I do a lot of pesting and small game hunting, so you'd think I'd be all about .22 especially with an unchoked LW in my Leshiy.Surprise!Most versatile is the .35 because air-bolts, slugs, and diabolo pellets can all be shot from the same barrels. .30 needs more love in the bolt arena..22 and .25 offer slugs and pellets but no bolts.So, going strictly by ammo types as showing "more versatile", .35 wins by a landslide since it offers slugs, pellets, and bolts and tunes down easier than the bigger bores.
Hahahaha you guys are killing me I was trying not to go there and stay a bit moderate and compromise also for .357 there's a myriad of Cowboy bullet casters that have pretty cheap prices
Quote from: PikeP on July 09, 2020, 02:48:16 PMI don't care much for these kind of topics as they are controversial and stir the pot with peoples beliefs or feelings...the answer is so subjective. If you were to attempt to objectively answer this, you'd maybe say the most versatile should be whatever is middle ground, which allows the largest swing in energy variance to cover nearby calibers. If you were to answer this through the lens of which caliber is most practical in terms of cost and potential energy range it covers, then that answer shifts. If you were to answer this through the filter that omits cost/efficiency, you'll get another answer. If you have a minimum energy requirement that must be met to fit within this 'versatile' definition, well then that completely disqualifies many smaller calibers...you see where I am going? That said the obvious answer is .25 or .30 cal (joking)As far as cost goes one advantage .25 and .30 have over .217 and .177 is the use of buckshot which comes sized .250 for #3 and .300 for #1.https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Lead-Buckshot/products/65/https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!c=133At either $39 for 8 lbs (Ballistic products) or $81 for 25 lbs (Remington) the price per buckshot is inexpensive..Price works out to be either 1.1 cents or 1.6 cents for each 23.3 grain .250 round ball (#3 buckshot) with the 41.7 grain .300 roundball (#1 buckshot) being either 1.9 cents or 2.9 cents depending on whether bought as either 25# Remington or 8# Ballistic products.With that noted, I have read that the buckshot can be inconsistent in size and that sometimes there can be problems with chambering. The following thread points to guns chambered for cast bullets in order to allow easy loading:https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=25387.0Quote from: rsterne on February 03, 2012, 01:46:06 AMI found the Hornady #3 a mixed bag in a .25.... They aren't very consistent for size, with some chambering easily and some you had to nearly hammer into the breech.... If they fit your gun properly, they will work fine and not damaged the bore because they are lead.... The rifling will grip them fine, and they will spin properly.... again, providing they are a decent fit....Bob Quote from: Mark 611 on February 03, 2012, 08:42:41 AMif you have a tight in led in the bore some of the round ball is hard to load but I had a 25cal LW barrel and had no issues with the Hornady shot fitting into the breech and they shot very good out to 30yds, I was shooting them into a 8x8 piece of fur pine and they penetrated about 3/4'' from a gun that shot 650fps Quote from: rsterne on February 03, 2012, 01:27:07 PMIf the barrel is "chambered" for a cast bullet then there would likely be no loading issue.... If the chamber is shallow and the ball engages the rifling before reaching its seated position, you may have difficulty in loading.... My guess would be that in a B-28 that would be the case.... but you would have to try it to see.... Anyway, in answer to your original question, #3 buckshot is the proper size for a .25 cal....BobP.S. Mark 611's Lothar Walther .25 barrel has .254" groove diameter so I wonder if was more than just the chamber that made it easy to load?
I don't care much for these kind of topics as they are controversial and stir the pot with peoples beliefs or feelings...the answer is so subjective. If you were to attempt to objectively answer this, you'd maybe say the most versatile should be whatever is middle ground, which allows the largest swing in energy variance to cover nearby calibers. If you were to answer this through the lens of which caliber is most practical in terms of cost and potential energy range it covers, then that answer shifts. If you were to answer this through the filter that omits cost/efficiency, you'll get another answer. If you have a minimum energy requirement that must be met to fit within this 'versatile' definition, well then that completely disqualifies many smaller calibers...you see where I am going? That said the obvious answer is .25 or .30 cal (joking)
I found the Hornady #3 a mixed bag in a .25.... They aren't very consistent for size, with some chambering easily and some you had to nearly hammer into the breech.... If they fit your gun properly, they will work fine and not damaged the bore because they are lead.... The rifling will grip them fine, and they will spin properly.... again, providing they are a decent fit....Bob
if you have a tight in led in the bore some of the round ball is hard to load but I had a 25cal LW barrel and had no issues with the Hornady shot fitting into the breech and they shot very good out to 30yds, I was shooting them into a 8x8 piece of fur pine and they penetrated about 3/4'' from a gun that shot 650fps
If the barrel is "chambered" for a cast bullet then there would likely be no loading issue.... If the chamber is shallow and the ball engages the rifling before reaching its seated position, you may have difficulty in loading.... My guess would be that in a B-28 that would be the case.... but you would have to try it to see.... Anyway, in answer to your original question, #3 buckshot is the proper size for a .25 cal....Bob
"How is it physically possible to have a rifled barrel impart a spin on the BB and combine it with the Magnus effect of the hop-up? It is two totally different axes of rotation!" A1. Actually, the barrel ISN'T "rifled" in the standard sense of a real gun. Yes, the inner barrel has spiral rifling grooves in it, but the BB does NOT touch the groove. The purpose of the TWIST inner barrel is not to put a rifling spin on the BB. It is to put a "cyclone" of air around the BB, to help float it through the inner barrel and PREVENT the BB from touching the side walls of the inner barrel at all.
What about a smoothbore .357 (or maybe even .45) that shoots:1. Lead Round ball (ideally with retractable/adjustable bucking in order to increase range of roundball via backspin, see post above this one. Magazine like a girardoni air rifle would be nice.)2. Arrows3. Shotshells4. Diabolo Pellets, either lead or the Rubber (reusable) training ones mentioned earlier on this page.
Quote from: UnderPressure on July 11, 2020, 06:47:43 PMWhat about a smoothbore .357 (or maybe even .45) that shoots:1. Lead Round ball (ideally with retractable/adjustable bucking in order to increase range of roundball via backspin, see post above this one. Magazine like a girardoni air rifle would be nice.)2. Arrows3. Shotshells4. Diabolo Pellets, either lead or the Rubber (reusable) training ones mentioned earlier on this page. Rifled barrel is much better ;More accurate with pellets,More accurate with Bullets,Airbolts need the rifleled barrel to impart spin on the arrows,More accurate with lead roundball ( back in the day when there was no ammo really I used to shoot the Ballistic Product .360 roundball a lot )
Quote from: Nomadic Pirate on July 11, 2020, 07:09:27 PMQuote from: UnderPressure on July 11, 2020, 06:47:43 PMWhat about a smoothbore .357 (or maybe even .45) that shoots:1. Lead Round ball (ideally with retractable/adjustable bucking in order to increase range of roundball via backspin, see post above this one. Magazine like a girardoni air rifle would be nice.)2. Arrows3. Shotshells4. Diabolo Pellets, either lead or the Rubber (reusable) training ones mentioned earlier on this page. Rifled barrel is much better ;More accurate with pellets,More accurate with Bullets,Airbolts need the rifleled barrel to impart spin on the arrows,More accurate with lead roundball ( back in the day when there was no ammo really I used to shoot the Ballistic Product .360 roundball a lot )It could also have portion at the end of the smooth bore barrel for both rifled and choke (i.e. shotgun) inserts. (e.g. FX smooth twist barrels were accurate with pellets even though they were mostly smooth bore.)P.S. The .45 wouldn't need any rifling twist for the arrows. (Reason: the vanes on the .45 arrows do the stabilizing.)
Quote from: UnderPressure on July 11, 2020, 07:15:48 PMQuote from: Nomadic Pirate on July 11, 2020, 07:09:27 PMQuote from: UnderPressure on July 11, 2020, 06:47:43 PMWhat about a smoothbore .357 (or maybe even .45) that shoots:1. Lead Round ball (ideally with retractable/adjustable bucking in order to increase range of roundball via backspin, see post above this one. Magazine like a girardoni air rifle would be nice.)2. Arrows3. Shotshells4. Diabolo Pellets, either lead or the Rubber (reusable) training ones mentioned earlier on this page. Rifled barrel is much better ;More accurate with pellets,More accurate with Bullets,Airbolts need the rifleled barrel to impart spin on the arrows,More accurate with lead roundball ( back in the day when there was no ammo really I used to shoot the Ballistic Product .360 roundball a lot )It could also have portion at the end of the smooth bore barrel for both rifled and choke (i.e. shotgun) inserts. (e.g. FX smooth twist barrels were accurate with pellets even though they were mostly smooth bore.)P.S. The .45 wouldn't need any rifling twist for the arrows. (Reason: the vanes on the .45 arrows do the stabilizing.)Nope,Vanes in the .45 and .50 are straight so they don'y impart any spinning, they rely on the nock to engage the rifleing and impart the spin,.....I had a Claw .50 with Airbolts and that's how they work.
The benefit of a straight vane is zero speed loss. Since the vane does not veer off to the left or right the vane it'self will not be forced to spin by the wind. This means the arrow is not slowed by the vane catching wind and the vanes are instead just slicing through the wind. Unfortunately this also means the arrow is resisting a spin causing it to become slightly less stable. This is an effect that is hard to notice at shorter distances but it can make things a little harder for you once you start getting back to 40 yards or more.
Either way, when I get a REX .50 I will trim down the vanes down to next to nothing.
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