" used to run deisel engines.

CDT

 

[thekid]

I'm looking at the Beeman chamber oil bottle and it says it's synthetic.  I'm wondering if I mixed up the oiling needles and used the one that had been used with the spring oil.  Maybe there were a few residual drops remaining in the needle.

I'm color coding those with a sharpie right now.

Does not matter what oil you use it will go boom.... If you are looking to get the best out of it tune it.
Oil in the transfer port was for leather seals only, synthetic seals need no oil as it is destructive to the gun and possibly you.

There is a menu bar at the top of the page, you will find the GTA library everything you need to know is there and you will be glad you read it!!
Rob

[stevemag]

today i got some Molly paste on the front of the seal when putting my 34 back together. i could smell the oil burning after the first shot. Luckily Mark611 was holding my hand (not literally) thru the whole reassembly  and caught it...all the way out there in cyberspace.

[BenjiHunter]

Thank you for this important info.

[RedFeather]

Dollars to doughnuts you mixed up the two bottles and used spring oil.  That would account for the severe detonation and flame thrower.

[Sean]

I still remember my physics professor put a piece of paper in a glass piston. He abruptly compress the piston with his hand, and the paper inflamed.

I imagine the inflammable lubes being compressed by a high power air gun piston will probably result in explosion. 

[MountainMan126]

I have been guilty of this in the beginning and have since read enough articles and responses on this forum that I no longer use any oil in the compression tube. My original thought was simple, moving parts, lube should be a good idea. Friction and speed inside the compression tube can cause temps as high as 2000 deg.F and that will cause whatever lube you have to not only combust, but leave you without any lube left inside anyway. I would figure with the kind of pressures generated during the firing cycle whatever lube didn't combust would end up inside the barrel anyway.

Best of luck,
Ethan

[norka]

I can hear it now.... here goes Charlie again...

....Never...never... ever put any kind of lube in a compression chamber of a springer or a gas ram for that matter. People do not realize just how dangerous it can be. CDT

CDT, I recently lube/tuned a Crosman springer following your instructions and you reccomended using a light film of silicone grease inside the whole length of the receiver tube. This is a quote from your instructions:

"Take the receiver and again apply a fine coat of silicone or SuperLube w/ PTFE to the inside of the tube distributing it uniformly the whole length."

Can you please clarify this?

[gene_sc]

I can reply to that. He stated to use a very small amount of dielectric lube and spread a small amount on a rag wrapped around a dowel and run it up in the action. It is not like putting toothpaste on a toothbrush. He is speaking of a dab not a strip of it... If you do the procedure correctly you will encounter very little detonation. To much and you will possibly ruin a tune job.

Keep in mind that all lubes used outside of the dielectric lube stays behind the seal. The small amount of dielectric lube is only to help with filling the cross hatch lands and tube with very thin coating for the initial installation of seal and piston.

[gamo2hammerli]

Heck, I didn't even put oil/lube into the compression chamber....it got scrapped in when I took out the piston to replace the seal, and pushed the piston back in.  That little bit of lube (Heavy tar) flung off from the main spring caused a detonation.

Next time I'll know to clean out the inside of the receiver real well before pushing the piston back in.

[pindog2000]

Thats why I don't tune I just tag em bag em ship em to ed be safe out there.

[CharlieDaTuna]

Norka….

What Gene said is correct when using Silicone grease or Dielectric lubes. And it is used strictly as an assembly assisting component, not as a lubricant. 

I did mention silicone grease or SuperLube w/PTFE. I probably should not have mentioned Silicone Grease and it certainly isn’t the best thing to use but did only because most people back then and even today couldn’t “find”  SuperLube w/PTFE. 

But let me say this. The key is “apply a fine coat of silicone or SuperLube w/PTFE to the inside of the tube distributing it uniformly the whole length.”    Just to give you an idea of “how fine” is, a 3 oz. tube of SuperLube w/ PTFE would cover over 2000 tunes and gun repairs. In over ten years of tuning and repairs and thousands of guns and using over that span of time only 2- 3 oz. tubes of SuperLube w/PTFE , I still have part of a tube left, though almost gone. That is how fine it is applied and how little is used. 

Silicone as a lube in the power plant should not be used and is certainly not designed for that type of application. I know a lot of people seem to use it but it is very ineffective long term and can actually cause more damage than good.  I have had guns come in where the silicone had actually galled up inside and seized the piston in the compression tube and had to be driven out. 

CDT