NSA .17 slugs

[Ribbonstone]

So it shoot poorly before the mods, still shoots poorly.... it's not the mods.   Swap to something heavier(16gr. pellets or slugs) might help,but sounds like there is some other problem going on.

[KnifeMaker]

I still have a .172 TJ's slug barrel here squirreled away. Only need to get a mold. 

[Motorhead]

I still have a .172 TJ's slug barrel here squirreled away. Only need to get a mold. 

Sitting on a 1-22 TJ's 4 groove .172" barrel myself and no idea where to get affordable slugs for it being i don't cast.
Now if the .177 NSA slugs when they come out could be sized down ... that die i could manufacture and get there affordably.

[KnifeMaker]

Scott, I see no reason the NOE die would not work.


Once the interior of the die is mirror polished, the 005 difference will feel like nothing at all.  It will run thru the die smooth as silk!   

[Motorhead]

Scott, I see no reason the NOE die would not work.


Once the interior of the die is mirror polished, the 005 difference will feel like nothing at all.  It will run thru the die smooth as silk!   

Michael,

When I got this barrel I did bush a few NSA .177's threw it.  When measuring them ( the slug ) after the fact the 4 groove barrel fortunately leaves 180* land flats so there easily measured at @ .171" with the groove measuring at @ .177"

Now this is odd being Nick at NSA says DO NOT shoot his .177" slugs in .172" barrels ..... by my measuring and viewing the rifling witness marks on slug the fit appears to be perfect and not showing any signs of the barrels groove actually dragging on the O.D. of slug which is a NSA .177 size slug. Just nice even 4 land marks with no groove scrape / drag showing

Odd that the NSA

[KnifeMaker]

Scott, this is very encouraging! I don't have any .177 slugs here, so I guess I'll have to get another mold before winter. LOL!


Thank you so much for the valuable information! Sure seem like high lands for such a small cal.


Mike

[KnifeMaker]

I just checked the NOE specs. .172. this could be an issue. I need to call Cedric to see what the slugs actually cast to. Often they are larger than listed. I just took a tree Squirrel at 60 yd a few minutes ago. Guess Dumplings are in order tomorrow night. Yum!


Used the cg wrapped liner .221 barrel in the Mini Raptor. 32.4 slugs at 1006 average. Really stepping out there. Turned down a little for shot count. 


This combo is coming alone. About 3/4" at 50, but 1/2 at 80. Really shows the going to sleep syndrome. Thinking fo micro porting the barrel to see if it can indeed alleviate this.


Mike

[Motorhead]

Micro port as in "Magna port" or something else ?

[tdmag4life]

I shoot them out of a modded BNM Disco - I've taken rabbits out to 72 yards.

bucks wind better than pellets (not quite as well as a .22cal) - Maybe a 1" gun out to 50 yards but I consider dime size 30 yards and in.

Mew life to my .177 cal Disco

[KnifeMaker]

Scott, Yes, similar to magna porting. I have ported a LOT of handguns over the years for people, and it works wonders. ( If you can stand the louder report and muzzle pressure wave. Some can't)


I'm thinking the not going to sleep until down range a bit may be caused by the air blast not being completely even on the base of the bullet.


One Swaggers bullets I am testing have a very thin radius of lead proud of the base. (Thin walled cup) and am having issues with it. I removed the lip and they became instantly more accurate. Relieving the muzzle pressure a bit may very well help in some slugs in some cases Particularly at higher pressures.


Reading Shorty's results caused me to think about his a bit more.


Just one more thing to test. 


Mike

[Motorhead]

Scott, Yes, similar to magna porting. I have ported a LOT of handguns over the years for people, and it works wonders. ( If you can stand the louder report and muzzle pressure wave. Some can't)


I'm thinking the not going to sleep until down range a bit may be caused by the air blast not being completely even on the base of the bullet.


One Swaggers bullets I am testing have a very thin radius of lead proud of the base. (Thin walled cup) and am having issues with it. I removed the lip and they became instantly more accurate. Relieving the muzzle pressure a bit may very well help in some slugs in some cases Particularly at higher pressures.


Reading Shorty's results caused me to think about his a bit more.


Just one more thing to test. 


Mike

done via EDM machine or machined mechanically ?

[KnifeMaker]

Scott, Yes, similar to magna porting. I have ported a LOT of handguns over the years for people, and it works wonders. ( If you can stand the louder report and muzzle pressure wave. Some can't)


I'm thinking the not going to sleep until down range a bit may be caused by the air blast not being completely even on the base of the bullet.


One Swaggers bullets I am testing have a very thin radius of lead proud of the base. (Thin walled cup) and am having issues with it. I removed the lip and they became instantly more accurate. Relieving the muzzle pressure a bit may very well help in some slugs in some cases Particularly at higher pressures.


Reading Shorty's results caused me to think about his a bit more.


Just one more thing to test. 


Mike

done via EDM machine or machined mechanically ?

Scott, for years I lived in Huntsville ALA. Next to The huge Research and manufacturing Complex's that built the Space Shuttles. Many huge companies and I sold and bought machine tools for a industrial supply Company in ALA.


I could get things done that would blow your mind. Tech still not avaliable to the public.  I moved to an area next to Ft. Hood. the largest military base in the  U.S. I though it would be similar. Nope, More a third world country mentality. Heck, there is not so much as one real machine shop anywhere around here. Not one. EDM? ED What? Yep,  it is that far behind the curve here.   


I got to play with EDM's when they were in their infancy. True leading tech. Now, it is just me and my small 1200 lb Knee mill. GRRRR!


But I can do a few things with it. LOL!  Porting a bbl is pretty simple. Particularly if using carbide and milling at an angel which is top toward the receiver, and  actual entrance to the bore toward the muzzle. It is very controllable if using good carbide an High RPM, there is virtual no burr and what is produced is quickly lapped out.


I would prefer very small holes radially that the longer Magna-Port (Registered trade mark)  type. 1 to 1/1/2MM or no more than 2.5 mm should be smooth as glass.


With the ports so angled there would not be the issue of the lead being shaved as a straight 90 deg. cut would produce. this of course for slugs. I still feel it could damage pellet skirts as they are being continually forced to the bore id. And easily damaged. Only testing however would determine this for sure.


Mike

[Ribbonstone]

MAybe we wandered off point....do not doubt that slugs and .177 can work.

The orginal post seemed more about curing an accuracy problem for a factory rifle that shot poorly  un-modded, still shoots poorly modded, and has been tried at various speeds with pellets.

Is swapping to slugs going to fix that?

[KnifeMaker]

Scott, I see no reason the NOE die would not work.


Once the interior of the die is mirror polished, the 005 difference will feel like nothing at all.  It will run thru the die smooth as silk!   

Michael,

When I got this barrel I did bush a few NSA .177's threw it.  When measuring them ( the slug ) after the fact the 4 groove barrel fortunately leaves 180* land flats so there easily measured at @ .171" with the groove measuring at @ .177"

Now this is odd being Nick at NSA says DO NOT shoot his .177" slugs in .172" barrels ..... by my measuring and viewing the rifling witness marks on slug the fit appears to be perfect and not showing any signs of the barrels groove actually dragging on the O.D. of slug which is a NSA .177 size slug. Just nice even 4 land marks with no groove scrape / drag showing

Odd that the NSA

Nick in no doubt talking about the actual .172 slug barrel (HMR). Not the barrel you have. 172 barrel is a 1-9 twist. Your is much different with a much slower twist and bore spec.


Mike


Knife

[Motorhead]

In the past day ... measuring / researching etc  Have come to the conclusion the TJ's air gun barrels ARE NOT CLASSIFIED as .172" barrels even tho there land diameter at is that spec.  Groove is .177 making them a .177 caliber AIR GUN PELLET & SLUG in specifications barrel. Along with being a standout in being 4 groove and offered in 18-1 and 22-1 twist specs.

Actual 172"  barrels being the GROOVE diameter and the LAND specs smaller yet by @.005" ( .167"ish ) these for the .17 Rem, HMR ect powder burners using jacketed bullets.

GREAT NEWS !  Now to wait as stated earlier for NSA to get em made on the high speed equipment to become affordable !!

[Whatsquirrel]

Ok just had a minute to sit down!! My wife has me building rabbit cages or should say mansions!!

I’m gonna try & tear the barrel out of this thing & push a pellet through it to see what it feels like. If it feels ok I though about cutting the choke out of it & Getting some slugs to shoot out of it. What can it hurt?? 😎😎 That’ll just give me an excuse to definitely get new barrel. Or maybe even get a .25 top end for it.

[nielsenammo]

We are working on the 177 production.  Our HP pins right now are a problem in the manufacturing process - breaking.  I machined new pins and had them heat treated.  I dropped them off at the grinder and will be a few weeks until I get them back still.  These pins are held to +- .0001 so I can not hold that on my machine and the bottle neck is the grinder.

Once we get them back we will restart our testing.  Results so far looking pretty good, like any ammo, some guns love em and some don't.  Should restart testing mid April but the shutdowns my effect that well.

[Ribbonstone]

Whatsquirrel (we've interacted before on line):

What I've been trying to ask in a delicate way may have to be stated in an indelicate way.

If it shot poorly  before mods.
Shoots poorly after mods.
Shoots poorly after trying pellets at various velocities.

It could be (odds are pretty poor) that slugs could make it better...but the odd's on choice is that it won't..becasue something else is going on.

As for a new barrel.new mnods, have no doubt that slugs and .172-.177 (depending on the barrel) can match up and shoot well.

But it hasn't cured anything that was wrong in the first place other than a "wonky" barrel in the first place.

[Whatsquirrel]

Whatsquirrel (we've interacted before on line):

What I've been trying to ask in a delicate way may have to be stated in an indelicate way.

If it shot poorly  before mods.
Shoots poorly after mods.
Shoots poorly after trying pellets at various velocities.

It could be (odds are pretty poor) that slugs could make it better...but the odd's on choice is that it won't..becasue something else is going on.

As for a new barrel.new mnods, have no doubt that slugs and .172-.177 (depending on the barrel) can match up and shoot well.

But it hasn't cured anything that was wrong in the first place other than a "wonky" barrel in the first place.

It takes a lot to for me to get upset. So nothing to me has to be done in a delicate way. 😎😎
If I understand what your saying is that more than likely it’s the barrel.

I’ve shot many different pellets & pellet weights. To no avail.
I’ve shot them at many different velocities. To no avail.
I’ve shot them with the shroud removed & at different velocities. To no avail.

So the only thing I could think of was the barrel. I think I’ll just get a barrel & see what happens. 

[KnifeMaker]

In the past day ... measuring / researching etc  Have come to the conclusion the TJ's air gun barrels ARE NOT CLASSIFIED as .172" barrels even tho there land diameter at is that spec.  Groove is .177 making them a .177 caliber AIR GUN PELLET & SLUG in specifications barrel. Along with being a standout in being 4 groove and offered in 18-1 and 22-1 twist specs.

Actual 172"  barrels being the GROOVE diameter and the LAND specs smaller yet by @.005" ( .167"ish ) these for the .17 Rem, HMR ect powder burners using jacketed bullets.

GREAT NEWS !  Now to wait as stated earlier for NSA to get em made on the high speed equipment to become affordable !!

I don't know how the idea came from that the AG barrel are .172. The pellet barrels are .177.


TJ's also makes PB barrels, and they are the .172 and what I have here. Same with Cedric's HM-Air. Not a pellet .177 barrel. Two completely purposed barrels. As far as I know, this is the way it has been. Before and now.




Never, Ever have I seen or heard of TJ's pellet barrels being classified at any time as .172. Where is this coming from?  Seems there is a HUGE misunderstanding here. One I tried to explain to Travis with the .22 and .250 barrels. it took him a while to wrap his head around it. He said he needed to call Nick to confirm what I told him.  HUH?  WTH???


Cedric Dyotat100, Roach
Creek, myself,  Rifle50, and more recently Matt Dubber shoot more bullets than Nick ever dreamed of. For years before ANY ONE ever dreamed of swagging for our AIR Guns, much less marketing slugs.  Many, many thousands. I shoot at least 200-500 a day and test different combos in an ongoing quest. Tons of research and experience between us.


And we don't operate on mathematical theory. We actually TEST! Paper, vermin. short range, Long Range, with years of experienced doing so.
Our slugs, their slugs. Other casters slugs, other swaggers slugs.


Where do people think the input comes from that Swaggers use to refine their products? From people like us!


It stuck in my craw more than a little bit!


And I gotta tell ya. I don't give a dayum what the twist calculator says, or a mathematician says. The proof is down range on target. . Not on  pen an paper.  You have to actually visually witness the flight and its characteristics, not just push a few buttons an a calculator and call it Fact.
It is place to start, and ONLY a place to start. That is ALL!

Knife