D54 accuracy expectations

[dtdtdtdt]

Another thought!

Hector Medina has mentioned several times that he shoots about 10 pellets into the backstop or a sighter target before shooting for record to loosen and warm the gun to normal operating temperatures because they are sometimes erratic.  I shoot several sighter shots to verify zero and sometimes have unexplained flyers too.

By the way, do you see the spiral path of the pellet on the way to the target.  There has been substantial discussion of that here and in other forums.  Interesting to watch.

Have fun!

[RwP]

Mite look at a Caldwell Deadshot Fieldpod Aluminum, works for me on squirrels at 40 plus with a HW50.

[HectorMedina]

So reading through all of the treads associated with the 54, is shifting POI usually associated with issues of the sled adjustment?  Attached are my groups from bucket and sticks at 58 yards tonight.  I would get 4 or so shots in one spot then 5 or 6 above or below.  The one next to the dime is 4 shot on POA, then 6 shots about a 0.6 mil high.  Mine is a well used/abused RWS56 that I bought online.  I cleaned the compression tube up, replaced the destroyed seal, straightened the cocking rod and added a vortek kit.  I did not touch the sled and it has a very light adjustment.  It is doing 880 fps with JSB 10.34.  No ZR mount just a UTG MOA mount and 2-piece rings.  If it weren't for the POI shift and the hard cocking, this would be the cat's meow...

Dan

To ME, this is typical of a failing scope. Have you tried other scopes?

HM

[DEAN]

Just went out and shot these 2 groups with my .177 Mod 54 at 57 yds, one aiming at center of cross the other aiming at the top of it..Both groups are slightly larger then a quarter.. Each group has 10-15 pellets in it..pellets used were Beeman Kodiaks at around 890fps, gun has a Macarri kit in it.
 Was shot off a rolled up pad off my deck rail sitting. Also this was shot with no warm up shots for me or gun just sit down and shoot.

[HectorMedina]

Just went out and shot these 2 groups with my .177 Mod 54 at 57 yds, one aiming at center of cross the other aiming at the top of it..Both groups are slightly larger then a quarter.. Each group has 10-15 pellets in it..pellets used were Beeman Kodiaks at around 890fps, gun has a Macarri kit in it.
 Was shot off a rolled up pad off my deck rail sitting. Also this was shot with no warm up shots for me or gun just sit down and shoot.

Good shooting!

Did you record which shots went where?

Mine usually shoot the CB shot a little to the left and down (about 8 O'Clock). Then the second shot will be dead on, curiously, the third shot also goes to the 1st POI, and then they start walking to the POA.

I COULD start shooting at the 5th shot, but I prefer to shoot a bit more, perhaps it is ME the one who is warming up?  LOL!

Congrats!





HM

[DEAN]

1st shot was almost in the center, actually the 1st 3 were.the two outside to the right were my last 2 shots.

[HectorMedina]

OK, so, if the first aimpoint was at the center of the cross and the first shot landed at the center, then the group MOVED to 5 O'Clock, then that is what we all observe.

The fact that you have your gun sighted in to the CB shot tells me that you are more a hunter than a target shooter, and that is fine.

But it is THIS variance what we, in general, try to avoid when shooting at targets because, once you start shooting, you keep on shooting and it is important to maintain the conditions of operation as constant as possible, like any other mechanical system.

Thanks for the picture!



HM

[Duckfish]

No doubt the OP is becoming a better shot, and the gun is settling in.  I wonder if he has found its favorite JSB pellet. 

Shooting groups is just one way of training.  I would like to see him move the target closer and shoot a benchrest style of targets.  This would provide some additional insight.

Here's an example of what I'm trying to explain.  It's much harder to shoot than a group.

[Fate]

Ed, by any chance do you have a link that will let me print those?

[Duckfish]

http://www.airtanksforsale.com/

All the at the bottom

[DEAN]

Hector you are right, while I used to shoot hunter field target 18 yrs ago Im a hunter for the most part(99 percent)..my practice usually involves shooting the heads of clover off or cutting weed stems at 35-40 yds.. I do shoot paper a lot also.
 Used to do pest control on a big outdoor hog farm and a goat/cattle farm, now squirrel hunt and eliminate the local starlings who try to oust the resident woodpeckers from their nest holes.

[HectorMedina]

Dean;

You remind me a lot of a friend Dean Mihailovits that used to shoot at DIFTA.
He shot real well his 54 from the prone position. Even with bad knees, he would go out and shoot. Admirable character. He moved out of the area, so I lost track of him, but I remember him fondly.

Keep well and I don't need to tell you to shoot straight, LOL!




HM

[Fate]

Thanks a million Ed! I've wanted that target a long time.

[mcoulter]

Thanks folks for such a good discussion on this topic!  Sorry that dropped out of the discussion in recent days. (Life does get busy!).   

I'm going to circle back to one of Héctor's comments about not having shot from a bench in many years.   I have NEVER shot well when off the bench.  However, that comment has stuck with me and I had to give it a try again. 

Yup, I'm as bad as ever.        BUT... It also made me wonder what the rifle felt like if I swapped back to the peep sights that it came with (now that the sled is not binding).  All I can say is WOW! without the mass of the scope and mount on top of the gun, this rifle is a sweet shooter off hand!  I'm still a really bad off-hand shooter, but I can say that just how pleasurable this platform is in this configuration.  The most notable or memorable part of how the gun shoots now with the Williams sight is just how easy it is to keep the sights in view throughout the shot cycle.   And I suspect this goes back to the earlier comments of having a proper cheek weld.    And I would add that it's also easier to get a good, repeatable shoulder placement on the stock when not on the bench. 

As a baseline (with hopes of improving these!), here are some targets shot from a seated position with my supporting arm rested on my leg.  These were with JSB 15.9 shooting at about 735 fps at 35-yards and I was using a clear front aperture insert.  This was the first time I used this particular insert.  Using this insert was pretty interesting too.   I will say that I had set up some metal spinners next to the target and these spinners, which I have pained white, where basically invisible to my eye when using this front sight...

[DrPutz]

So, I removed the stock and checked the tension on the locking ball - sure enough it was quite loose.  I removed the grease and tightened the ball up per the other threads.  Once re-assembled, no apparent shift in the POI during the shooting round.  It appears that previously, the action would slide back and bump the rear - causing the apparent POI to shift up.  Now, it only slides about 3/4 of the way back.  Unfortunately, the breezes and rain over the weekend prevented a thorough testing. 

Thanks for solving this mystery! 

Dan

[mcoulter]

... Now, it only slides about 3/4 of the way back...   

Yup, this describes the behavior on my gun too.  The sled travels back most (but not all the way) backwards during the shot.   

[truck driver]

Some of us also put O-rings on the rails to keep the sleds from bumping hard on the frame and cushion the impact. I like mine set so it holds when it is cocked and don't have to set it by hand but not so tight it releases too late to be effective.

What I don't understand is how the action/ sledge was binding with the scope mounted on the rifle?

[mcoulter]

Some of us also put O-rings on the rails to keep the sleds from bumping hard on the frame and cushion the impact. I like mine set so it holds when it is cocked and don't have to set it by hand but not so tight it releases too late to be effective.

What I don't understand is how the action/ sledge was binding with the scope mounted on the rifle?

Sorry, this long thread may make it hard to unravel some of the issues here...  The binding was caused by a non-standard front stock screw and cap.  The previous owner had mounted a bipod on the gun using the front mounting screw as the fastener.  That long screw and plastic cap was what caused the binding, not the scope and rail!

[dtdtdtdt]

You said: "As a baseline (with hopes of improving these!), here are some targets shot from a seated position with my supporting arm rested on my leg.  These were with JSB 15.9 shooting at about 735 fps at 35-yards and I was using a clear front aperture insert.  This was the first time I used this particular insert.  Using this insert was pretty interesting too.   I will say that I had set up some metal spinners next to the target and these spinners, which I have pained white, where basically invisible to my eye when using this front sight..."

There are several different kinds of inserts available depending upon your front sight size.  Check Champion's Choice website to see the variety.  Also just google front sight inserts and you should get a bunch of pictures.  Brownell's also sells many different kinds. 

If you don't want to invest in an experiment, I suggest:  using a countersink bit by hand carefully champfer the hole to give an approximate 45degree conical hole.  Use a sharpie to black the champfered section as a black ring.  I did this years ago when shooting small bore prone with iron sights.  Al Freeland's company - long gone! - manufactured tube-type front sights that used the plastic inserts.  His were about 1/8" thick.  Worked well.  I used them exclusively.  I cleaned up the inserts by the above method.