Sleeving FX .25 STX Supreme liner

[darkcharisma]

Ernest Rowe uses Dap bathroom sealant caulking on his CF sleeves. And he is the FX expert.

Hes the fx expert? You mean the guy I corrected and guided as to how to obtain more power when he was seeking for such in .30 cal on the impacts?

Sure...expert on fx because hes spent countless hours repairing and disassembling them...but NOT an expert in a general sense, nor logical sense. Bathroom sealant dries very soft, and to be used in any shape or form with barrel sleeving/stiffening is counter-intuitive, and quite frankly, the idea is dumber than a box of rocks...I not only highly advise against it, but I encourage you to thoroughly chew the @@@ out of anyone who attempts it.

His video of installing the carbon fiber only as a means to get rid of the orings...not to stiffen the barrel. the steel barrel sleeve will take care of the stiffness.
  some people do perceive his carbon sleeving video differently just because he used bathroom sealant. That stuff i used on rain gutters lasted 10 years outside and was still bonding well when i tried to remove it. the softness will aid in countering the vibration just like the orings.
To me, that was a video mainly for aesthetics only because he has them in several colors. So obviously i approved of his methods to sleeve a liner with carbon fiber inside steel barrel tubes for vibration and looks upon pulling out. maybe its also a good way to tell which color is slug liner and which color is pellet liner.

now, as to how you guided him. i like to know more details about that. My hunch is that he knows about the concept of pursuing power but was humbled to absorb all information, he's not a dummy.

[PikeP]

Ernest Rowe uses Dap bathroom sealant caulking on his CF sleeves. And he is the FX expert.

Hes the fx expert? You mean the guy I corrected and guided as to how to obtain more power when he was seeking for such in .30 cal on the impacts?

Sure...expert on fx because hes spent countless hours repairing and disassembling them...but NOT an expert in a general sense, nor logical sense. Bathroom sealant dries very soft, and to be used in any shape or form with barrel sleeving/stiffening is counter-intuitive, and quite frankly, the idea is dumber than a box of rocks...I not only highly advise against it, but I encourage you to thoroughly chew the @@@ out of anyone who attempts it.

His video of installing the carbon fiber only as a means to get rid of the orings...not to stiffen the barrel. the steel barrel sleeve will take care of the stiffness.
  some people do perceive his carbon sleeving video differently just because he used bathroom sealant. That stuff i used on rain gutters lasted 10 years outside and was still bonding well when i tried to remove it. the softness will aid in countering the vibration just like the orings.
To me, that was a video mainly for aesthetics only because he has them in several colors. So obviously i approved of his methods to sleeve a liner with carbon fiber inside steel barrel tubes for vibration and looks upon pulling out. maybe its also a good way to tell which color is slug liner and which color is pellet liner.

now, as to how you guided him. i like to know more details about that. My hunch is that he knows about the concept of pursuing power but was humbled to absorb all information, he's not a dummy.

I didn't save the links, but the history is there over on AGN if you search for it, back when he was experimenting with dual port tps/thimbles...its not rather important though, and I have no need to fabricate such stories. Hes knowledgeable to some degree but if you're applying bathroom caulk as a means of sleeving a barrel, you're bonkers.

[RDB]

I didn't save the links, but the history is there over on AGN if you search for it, back when he was experimenting with dual port tps/thimbles...its not rather important though, and I have no need to fabricate such stories. Hes knowledgeable to some degree but if you're applying bathroom caulk as a means of sleeving a barrel, you're bonkers.
[/quote]


Don't see a problem with it. 3 o rings or totally suspended in a carbon fiber tube.  As Duy pointed out, the barrel sleeve takes care of the stiffness. Bet it works just as well if not better than a few o-rings supporting the liner.

[darkcharisma]

His methods may not work for you or yours for his. if soft caulking works for him then it works for him. there is not a law laid down for methods to "sleeve" carbon. most people reported hood results with locktite and jb weld, but doesnt mean caulk wont work.
 he may be an idiot years ago when he experimented those, he may be an expert now. knowledge change overtime.

 if it were me to sleeve carbon fiber for stiffness, i would not have a loose tolerance and would use locktite, thats because i dont want to spend time exploring other options.

[cosmic]

[PikeP]

I dont know how you defend or encourage the use of bathroom caulk to sleeve barrels but I'm still going to say its absolutely bonkers and that it gives me a good giggle..why not just use a few orings at that point and call it good. If I wanna wear my shoe as a hat you have every right to think I am silly and bonkers..I didnt state its an illegal activity so not sure why law is brought into it...now lets move on from this silly discussion on the use of bathroom caulk when barrel sleeving...

[Rallyshark]

I dont know how you defend or encourage the use of bathroom caulk to sleeve barrels but I'm still going to say its absolutely bonkers and that it gives me a good giggle..why not just use a few orings at that point and call it good. If I wanna wear my shoe as a hat you have every right to think I am silly and bonkers..I didnt state its an illegal activity so not sure why law is brought into it...now lets move on from this silly discussion on the use of bathroom caulk when barrel sleeving...

I've noticed you have a lot of silly discussions that require moving on from...  You get more bees with honey than vinegar my friend  

[JoeShmoe]

If the only thing you're concerned about is adhesion, why is bathroom caulk a bad idea? I can't imagine the stress you could possibly induce between a barrel and a tight sleeve are much greater than the ones created by the flexing if the bathtub when you step into it. My experience with (most) caulk has generally been that it's a weak adhesive, but doesn't seem like you need a particularly strong adhesive for the job. Of course, now that I think of it I don't really imagine the caulk in the middle of the sleeve drying anytime soon.

[JoeShmoe]

Is carbon fiber anyway permeable to oxygen/air? Most caulk chemistries I know require exposure to oxygen to "set."

[nervoustrigger]

[YEMX]

Nervoustrigger- 

Anyhoo, I'll be following this thread with more intent- I just got a .30 smooth twist from AoA *facepalm*  Why am I like this?!

[Rallyshark]

Nervoustrigger- 

Anyhoo, I'll be following this thread with more intent- I just got a .30 smooth twist from AoA *facepalm*  Why am I like this?!

Dude, you have more projects going on than anybody I know,lol!  Not that it is a bad thing   I'm sure Mike D will make it work, whichever direction he goes with the carbon bonding process!

[YEMX]

Nervoustrigger- 

Anyhoo, I'll be following this thread with more intent- I just got a .30 smooth twist from AoA *facepalm*  Why am I like this?!

Dude, you have more projects going on than anybody I know,lol!  Not that it is a bad thing

Well, my entire .30 Mrod bullpup was lost in the mail- totally my fault.  Still really bummed about it.  But then I saw these smooth twist barrels at AoA, and I've always wanted to build something using a smooth twist barrel...   

[Bunyboyz]

In case you had any doubt. (If you’re visiting this thread, far in the future) The guy doing the video certainly doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He may of misspoke but he contradicts himself many times in the same sentence. I think it’s agreed don’t use silicone bathroom sealant.

It’s elastomeric meaning it stays flexible the bonds are very weak. It is the total opposite of using an epoxy.

Toothpicks to center may be the best bet.
 
Glad Yemx is a fellow Marylander and I will be taking you up on that offer and look forward to shooting sometime.

Keep us updated.

[mtnGhost]

His video of installing the carbon fiber only as a means to get rid of the orings...not to stiffen the barrel.

He stated pretty clearly at 2:35 in his video that the purpose was to "make it stiff" and "absorb the vibrations" -

I did a very similar CF wrap with red Permatex RTV with one of my FX liners, but it didn't seem to have any noticeable benefits for harmonics over my PEEK / acetal liner bushings (wrapped with PTFE).

I have not yet gone as far as to do a bull barrel liner conversion like Knife had done a little while back, but I'm definitely thinking about it for my 700mm liners, because the harmonics in those are god awful. Before I go down that path, I want to attempt a liner "stretch" setup with ER collet chucks first.

Now recently, I have found that adding a beefy brass bushing sandwiched between my overall liner bushing assembly provided a POSITIVE improvement to my groups.

[RDB]

I've used 4000 psi gap filling epoxy to sleeve the liner in my impact. 2 orings in the center and one at each end. Gets thrown on the floor of my truck and always holds poi poa.

[darkcharisma]

His video of installing the carbon fiber only as a means to get rid of the orings...not to stiffen the barrel.

I did a very similar CF wrap with red Permatex RTV with one of my FX liners, but it didn't seem to have any noticeable benefits for harmonics over my PEEK / acetal liner bushings (wrapped with PTFE).

My statement above was my opinion, i dont think it is "twice as stiff" as he claimed. maybe 10-25% more stiff not 100% more. maybe you can tell us that silicone can be used as a sealant in carbon sleeving a barrel. and if it does provide the stiffness needed. since you have used silicone sealants too.

------
Pilkep, Silicone is a sealant, so is locktite and JB weld. i just laugh when you had that analogy. shoes are footwear and hats are headwear, a man can wear high heels for all that i care but to put shoes on for hats.  now thats bonkers. The man chose his  choice of sealant and Pipep wants to chew the @&$7 out of him and call him an idiot. Now, this is what i defended, i careless about what he choose as a sealant. i should move on too. this is a waste of time...

[KnifeMaker]

Mike, sorry Sir, I forgot an important step. I used seamless steel tubing over the actual liner then the CF. I did this to give the set screws of the action block something to tighten up against rather than damaging the rather thin liner.


Sorry for missing this step. Man, Old age!!!  GRRRRR!!


Folks, I've know Ernest (Not his actual name) for a lot of years. From the old TAG Days. He is far from a fool! One of the most innovative people I know. If he listened to someone as if he had now idea how to make power, I can bet money he was being his typical Modest self. That is just how he is.


Many over the years have called me well, good at what I do. I never fail to listen to both experts and newbie full of enthusiasm makers. One, it is polite. Two, every once in a while you get a nugget to build on. No man is an island!


Nothing bothers me more than the arrogant, rude attitude of some in their chosen vocation, finding it impossible to think a person may just have a good idea. Lots of those types out there!  Even new members who for what ever reason come in here and let every one know that they know everything. Done everything, and in no way willing to learn anything new. Only their ideas have merit. Now that's bonkers!

GRRRRRR!!!


 


Knife 

[mackeral5]

I never expected this to be such an entertaining thread. 

Lots of good info, obviously  there are many ways to skin this cat.  I am preferential to a tight fit that facilitates using loctite 680.  I've done 4 other barrels in this manner and it works well for me. 

Whether intended or not, Matt's responses can be interpreted as very arrogant.  He has no problems making demeaning statements towards others and their methods- for example if you use a balance valve or a light hammer he has all but stated you are an idiot.   And I use both, so I guess I am an idiot, lol.... .  Matt gets a little testy when his methods are even remotely challenged---for example see his defense of using a leather striker in other threads.  He is obviously a very smart guy, but his delivery and apparent superiority complex get in the way of his ability to collaborate and compromise with other people and their ideas.....  I have a coworker and life-long friend who is of a very similar temperament.    It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.  Matt apparently doesn't lose any sleep over it, neither should the rest of us. 

[Lani52]

Begs me to ask.  I have a Bulldog upper I want to tension.

It is a Bulldog upper, barrel shortened 1 inch to remove the flat at the muzzle, barrel sticks out of the shortened shroud and is threaded 5/8-18 with a nut and does not vent into the shroud. 

What would you fellows use to fill the shroud around the barrel, and how much pressure would you tighten the barrel nut on the muzzle?

Hope Mike does not feel I am stealing his thread, just felt with all the experts here would be a good time to ask before everyone goes to fist-i-cuffs.

Regards,

Roachcreek