Getting to know a 54

[mcoulter]

I'm correcting my velocity testing with JSBs in the d54.  I had mistaken a smaller tin of JSB for 15.9s - they weren't Exacts, but were just a different style tin of Express pellets.   

Here are the true MVs for various JSBs:

JSB 18.1 / 680 fps / 18.6 fpe 
JSB 15.9 / 720 fps / 18.3 fpe
JSB 14.3 / 785 fps / 19.6 fpe

This tin of 15.9 are by far the tightest fitting pellets I have shot so far.  And I found some different targets to download and print.  This style is much better suited for the peep and circular front sight than any other targets  I have shot so far.  Here are some 5-shot groups at 25 yards.  Left target are the 14.3 jsbs and the right are 15.9 (no sight adjustments from previous session at 22y).




And three more groups with the 15.9 where I am playing with the sights:




This is where I ended up with the elevation adjustment with the 15.9 at 25 yards:

[dtdtdtdt]

I see that the groups with the aperture were smaller so I think you are on the right track.  The need is to get the aiming point just right. 

Suggestions:

Try some of the 50' NRA small bore targets or 25yd pistol targets.  The idea is to have a black bull to shoot at.  Similar to the ones you just shot!!!  Nice work!!!

If you can move your backstop or your shooting position, adjust the distance to allow you to have a small but easily discernible ring of white around the black bull.   

If you use a post, try to get a bull that at the distance are shooting that allows you to cover the lower half of the bull completely with the post making the aiming point look like a round-topped post.  That gets your windage position centered well and the elevation consistently at the same position.  The second approach with a post is to make it look like an arial letter i with the bottom of the dot just touching the post.

If you have a printer that allows you to enlarge the print, I suggest starting with a black 1" dot in the center of the page and increase it 25, 50, 75, 100, 200% and try looking at them on your target frame to get the concentric rings of black - white - black with a white area you can easily see. 

If the guy had different apertures, try them too.  A later addition would be an adjustable iris in the rear sight.  It is amazing how much adjusting that sharpens your vision. 

Have fun!!

[HectorMedina]

Matt;

There are apertures as small as 2.8 mm's, so it's a question of finding the right "hole size" .

;-)

The original set of 4 had a 3.0, a post and a barleycorn.

HTH




HM

[mcoulter]

Dave & Hector, thank you very much for your input on this.  It has been a really enjoyable experience "getting to know" both this rifle and method of sighting :-)

[Yogi]

Matt,

Just to add my 2 cents since you are pretty new to using peeps, FOCUS on the front sight!  The rear and the front will line up.  The target will be a little fuzzy...HTH.
Yes, find the front insert that will have a little white showing around the black bull.

-Y

PS see if this link helps?
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/05/peep-sights-part-4/

[Fate]

Matt, now that you have a handle on the peeps and are doing so well, may I offer some advice on the peripherals.

As you may know, from past experience or others, when you get to the finer details of serious target shooting there's one thing all of us have to deal with... our eyes. Specifically, optimizing their use. Whether shooting with a scope, peeps, or open sights we only use one eye to "see" the target, or more specifically as Yogi said, our front sight... BUT it is important to keep BOTH eyes open. This is not easy. It's not what we usually do and doing it while focusing on putting a hole in our target is just one more thing to remember.

To add to what you may already know about that, below are some ideas to think about. Personally, I've used make-shift eye covers when I was competing in pistol and silhouette, and often at the range I merely had my flip-up scope cover turned sideways to block my off-eye. Any way you use is better than either shutting your off-eye or squinting. It makes a difference in your results.

Since I cannot post links yet as I'm a newbie, just search "off-eye shooting," "off-eye cover for shooting," and variations thereof.

FWIW, your adventure with peeps was provided to a good shooting buddy who I have long tried to get to try them. He's younger and has stubbornly stuck to what he knows, and knows well btw. He is going to get them now for one of his 22s. My words apparently weren't enough, but your story did the trick.

The peeps that came on my Blue Streak make it my goto when I'm hunting pests or small game. They're faster than a scope and have have none of the many factors that a scope brings that must be accounted for in an instinctual shooting situation. Just acquire the target and fire. Done.

[mcoulter]

Yogi & Jeff, thanks for your suggestions.  I did a bit of shooting today and found the lighting (late afternoon) quite challenging.  The sun was kind of low and to my back.  The sun was incredibly bright on the target and I was shooting from inside my shed where it was quite dark.  This pic does not do the lighting justice, but even with a decent sized target and a smaller aperture (#3 vs. #4 which i had been using), I had a heck of time getting a good sight picture.



I'm probably going to wrap up this thread later this week with some windage testing at different distances.  I can't quite get that right...  I'm either too little or too much in my adjustments!

[dtdtdtdt]

Finally found a picture for a 10m sight picture using the rear peep and front aperture.

Big outer ring is the rear peep sight, bottom bar represents the gun barrel and the bottom of the front aperture sight, next ring is the outside of the front aperture sight, next ring with side bars is the aperture itself.  Center black spot is the bullseye. 


When shooting the two bars that hold the aperture ring should be level to the background to minimize canting. 

Your brain will help you a lot here.  It tries to make you keep the rings concentric and even.

[HectorMedina]

Matt;

You can also try the Micro-Sight with an Iris aperture.

It used to be sold by Brownell's Sinclair website, but I cannot find it anymore.

Nowadays, unless we can find some NOS, you would have to buy from the Europeans specialized in Match sighting equipment.
We've discussed this before so if you search, I am sure you will find some interesting info.

Keep well, healthy and sane.





HM

[mcoulter]

Dave, thanks for sight picture graphic.  That helps!  And thanks for the sight recommendation Hector.  Bright and sunny days are rare in CNY so I can probably make the existing peep work 95% of the time ;-)

I did a quick box test starting with a shot on the bullseye and then doing a 50-click box up and to the right.  Then I did the same thing with 50-clicks down and to the left.



It was interesting how the wind affected the size of the box.  It was blowing from behind me from my right to the left.  It looks like 50-clicks at 25 yards is roughly 2 inches.  I think my notes written on the target over estimate the POI movement.  Without wind it would likely be more like 1.5 to 2 inches per 50-clicks.  I shot a few earlier targets and found 20 clicks is roughly one inch at 25 yards.

[dwalk]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your suggestions!  I bought the .05 key as part of a combo set which are all together so I'll be (somewhat!) less likely to lose it this way!  That's a pretty interesting concoction of cleaners you use.  I could probably use a proper parts washer, but probably more out of laziness than anything else, I find myself grabbing a can of brake or carb cleaner to get stuff like this cleaned up...  And thanks for the liquid bearings suggestion that looks like a good product for this use :-)

The weather on Saturday was spectacular and I got some good shooting / testing in with the peep.   I'm really enjoying it and it looks pretty good on the rifle  ;-)




 





I wanted to do some shooting at various distances and found that a 30-ish yard zero worked pretty well.  I was able to use 2-inch splatter stickers at that distance pretty well.  I found the gun to be dead on at 13 yards, maybe an inch high at 20 yards, good at 30 and then it took 50 clicks to zero again at 50 yards. 

So this is what worked out to be my "normal" elevation for 30 yards:



And this at 50 yards:



Here are a few more sample targets.  These seem to be pretty typical groupings for 30 yards off a rest with the peep.  I found the group on the right to be particularly satisfying  :-)




And here are my 50 yard tests.  You can see the drop on the left from my 30 yard zero, 30-clicks of elevation change (left) and then 50 clicks of elevation change (right):



I then returned the target to 30-yards.  The top-left 3 shots are keeping my 50 yard adjustment and then adjusting back to my 30-yard zero by undoing the 50-clicks of elevation change.   On the right-side I took at guess at what my near zero is and nailed it.  Those are 2 shots (edit) at 13 yards and then one at 20 yards to see how high it might be:




Lastly, I did some chrony testing.  I recorded the muzzle velocity and velocity at 30 yards with jsb 18s (chairgun bc = .0357)




All-in-all a very fun Saturday morning!

where did you get the gibb set screw on the Williams rear peep?

[mcoulter]

Hi Don, I bought the gun used so unfortunately I can't give any details regarding the screw in the sight.  Sorry!  :-(

[dtdtdtdt]

The "Gibbs" screw you mention may well have come off another sight.  Most target sights are designed to easily be removed for storage and replacement by a scope during competition.

The one that is there looks a lot like one off the Redfield International Rear sight that I have. 

You might be able to find one at a gun show junk parts table someday.  It is possible that Numrich, Brownells, or Champion Choice might have parts....

I found one on eBay that would probably work with the Williams

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Redfield-International-and-Palma-attaching-screw/353008517019?hash=item5230f27f9b:g:uv8AAOSwwZpafYUm

Good luck.

[ssbn617]

This is it. I believe it came from Brownells, but it might be Midway.
Mitch

[mcoulter]

I had significant recoil going through the stock of my D56 until I removed the metal bracket of the cocking fin that the cocking lever pushes against at the end of the stroke which pushes the gun's action forward. If you remove that bracket, you just have to remember to push the action forward before you shoot. I do that when I also push the trigger safety off. That cocking fin gets pinched between the cocking lever and the gun's action. Its not a fault in the design but rather an engineering trade off.

Mossonarock, can you confirm if this is the bracket you removed?




Also, can anyone explain what (if anything) this screw hole is used for that's in between the front of the trigger mechanism and the sled?



Thanks!

[truck driver]

I do believe all the side lever Diana rifles share the same action tube so if it were used on a 48 it would be the rear action mounting screw for the stock.
Diana just welds the sled brackets on a generic action tube that's used for all the side levers.

[Mossonarock]

mcoulter,
That's exactly the bracket I removed. I believe I've read elsewhere from Hector that removing it is something sometimes done to set up one of these guns for field target. So, removing it isn't unheard of.
The bracket also serves as the washer under the rubber washer under the slide. So, I replaced it with a regular metal washer. That way I still have the metal:rubber:metal washer stack under the slide.
I hope that makes sense. If you remove the bracket, just be sure to remember to manually slide the action forward into battery after loading/before aiming. Sometimes I forget and the recoil reminds me.

That looks like a lot of grease you have all around in there. I'd at least remove the grease from the slides/rails. I find that grease on the slides and rails actually interferes with the sliding action. I don't use anything for lube. I figure the combination of hard steel rails and soft brass slides makes it so that lube just isn't necessary.

[HectorMedina]

mcoulter,
That's exactly the bracket I removed. I believe I've read elsewhere from Hector that removing it is something sometimes done to set up one of these guns for field target. So, removing it isn't unheard of.
The bracket also serves as the washer under the rubber washer under the slide. So, I replaced it with a regular metal washer. That way I still have the metal:rubber:metal washer stack under the slide.
I hope that makes sense. If you remove the bracket, just be sure to remember to manually slide the action forward into battery after loading/before aiming. Sometimes I forget and the recoil reminds me.

That looks like a lot of grease you have all around in there. I'd at least remove the grease from the slides/rails. I find that grease on the slides and rails actually interferes with the sliding action. I don't use anything for lube. I figure the combination of hard steel rails and soft brass slides makes it so that lube just isn't necessary.

MoaR.- Yes, the short stroked D54's cannot use the "fin" that moves the action forward. And the movement is more consistent when done by hand as a separate action from the cocking stroke.
MattC.-The bronze that is used in the sled units is a special casting. It permanently lubed. IF you absolutely NEED to lube something (out of mental necessity), then use "Liquid Bearings" and use ONE drop in each pin, then move the slides around and then clean.
Do this once a year.

HTH





HM

[mcoulter]

Thank you for your input on this Hector 

The pics in that last post both old and new.  The amount of grease is not quite as bad as shown in the pics - but next time I have it out, I'll clean up the remaining amount.  This has been an interesting gun to figure out.  I think my latest realization is that a previous owner’s use of a bipod that was mounted by inserting a tab under the front mounting screw has altered the plastic cap and maybe the wood where it mates the cap. I ended up putting one washer in the recessed area under that cap and that has helped quite a bit.  I can now snug down the front screw to 25 in/lbs or so without too much binding.  This would have been IMPOSSIBLE to do without the washer there.  The sled would not have moved at all at that tightness.

Can anyone with a 54 let me know how the bottom of plastic front mounting is molded?  Is it perfectly flat?  Or is it contoured to sit and be oriented in a specific  way when tightened against the stock?

Thanks!

[HectorMedina]

Thank you for your input on this Hector 

The pics in that last post both old and new.  The amount of grease is not quite as bad as shown in the pics - but next time I have it out, I'll clean up the remaining amount.  This has been an interesting gun to figure out.  I think my latest realization is that a previous owner’s use of a bipod that was mounted by inserting a tab under the front mounting screw has altered the plastic cap and maybe the wood where it mates the cap. I ended up putting one washer in the recessed area under that cap and that has helped quite a bit.  I can now snug down the front screw to 25 in/lbs or so without too much binding.  This would have been IMPOSSIBLE to do without the washer there.  The sled would not have moved at all at that tightness.

Can anyone with a 54 let me know how the bottom of plastic front mounting is molded?  Is it perfectly flat?  Or is it contoured to sit and be oriented in a specific  way when tightened against the stock?

Thanks!

Matt;

I am sure you can get better answers if you are more concrete about your questions.

There are "TWO plastic caps" at both ends of the action: One is a rivetted cover for the space that needs to be created for the sliding of the action. This one is at the REAR.
There is a "filler block" that acts as bushing between the mechanisms tube, the barrel, the shim, the sleeve and that covers the space between the bare barrel and the barrel receiving block inset into the mechanisms tube. In the 54 (as opposed to a 48), that barrel sleeve is "winged" because those wings also prevent foliage debris of falling into the action in whatever position the action is in (forward-battery/ Rear-Fired).
Yes there is a specific orientation to the barrel sleeve, AND the shim, AND the block.
The wings, MAY have been mistreated, and have "closed" on themselves, in this case, you will need to VERY judiciously, open them till they fit perfectly the 4 parts in question.

Other than those two caps I cannot think of anything that even remotely refers or reminds me of what you are trying to describe.

Perhaps, the most orderly way is to use a DIAGRAM: https://www.diana-airguns.de/fileadmin/Editoren/PDF-Downloads/Download-Techische-Info/Ersatzteillisten-Luftgewehre/Mod_54_Airking_T06.pdf

And from there, talk about POSITIONS (the numbers of the parts in the diagram), and or Part numbers (the list that follows the diagram).

So, are you talking about parts in position 11 OR in position 57?

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM