Advice for a new guy with RWS Diana 350 N-Tec “classic” .22

[Toxylon]

Pull your front stock retaining screws.  They will probably have star washers under them.  Place a small flat washer between the star washer and the stock.  Star washers eat stocks.

I just took apart my 350 Mag, there were star washers under the stock retaining screws, and sure enough one of them had already started to chew into the stock, as tiny wood chips fell out. Thanks for the heads up - this place is invaluable!

[sbsyncro]

Well, I broke the new gun out of the box on Friday and pulled all the stock and action screws, placed metal washers under the star washers, and used a good coat of Vibra-Tite (blue) on all the threads.   Installed the Diana Bullseye mount, and then installed a cheapie Simmons 3-9 that I had laying around from an old .22.

Trying to cock it for the first time, I was shocked at the effort required.   I pulled the action off the stock again and loosened the pivot screw until the arm would swing more easily, but would still stay in position.   Then buttoned everything back up with more locktite, cleaned the barrel with some M-Pro 7 (non oil-based) and felt patches using a pull-through cleaner.  Oiled the pivots and trigger with some Hoppe's silicone oil, then I let it sit for two days.

Yesterday I  finally had a few hours in the afternoon to do some break-in using a target box at 20 yards.   I centered both turrets of the scope and within about 10 shots had it reasonably well zero'd (within the margin of variation with the way the gun was shooting).

I then ran about 100 or so of the pellets I had the greatest quantity of - Crosman Premier HP (14.3). and saw my technique improve and the groups start to settle down.

I find that the LOP on this gun is a bit short for me.  I'm not a big guy, but I have long forearms so I usually find myself preferring guns built for "tall people".   In fact the LOP is identical to the tiny little Beeman Falcon II which is essentially a kid's gun (I think).  Other than feeling a bit crowded while "in the cockpit", I find the overall balance and handling of the gun to be really nice.  With the ZR mount (but no scope) it weighs in at 9 lbs 3 oz so it is by no means light weight.

In terms of shooting dynamics, I was very surprised by two things when I pulled the trigger the first time.  (1) the trigger breaks with almost no effort (and very crisp) and (2) this sucker actually punches back! In fact it immediately reminded me of a 30-30 I have in the sharpness of the recoil.   I was holding it off my shoulder (thinking that I wanted to isolate the gun for accuracy) and it popped me good and now I have a nice bruise!  That was a lesson about magnum airguns!   

In terms of accuracy it is still way too early to tell, as the gun has maybe a total of 200 rounds through it (and I am still learning to shoot it well).  But here are some targets in sequence:

First 5 shot group with Crosman Premier HP (14.3) after zero'ing the scope:



An encouraging start!


While I'm still learning how to shoot this gun (and it is still breaking in),  its clear that it prefers heavier pellets.  Most encouraging early results seem to be the Crosman Premier, H & N Baracuda (21.1), and maybe the RWS Super HP (14.5).    I was surprised that the JSB Predator Polymag did as well as they did (and would probably be better with greater skill on my part) and the other surprise was the relatively lightweight JSB RS (13.4).








Can't wait to get some more range time with it.   I'm headed to Bend, OR next weekend and I will be taking it with me.  Rabbit season is year round there (unlike CA) and I might get a non-resident hunting license and see if I can get some bunnies for the stew pot while I'm there...

[Yogi]

In my experience with gas ram guns they prefer a slightly tighter hold, at least in the shoulder than coil springs guns do.

-Y

[Yogi]

I find that the LOP on this gun is a bit short for me.  I'm not a big guy, but I have long forearms so I usually find myself preferring guns built for "tall people".   In fact the LOP is identical to the tiny little Beeman Falcon II which is essentially a kid's gun (I think).  Other than feeling a bit crowded while "in the cockpit", I find the overall balance and handling of the gun to be really nice.  With the ZR mount (but no scope) it weighs in at 9 lbs 3 oz so it is by no means light weight.

Get a thicker butt pad!
https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/7397150/7720537.htm

-Y

[sbsyncro]

I find that the LOP on this gun is a bit short for me.  I'm not a big guy, but I have long forearms so I usually find myself preferring guns built for "tall people".   In fact the LOP is identical to the tiny little Beeman Falcon II which is essentially a kid's gun (I think).  Other than feeling a bit crowded while "in the cockpit", I find the overall balance and handling of the gun to be really nice.  With the ZR mount (but no scope) it weighs in at 9 lbs 3 oz so it is by no means light weight.

Get a thicker butt pad!
--link deleted because I'm not allowed to post links yet, apparently!---

Any idea if that is a direct fit, or will require sanding?  If the latter, I'd probably go with an even thicker one from a shotgun just to increase the LOP as much as possible...

[mpbby]

The strongest recoil is to the front, when the piston reaches the end of its course.

[Duckfish]

On the new old yellow.  Read second stickie in airgun talk.  "How to treat your Woden stock"

[sbsyncro]

Finally got to spend a little more time with the rifle last night (I'm visiting family near Bend, OR and managed to scrounge some cardboard, plywood and woden stakes from the barn).  Not an ideal shooting range (sitting on a plastic lawn chair) but I'm starting to get the hang of shooting this gun.  One thing I notice is that I can usually hit within a dime of my intended target on my first shot shooting from my knees while seated, but that subsequent shots tend to wander.

I think its the same problem many golfers have - thinking too much about the subsequent shots by trying to carefully duplicate everything done in the first shot...

I was also surprised to find that the gun shot about 4" high at 25 yards when zero'd  at 18 yards with Crosman 14.3 grain Premier HPs.  Didn't expect that much of an arc!  What is the best source for plotting trajectories in airguns?  I'll need to figure this out and come up with a good dope sheet before I take this gun hunting...

[Jshooter71]

I use the ChairGun app. But like a lot of guys would tell you every parameter needs to be right for it to work. And sometimes it’s still not perfect. And there are other apps and programs, but I like ChairGun best, I have it on my phone and iPad. All (4) my break barrels are zero’d at 30 meters (33 yards). My target backers are 2’x2’ and after I’ve zero’d my rifle I take a plain backer and with a thick black marker I draw a straight vertical line down the middle and near the top, with a little room, I put a 1” orange target spot. I move that target further back 5 meters or 10 meters and see where the shots hit to get a real world idea and note the drop from the spot (POA) to POI I see in my scope. This pic is not the best, it was a 40 yard zero, it’s the only example I have, but you get the idea. If you’re going to start closer and think you might get a rising POI, move the spot down on the line.

[Fate]

Johh, besides seconding ChairGun and your verification box... I have a couple comments and a question:

What gun was that shot with, pellet, etc.

Also, that is both some fine shooting, and a superbly adjusted zero!

[Jshooter71]

Thanks, Jeff. That was the Diana AMO3 Stealth .22 early on, with the H&N Field target Trophy 5.53mm 14.66 gr. It shoots a lot tighter now and I moved the zero since to 33 meters. The amazing shot for me was my little shooting partner (Ayrabella, she’s 7) took a shot at 50 meters with her 760P, quite a drop, but near center. 

[Fate]

That girl is going to be teaching you a thing or two in a little while!

Watching the young girls in my family a couple (or three generations younger I'm blown away at how much further ahead of me they are. It's humbling to say the least.

[Jshooter71]

I hope so, she’s been shooting with me since she was about 4, she has 3 rifles, is small for her size. But she loves airguns.

[Yogi]

Finally got to spend a little more time with the rifle last night (I'm visiting family near Bend, OR and managed to scrounge some cardboard, plywood and woden stakes from the barn).  Not an ideal shooting range (sitting on a plastic lawn chair) but I'm starting to get the hang of shooting this gun.  One thing I notice is that I can usually hit within a dime of my intended target on my first shot shooting from my knees while seated, but that subsequent shots tend to wander.

I think its the same problem many golfers have - thinking too much about the subsequent shots by trying to carefully duplicate everything done in the first shot...

I was also surprised to find that the gun shot about 4" high at 25 yards when zero'd  at 18 yards with Crosman 14.3 grain Premier HPs.  Didn't expect that much of an arc!  What is the best source for plotting trajectories in airguns?  I'll need to figure this out and come up with a good dope sheet before I take this gun hunting...

Could it be that your 18 yard zero is not an absolute zero but that the pellet path crosses the scope path at 18 yards.  If so, it would also cross the pellet path at around 35 yards.
4 Inches high seems extreme though.  FWIW-Absolute zero is when the scope and pellet path only cross once, at the apex of the pellets trajectory curve.  This is where a crony becomes very usefull.   Also, perhaps you should reduce the magnification on your scope to the point where you can not see earlier pellet shots.  The last shot of a good group is always the most nerve racking, Don't want to mess up my nice group...

-Y
PS see if you can get a tin of H&N Sniper Heavies.  Your gun my like them,

[dtdtdtdt]

Regarding length of pull and the stock length.  There used to be rubber boots to fit over the stock to length the pull and reduce felt recoil.  If you can find one try adding it to the stock and if necessary put some cardboard spacers inside to give even more length.  Fiddle with it until you find the length you like then do something more permanent.  By the way, you might be able to find a replacement butt place that has adjustable length.  Some air guns have them that might be cobbled onto your rifle. 

Look on Amazon for butt stock boots .  There are several that come with up to 4 inserts to adjust length - $10-30

A warning!  Many years ago when I was much younger and even dumber than I am now, I tried to put a recoil pad on an old 20gauge double using a disk and belt sander.  Really messed up the stock since I mistakenly thought I could control the process by hand.  NOT!!!  Much later, I learned the best way to do that was to take use the existing recoil pad as a template attached to the new recoil pad to sand it to size.  Much better but still easy to mess up!!!  Cheaper though if you have to buy a second one!!!

Regarding the scope and the change in point of impact over relatively short distances.  Try the ChairGun program with its default settings for your pellet.  It has many pellets already in its data base.  Then you really only have to get the distance between the centerline of the scope and the bore. You also need the velocity of the pellet.  If no crony available, go to straight shooters.com website, find your rifle and pellet.  They usually have velocity information for the various pellets assuming a new and un-modified rifle under a field called OUR TAKE.  That will get you started.

Found a review of your new rifle.  It quotes velocity of 804f/s for Crosman Premiers.  Interesting it was listed as poor accuracy.  Best accuracy listed: H^N FFT Green 10.0gr 972f/s.  Others listed excellent JSB Jumbo Exact H&N FTT 14.6gr,

A second possible cause in the 4" change in poi is altitude and temperature differences if Bend much different from your home base it might cause it.  A third one is the difference in your set-up for shooting and the bounce of the rifle on recoil.  Your hold was probably different between the sessions.  Air rifles can be notoriously hold sensitive because of the whip-lash recoil.  (I have a niece in Bend - beautiful place.  Visit the the Obsidian Deposits for an interesting lesson)

Also, most air rifle scopes have adjustable objectives so the parallax can be set to the range you are shooting.  A standard rifle scope has parallax fixed at some range (usually 100yds).  You can check to see if your parallax is off by holding the rifle firmly with the crosshairs centered on a bullseye.  Move you head up and down a little bit.  If the crosshairs appear to move on the target, your parallax isn't set right for the distance.  That means, if your head position isn't exactly the same each time the impact point will move around.  The parallax setting is much more critical in air rifles as the ranges are generally much shorter than powder guns.

If this is an issue, you might want a better with AO (adjustable objective) scope for the rifle's permanent partner.

[Fate]

Excellent points Dave. And ones I've been thinking while reading this thread but kept silent about as I'm a mere noob here.

But age and experience have benefits in most things... and I have lots of both LOL. So I wait and listen a lot. And as so often happens, someone here with both those too, also have the status to properly offer advice, and usually way better than I would have.

You, for example.

[sbsyncro]

As I have found consistently to be the case on this forum, some great ideas and advice.  Thank you!

Yes, I zero'd at sea level and 65-70º and now I'm around 3,200' and low 50's.  I hadn't even considered that as a variable, since with a powder burner at these ranges it wouldn't make much of a difference.  (Still wrapping my head around how different the dynamics are with airguns!).

The scope is a 50-yd fixed objective Simmons 22 Mag and parallax is definitely a factor - the POA moves 1-2" on target when I move my head, but I'm aware of it and trying to keep the exact cheek weld as before based on eye relief.  But shooting off my knees sitting in a chair is certainly different that shooting off a bean bag on a table.  That's contributing as well, I'm sure.

My plan is to eventually get much better glass on here with an adjustable objective so I can control the parallax issue.   I need to figure out how to shoot this thing under field conditions, which means highly variable positions, rests, etc.   I hope that is achievable!   I'm hoping that with a bit of testing as outlined by @Jshooter71 I can come up with a dope sheet and then with a mil dot scope come up with some good range adjustments for 20 to 40 yards, which I believe will be my typical distances, usually shooting off sticks from a seated position.

One thing I've always done (especially when I was working up hunting loads for muzzle loaders) is come up with an MBPR based on target species.  The tricky part here is that instead of having an 8-10 inch vital area and ranges from 50 to 150 yards, instead I'm working against a 2 to 3 inch vital area and ranges of 15 to 40 yards...   Its like everything is miniaturized.

I was trying to explain this to my wife the other day (who is a physical therapist) and used the following example:  "Imagine that all your expertise and experience in working on humans now has to be applied to a guinea pig.  On a human, rotating an arm 1º off axis is not a big deal, but do it to the guinea pig and you rip the arm off!"     

[Yogi]

Brent,
Measure your length of pull.  Bend your arm and measure from your bent trigger finger to the bend at the elbow.
Get an A/O scope, even a cheap one.
3,000 feet can make a difference.  Their are tables that show how much.

-Y

[sbsyncro]

Brent,
Measure your length of pull.  Bend your arm and measure from your bent trigger finger to the bend at the elbow.
Get an A/O scope, even a cheap one.
3,000 feet can make a difference.  Their are tables that show how much.

-Y

Thanks - I have a 15-3/4" arm (without clothing) and this rifle is about 13-1/4" so it's not ideal....  I usually have to add spacers to nearly all my guns, particularly 22's, "scout" rifles,& carbines of any sort.

AO scope is absolutely on the shopping list.  Trying to decide between Hawke Vantage IR or Vortex Crossfire - probably a 3-9 in either.    If the economy wasn't in the tank right now (and my clients not paying their bills) I'd opt for better glass...

[dtdtdtdt]

Regarding:

Head wrapping:  the Straightshooters.com (good guy by the way) site has a whole column of one page articles about air gun shooting and stuff on his front page that make a good basis to start from.  Also, consider the difference between hard ball baseball and slow pitch softball ball trajectories to help understand the difference in ballistics. 

'Thanks - I have a 15-3/4" arm (without clothing) and this rifle is about 13-1/4" so it's not ideal....  I usually have to add spacers to nearly all my guns, particularly 22's, "scout" rifles,& carbines of any sort.

AO scope is absolutely on the shopping list.  Trying to decide between Hawke Vantage IR or Vortex Crossfire - probably a 3-9 in either.    If the economy wasn't in the tank right now (and my clients not paying their bills) I'd opt for better glass...'

I put a 4x32 AO Winchester knockoff on a rws34 knockoff for my 13year old grand knot-head.  He is shooting one hole groups at 50' with it.  At the time, the scope was $25, just checked Pyramydair.  $35.  Also, Walmart sells Centerpoint scopes that are fairly cheap and air rifle qualified.  I have one that did well and now lives on a 22.  Lowest price butt pad was around $9.     NOTE the trend here.  I frequently will go cheap to learn and then move up and pass the knock-offs to the knot-head grandkids to learn own.  My first higher power air rifle was a Walther Force 1000 (maybe?).  It taught me to go to the recoiless styles in a hurry.  Both it and I did'nt like the artillery hold at all!!

Otherwise, just be a bit frustrated until your clients pay up!!  After a broken neck and partial paralysis, I was convinced that my PT thought I was the guinea pig.   

Good luck and have fun.