Quote from: KnifeMaker on June 06, 2020, 08:16:37 PMYep, my prototype has such a valve. i tried everything I could think of to stop the leak. Finally gave up. I have the newer valve now and it is very much better! Knife/MikeNot a happy camper reading this.Keith, both of the springs that are inside(two different valves) broke one coil off the end. This is when the leaking started with the second new style valve. By simply fitting a short spring, (Lower power maximus spring about 5 coils long against the poppet head and seated on the front of the balance chamber has stopped this entirely. I am running it with a solid poppet stem, so no balance chamber doing anything at this point. Next I will make a better poppet stem from s-7 tool steel and try[size=78%] the balance chamber again. [/size]Travis stated that the stem should not bread, as they are tool steel. Well, As some of you know, I have studied metallurgy for many years. I tested the stems that were breaking where the thru hole crosses the stem to allow the air to enter the balance chambers. They are either 303 or 316 as far as I can tell, which is a non heat treatable low grade of stainless. Think Pot and Pan material here. Nothing more than the stainless equivalent of cold rolled low carbon steel. Very week!S-7 is a high grade shock resisting steel. I have 0-1 here, but it likes to warp in small sections when it hits the quenching oil. So far I have made one stem from it but not heat treated. Even in its non heat treated condition, it is far superior to low carbon stainless. And this is certainly not in its prime condition. Heat treat and triple temper and it should last a life time+!Mike
Yep, my prototype has such a valve. i tried everything I could think of to stop the leak. Finally gave up. I have the newer valve now and it is very much better! Knife/Mike
I don't know if the mechanics are different in a meaningful way but I've used standard threadlocker to seal HPA parts a number of times and those interfaces have all proven reliable over time. That includes both straight threads and tapered threads, and slip-fit parts.
Quote from: triggertreat on June 07, 2020, 03:23:39 PMQuote from: KnifeMaker on June 06, 2020, 08:16:37 PMYep, my prototype has such a valve. i tried everything I could think of to stop the leak. Finally gave up. I have the newer valve now and it is very much better! Knife/MikeNot a happy camper reading this.Keith, both of the springs that are inside(two different valves) broke one coil off the end. This is when the leaking started with the second new style valve. By simply fitting a short spring, (Lower power maximus spring about 5 coils long against the poppet head and seated on the front of the balance chamber has stopped this entirely. I am running it with a solid poppet stem, so no balance chamber doing anything at this point. Next I will make a better poppet stem from s-7 tool steel and try the balance chamber again. Travis stated that the stem should not bread, as they are tool steel. Well, As some of you know, I have studied metallurgy for many years. I tested the stems that were breaking where the thru hole crosses the stem to allow the air to enter the balance chambers. They are either 303 or 316 as far as I can tell, which is a non heat treatable low grade of stainless. Think Pot and Pan material here. Nothing more than the stainless equivalent of cold rolled low carbon steel. Very week!S-7 is a high grade shock resisting steel. I have 0-1 here, but it likes to warp in small sections when it hits the quenching oil. So far I have made one stem from it but not heat treated. Even in its non heat treated condition, it is far superior to low carbon stainless. And this is certainly not in its prime condition. Heat treat and triple temper and it should last a life time+!Mike
Quote from: KnifeMaker on June 06, 2020, 08:16:37 PMYep, my prototype has such a valve. i tried everything I could think of to stop the leak. Finally gave up. I have the newer valve now and it is very much better! Knife/MikeNot a happy camper reading this.Keith, both of the springs that are inside(two different valves) broke one coil off the end. This is when the leaking started with the second new style valve. By simply fitting a short spring, (Lower power maximus spring about 5 coils long against the poppet head and seated on the front of the balance chamber has stopped this entirely. I am running it with a solid poppet stem, so no balance chamber doing anything at this point. Next I will make a better poppet stem from s-7 tool steel and try the balance chamber again. Travis stated that the stem should not bread, as they are tool steel. Well, As some of you know, I have studied metallurgy for many years. I tested the stems that were breaking where the thru hole crosses the stem to allow the air to enter the balance chambers. They are either 303 or 316 as far as I can tell, which is a non heat treatable low grade of stainless. Think Pot and Pan material here. Nothing more than the stainless equivalent of cold rolled low carbon steel. Very week!S-7 is a high grade shock resisting steel. I have 0-1 here, but it likes to warp in small sections when it hits the quenching oil. So far I have made one stem from it but not heat treated. Even in its non heat treated condition, it is far superior to low carbon stainless. And this is certainly not in its prime condition. Heat treat and triple temper and it should last a life time+!Mike
Thanks Mike! I'll revisit my valve at some point and can try that. Although I should really give up on it, I don't like giving up...
QuoteThanks Mike! I'll revisit my valve at some point and can try that. Although I should really give up on it, I don't like giving up...If you're really up for the task, try Motorheads v2 of the balanced valve. I think you will be quite pleased by including your own craftsmanship into the valve. Could be a fun project. I agree with Knife on the stem, valve stems should be made from hardened, heat treated alloys. I have found great success with HSS drill bit blanks for poppet stems. I am sure there are even better alternatives but they work for me without any additional treatments.
Quote from: PikeP on June 07, 2020, 07:12:33 PMQuoteThanks Mike! I'll revisit my valve at some point and can try that. Although I should really give up on it, I don't like giving up...If you're really up for the task, try Motorheads v2 of the balanced valve. I think you will be quite pleased by including your own craftsmanship into the valve. Could be a fun project. I agree with Knife on the stem, valve stems should be made from hardened, heat treated alloys. I have found great success with HSS drill bit blanks for poppet stems. I am sure there are even better alternatives but they work for me without any additional treatments.Yep Matt, hss would have been the easy way., Sadly, not one of mine out of a few hundred have a long enough shaft. GRRRRR!!I have replaced the poppet stems in most of my other ag's with hss drill bit shafts. Cheap, and already properly heat treated. No where as tough as S-7, but still darned stout!I need to post pic's of what I have done with the valve and how the spring is anchored. I redesigned some of the slugs I have been shooting in it, and 5 shot groups at 80 yards are hovering from .162 to .248 ctc for the biggest. Deadly accurate. Two Squirrels and three pest birds today at 50 to 80 yd's. Love the accuracy of the little Mini Raptor.
Quote from: KnifeMaker on June 07, 2020, 04:27:44 PMQuote from: triggertreat on June 07, 2020, 03:23:39 PMQuote from: KnifeMaker on June 06, 2020, 08:16:37 PMYep, my prototype has such a valve. i tried everything I could think of to stop the leak. Finally gave up. I have the newer valve now and it is very much better! Knife/MikeNot a happy camper reading this.Keith, both of the springs that are inside(two different valves) broke one coil off the end. This is when the leaking started with the second new style valve. By simply fitting a short spring, (Lower power maximus spring about 5 coils long against the poppet head and seated on the front of the balance chamber has stopped this entirely. I am running it with a solid poppet stem, so no balance chamber doing anything at this point. Next I will make a better poppet stem from s-7 tool steel and try the balance chamber again. Travis stated that the stem should not bread, as they are tool steel. Well, As some of you know, I have studied metallurgy for many years. I tested the stems that were breaking where the thru hole crosses the stem to allow the air to enter the balance chambers. They are either 303 or 316 as far as I can tell, which is a non heat treatable low grade of stainless. Think Pot and Pan material here. Nothing more than the stainless equivalent of cold rolled low carbon steel. Very week!S-7 is a high grade shock resisting steel. I have 0-1 here, but it likes to warp in small sections when it hits the quenching oil. So far I have made one stem from it but not heat treated. Even in its non heat treated condition, it is far superior to low carbon stainless. And this is certainly not in its prime condition. Heat treat and triple temper and it should last a life time+!MikeQuoteThanks Mike! I'll revisit my valve at some point and can try that. Although I should really give up on it, I don't like giving up...I just ordered some 10mm O-rings
Quote from: triggertreat on June 07, 2020, 03:23:39 PMQuote from: KnifeMaker on June 06, 2020, 08:16:37 PMYep, my prototype has such a valve. i tried everything I could think of to stop the leak. Finally gave up. I have the newer valve now and it is very much better! Knife/MikeNot a happy camper reading this.Keith, both of the springs that are inside(two different valves) broke one coil off the end. This is when the leaking started with the second new style valve. By simply fitting a short spring, (Lower power maximus spring about 5 coils long against the poppet head and seated on the front of the balance chamber has stopped this entirely. I am running it with a solid poppet stem, so no balance chamber doing anything at this point. Next I will make a better poppet stem from s-7 tool steel and try the balance chamber again. Travis stated that the stem should not bread, as they are tool steel. Well, As some of you know, I have studied metallurgy for many years. I tested the stems that were breaking where the thru hole crosses the stem to allow the air to enter the balance chambers. They are either 303 or 316 as far as I can tell, which is a non heat treatable low grade of stainless. Think Pot and Pan material here. Nothing more than the stainless equivalent of cold rolled low carbon steel. Very week!S-7 is a high grade shock resisting steel. I have 0-1 here, but it likes to warp in small sections when it hits the quenching oil. So far I have made one stem from it but not heat treated. Even in its non heat treated condition, it is far superior to low carbon stainless. And this is certainly not in its prime condition. Heat treat and triple temper and it should last a life time+!MikeQuoteThanks Mike! I'll revisit my valve at some point and can try that. Although I should really give up on it, I don't like giving up...I just ordered some 10mm O-rings
Thanks Mike! I'll revisit my valve at some point and can try that. Although I should really give up on it, I don't like giving up...I just ordered some 10mm O-rings
It has been a long time since I had any faith in the gun from day to day. Would it leak, can I shoot it? Mike
Bill, sorry I got sidetracked. Did you want pic's of the spring on the outside or pic's of targets. LOLMike
Quote from: KnifeMaker on June 18, 2020, 05:50:20 AMBill, sorry I got sidetracked. Did you want pic's of the spring on the outside or pic's of targets. LOLMikeMike I wanted to see pictures of your spring fix, but love seeing targets and how guns are shooting also LOL
Guys, I apologize as I have not tried the dual springs with the balanced valve yet. it is just shooting so well that I don't want to mess with it. it has been a long time since I had any faith in the gun from day to day. Would it leak, can I shoot it? Kinda hard to mess with it now. Scott, with the inverted balance system, and no hole thru the stem, how is the air getting into the chamber? I'm wanting to work one up and try it out. Mike
Thank you for the reply Scott. knowing now that you are using the bored. (drilled) stem clears up the matter for me. I am switching my stem material to s-7 tool high impact steel shortly. I would like to make this poppet arrangement, however, turning everything vertically on the lathe sure makes what I am doing very hard to see and be precise. I have to find room and eventually put in a small lathe. As the much anticipated move to JSAR was stymied, are you back in the tuning business full time now?Mike
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