392 for Steroid help needed-accuracy/consistency

[3crows]

I bought on closeout at under $50 three 392 air rifles. I gave one to my next door neighbor boy and kept two. Two were very new manufacture and one though NIB was obviously slightly older manufacture as it does not have the gold printed warning label. Of course it is the one I like best.

Problem, the older 392 retains air even at 6 pumps and is inconsistent in that retention. It has gotten worse, it used to  retain air only very slightly at 8 pumps. It has not been left cocked. The newer two guns, including the one I gave off, do not retain air at 8 pumps. I want to send one off for the Steroid mods and I have spoken to Mac1 regarding that and the very nice and infomrative gentleman did tell me not to send him an inaccurate rifle. The rifle I like best but which retains air shoots inconsistently at times but when it does shoot decent, it seems to group nice enough. The other rifle is not bad either. I have shot a group of targets with several rifles for comparison.

[3crows]

The 392 (older) is fitted with a BSA Edge 2X scope in scout position with a Mac1 mount, the newer Benji 392 is open sights. I also used my Target Savage shooting CCI Quiet, my Crosman 140 open sights and a Stoeger X20 with scope on spring tube. I shot at 20 yars with a Kansas quarter and gusty wind from the right. No worries mates, I live in a rural area and have acreage and often shoot my Marlin 45-70 and no animals were harmed, especially my blue birds I guard over.

I have a retinal tear in my right eye, I have great difficulty shooting open sights but with a scope I usually do okay. The mix of rifles was to provide a control group for comparison to the two 392 rifles.

Question 1: I am trying to determine if either is a candidate for Steroid mods. The inconsistent air retention in the older 392 would be remedied would it not in the Steroid mod?

Question 2: Aside from the inconsistent air retention, what other factors, shooter (me) aside, affect accuracy on two brand new rifles?

The older 392 has about 200 pellets through it. The newer manufacture may have 50 at most. The old Crosman 140 probably has thousands as it has been mine since Christmas 1966. I am shooting Crosman 14.3 grains in all rifles, the hollow point version and the same pellet but in a .177 for the Stoeger X20. The Savage Target heavy barrel, CCI Quiet Segmented. BTW, the CCI Quiet is indeed very quiet.

[3crows]

I am going to try and post a photo of the targets:

[3crows]

These were shot at 20 yards, quartering wind, gusting 20 knots from the right. Left top is the Savage 22 Target with CCI Quiet. Next over is the Stoeger X20 .177 with Crosman Premier HP pellets and is Scoped with a 12X BSA air rifle rated scope. Next to the right is the older 392 with a BSA Edge 2X scope on a Mac1 mount scout install, Crosman Premier HP pellets and then top right is the newer 392, open sights and finally, second row, right is the Crosman 140 also open sights. I am shooting all rifles from a Caldwell Stinger bench rest weighted with sand bags.

Question 3: considering I cannot see clearly for open sights, which rifle is better for Steroiding, new or old? The new one that does not retain air and is not broken in or the older one that inconsistently retains air but occasionally shoots good and is not really broken in either?

Oh, after each shot I re-cocked both Benjis and dumped any remaining air. I pumped each 6 pumps for these groups. I fired each rifle several times to heat them up a little before grouping. And BTW, the Savage, when I am serious, will shoot through one ragged hole or better at 50 yards when there is no wind ruining me. The only rifle I have had that does better is a Marlin HB 17HMR, it is one hole at 100 yards.

Any thoughts sincerely appreciated. I intend these rifles for hunting, not bench rest shooting. Pumpers are for hunting/pest control!

James

[3crows]

It started raining so forgive the less than rustic photo of the rifles used:



The "older" 392 is the new one with the scout scope, the "newer" new one is the one without.

Thanks for any help.
James

[Robert 5mm]

James,
There is no mechanical difference of internal parts between your two Benjamin 392's.
The newer one has gold paint rather than the metal etching on the tubing.

[Back_Roads]

 OK have you checked for and removed any paint overspray in the muzzle end of the rifle ?, if one knew that or possibly the no dump on fire may also varying velocities, no way to tell w/o a crono.
 If doing a steroid I would assume the valve and everything on either end would be replaced or the lest inspected.

[Habanero69er]

Tim McMurray basically says if it’s a good shooter, then it is a candidate for being a Steroid. No sense in Steroiding an inaccurate rifle.
I would first check for paint overspray in the muzzle. Then clean it up if necessary & then check accuracy. If accuracy is acceptable, then consider a Steroid mod. The Steroid will definitely fix the retained air issue.

[3crows]

Thanks, yes, the paint was removed from the barrels. The photos demonstrate the level of accuracy at 20+ yards with a 2X scope (and some wind) off the Stinger bench rest. The target photos also demonstrate a variety of rifles, same place and time for comparison. Is that accuracy shown sufficient to go Steroid?

Just now shooting the "old" 392 with pointed Crosman 14.3 left and Gamo TS22 21gr. right from the Stinger bench at a measured 25 yards, is this good enough??? Remember, this is a 2X scope and I cannot see worth a darn:



The shooting set up:



I am asking what may sound like stupid questions because I do not know what level of accuracy is expected of a candidate rifle such that I will not get fussed at. I intend, again, this rifle for pest control and hunting at up to 25 yards, not 100 yard bench rest competition. What group is good enough from a 392 to warrant Steroiding?

Beyond 25 yards I have several Savage 22 rifles that will shoot out to a hundred yards accurately and several centerfire rifles that can go much further, the 392 is intended for my use for little critters up close.

The "old" 392 retains and dumps air in an inconsistent manner making accuracy potential difficult to determine.

And just for fun, my stainless Marlin 336 with bench loads at 100 yards today:



Thanks,
James

[Habanero69er]

Accuracy looks good to me.
As long as you’re happy, I’d say contact Tim McMurray and make arrangements.

Btw, how do you like your Stinger ?

[3crows]

Accuracy looks good to me.
As long as you’re happy, I’d say contact Tim McMurray and make arrangements.

Btw, how do you like your Stinger ?

Yes sir, I think it is good enough. I did speak to Mr. Tim and seriously he is full of information. But he told me not to send him a bad rifle because he does not like to put his name on it. And I do not want to disappoint him with a bad rifle! I think both of my 392 rifles are good enough. Not great, but good enough.

I can shoot fairly decently, my home range, 150 yards, JM Marlin Texan, bench loads:



I know what to expect of powder burners and I almost might be slightly expert on Marlin lever guns, well, at least almost semi-knowledgeable but not pump air rifles.

Oh, edit to add, the Stinger BR. Well, I bought it mostly for my 22 rifles. It does not have a tray for bags as might be used with heavier calibers. I think it is fine for air rifles and 22 rifles of various sorts. Not so much for heavy hitters. You might notice the shot with the red X on it. The pinion slipped down just as I pulled the trigger. It requires occasional friction adjustment.

Thanks again,
James

[Habanero69er]

When you say “heavy hitters”, what would you consider a heavy hitter? I have a Will Piatt .357 Recluse shooting around 200fpe & a WP .25 Sumatra shooting around 85fpe.
Do you feel the Stinger would be a good choice?

[Bryan Heimann]

Accuracy is not bad for pellets off the shelf.  The ts22 groups are exceptional for Gamo pellets.  I would like to see how it groups with some better ammo but yes, i think They are worthy rifles.

I must say that is some dang good shooting with the leverguns.  Barrel banded marlins shooting sub-moa... i am about to send you a PM hehe

[3crows]

When you say “heavy hitters”, what would you consider a heavy hitter? I have a Will Piatt .357 Recluse shooting around 200fpe & a WP .25 Sumatra shooting around 85fpe.
Do you feel the Stinger would be a good choice?

The heavy hitters would be something like a .308 or my .338 Win Mag or my fav of the last few years, Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. The Marlin is essentially a shoulder mounted cannon and accurate too. And the 45-70 will per reports I will never need to verify, shoot through longways an African Rhino. I bought it when I was going to Alaska for defense against bears. I plan another trip, now delayed until summer 2021 due to the World Wide Freakout. I would say the Stinger is completely adequate and fun to use for anything powered by air and most smaller caliber powder burners.The Stinger will handle heavier calibers but I do have to reposition it every time whereas with a .22 I do not (of course!).

Yes, for air rifles and small powder burners and informal fun bench shooting the Stinger would be a good choice, a great choice. It is not heavy enough to prevent getting the snot kicked out of me with the 45-70 loaded up with Buffalo Bore +P bear defence ammo or .338 Win Mag.

[3crows]

Accuracy is not bad for pellets off the shelf.  The ts22 groups are exceptional for Gamo pellets.  I would like to see how it groups with some better ammo but yes, i think They are worthy rifles.

I must say that is some dang good shooting with the leverguns.  Barrel banded marlins shooting sub-moa... i am about to send you a PM hehe

Thanks, I am beginning to be confident I will not get fussed at, .

Well, I picked the best Marlin targets, they are not all that pretty and those were shot from a bench rest/bags, not on my shoulder hand held or a stick. I have been home loading ammo for a few years, not pro at it but I can follow the cook books. My equipment is just a smattering of Lee and RCB.

[3crows]

I think I have come to decide to send the "newer" new gun. I installed a spare 3X9X40 22LR scope I had on the Air Venturi mount I purchased back aways on the "newer" rifle. Of course, I am now comparing a 2X ("older") VS a 9X ("newer") scopes so that has to affect the groups but, shot at 25 yards, 0 wind, off the Stinger bench:



In fact, I imagine much of the difference in groups is the result of a $50 2X scout mounted pistol scope and a quality 3X9X40 rifle scope, so maybe a bit unfair. But, I think I will send the one I call "newer" for Steroid mods. And just work the issues with the "older" rifle including getting to the bottom of fixing the air retention.

Interestingly the Gamo TS-22 pellets seem to group tighter with both rifles than the pointed Benjamin 14.3 gr pellets. All shot at 8 pumps but I am dumping the retained air on the "older" rifle before pumping for the next shot. Both rifles were warmed up.

Thanks for the help, appreciated.
James

[Bryan Heimann]

I don't know about the scope.  I don't think it would make that much difference the magnification .

If the 3-9 has an adjustable objective, THEN it is an unfair comparison.  AO makes the dofference at close range.

If they are both fixed objective scopes, I doubt the magnification would make that big a difference but that is just my opinion... you know what they say about that.

[3crows]

I don't know about the scope.  I don't think it would make that much difference the magnification .

If the 3-9 has an adjustable objective, THEN it is an unfair comparison.  AO makes the dofference at close range.

If they are both fixed objective scopes, I doubt the magnification would make that big a difference but that is just my opinion... you know what they say about that.

Thanks Bryan.

No, neither are AO scopes though the 3X9 is a nice scope. It is a 22LR scope so it good up decently close and very clear. The BSA 2X Edge pistol scope is pretty nice for the money, very clear also but the cross hairs are a might thick nearly covering the red dot at 20ish yards. I tried to just hold the cross hairs such that it cut the entire target in even quarters. It ain't no target scope but adequate for hunting (vermin/pests).

What Marlins you shooting? It was my 45-70 that sold me on scout mounting. After it knocked the c---p out of me a few times with a conventional scope. Since I was carrying it for bear protection while solo in Alaska back country, I needed fast target acquisition up close! I had a 1X4 Nikon African long eye relief but it would hit my eye brow (ouch) with full bore bear loads! I switched to the Burris 2X in a scout scope configuration. I have both on Warn quick mount rings which hold zero so I can switch back and forth as needed or shoot open sights. I like the Nikon for deer and hog, the Burris Scout for bear protection.

The only government a man needs, 45-70 Government!

[Bryan Heimann]

The only government a man needs, haha that is great

I only have one, the 336Y and I use the factory iron sights.  It is actually a pretty good shooter IMO for a barrel band levergun with factory semi buckhorn, 2-3 moa groups consistently at 100 yards.  I am very happy with it.  I think I got the last Remlin before they started painting the wood orange and leaving gaps in barrel to reciever fitment.  I have been looking at some of the 336W lately... no thanks!

But three touching at 150... that is good for any kind of rifle, any cartridge, assuming it is a typical result.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Couple of things here guys.
 1: you are getting pretty darn good accuracy out of your 392 especially with those pellets. So I would send the one that retains air. Let Tim know that in advance, he is more concerned about accuracy (barrel) being faulty. He can't fix it if you loose the "barrel Lottery".

 2: Take it easy on the PB conversation. While I am guilty of a bit of it myself at times, it is clearly against the rule on this AIRGUN forum. Posting pics and continued reference is a bit over the accepted line I think.
   

(3a)- Firearm and/or Airsoft Discussions are NOT PERMITTED (we ARE an airgun forum) and will be Deleted. Repeat Offences will result in Administrative actions which can include direct warnings, probationary periods, or deletion of membership account.

3: LOVE the Stinger! I have one myself. It handles all my guns well. Very adjustable, and STURDY. a couple of my Springers don't like to be held tight but that is not the Stingers fault.