The .20 H.S.

[dtdtdtdt]

ssbn617:  sorry to hear about your loss.  I hope things recover and allow you to rejoin the ranks of the air gun addicts. 

Good luck and don't let the covid bug bite!!!

[ssbn617]

Never left, but could not carry the inventory. Nothing changed, just leaner.
Mitch

[HectorMedina]

UUuuuffff!

Take a day off and there is a deluge in posts, LOL!

Just kidding, happy for the opportunity to be of service.

I'll try to address the points, not so much the posts.

False feedback by the target.- This is why, 20 years ago I designed the Quadrant Spinner:



As you can see, whether you hit the bullseye, or you hit the side-leaves, you get immediate feedback that is USEFUL information.

Problem is that to make them PROPERLY, you need to have precision work. Current offerings are so loosely made that, small caliber pellets can "slip through the cracks" and give you NO feedback at all. Which is, to be honest, quite annoying. BUT, that is what happens when you cheapen a product.

Perhaps I should get another run made? What say ye?

Temperature and performance.-.- Piston airguns work at such high temperatures and pressures, that once you take two shots, you can rely on the POI to stay there. IF you have a gun that is used to take CB (Cold Bore) shots, then that gun needs to be sighted in for THAT.
Tests have demonstrated that it takes a standard size airgun (D34/HW95) between 40 and 60 minutes to go back to the CB POI.
Larger airguns take longer, smaller airguns take less. Whatever you decide to do, just be consistent. You owe it to the animal you are shooting at, even if it is a pest.

"Then the process of regulation can take place".- This refers to making the barrel shoot to the POA that is deemed "best" for the system and purpose in context when the scope in its proper mounts is at its optically neutral axis. For example: An FT gun will need a large scope that is optically centered when the scope and trajectory align to zero at around 40-45 yards. In this way, you can have the same amount of deviation when the scope is clicked to 10 yards, or to 65. The exception would be the non-clicker, then you need to regulate the barrel to align with the optical center of the scope at the chosen zero distance, because you will NOT be moving the turrets, except for SMALL zero changes caused by altitude, temperature and humidity.
A Hunting gun, should have the optical center aligned to the POI at around 35 yards, for one because the best fixed parallax scopes for hunting have the parallax set to that distance, and because usually, people do not click for hunting.
Regulation and barrel bending may or may not be the same. IN DOUBLE guns, regulation means soft-soldering the two barrels and then adding or substracting wedges to make them shoot to the same POA at around 30-50 yards (depending on cartridge and customer) when shoot IN QUICK SUCCESSION. Because barrels bend and then return to shape in about 10 seconds, this is needed to ensure that you are going to hit the Buffalo that is charging you in the right spot. Once this is achieved, then the ribs are soldered woth TIX, or other hard solder and the setting is permanent, BUT that also means that that double gun should use only the LOAD with which it was regulated.
In airguns, you can choose to bend the barrel (meaning that the bend is somewhere in the middle section of the barrel), or regulate the barrel, where it means that the barrel is "bent" AT the BREECHBLOCK, the difference is that there are more "inches of travel" after the bend for the pellet to achieve the best possible alignment.
For 10 meters, only the last 2.5 cms/1" are important:



for 55 yards and longer, it is important to give the pellet as much settling as possible.

Price of the pellet trap.- Yes I did notice that, and it has been a trend with the CV-19 pandemic that most online stores are going to the MSRP. żIs this price gouging?  dunno, it's just something that I have observed even in previously serious companies like Optics Planet. Sad, but true.

LabRadar.- Has been undergoing improvements over the years but they are limited by the laws that regulate civilian use of radar waves. In the case of hollow-skirted pellets, the limit is about 30-40 yards in 0.177" and about 50-60 yards in 0.22" the ONLY surface that actually has a radar signature is the FLAT/HEMISPHERICAL bottom of the skirt. So, they are almost stealth designed. Trigger Microphones are better and they can be substituted by supercardioid mikes if it is really necessary. Piezo mikes would be best. At some point in time I discussed the inclusion of this in an airgun package with them, but conversations went no-where after IWA 2020 was cancelled. Still, it COULD be an interesting device if it had better small-caliber detection capability.

Shooting the Chrono.- The ONLY time that I have shot a chrono was when testing a Talon. I am used to a 2.5" LOS, but 4" was completely unexpected, ROFL! The FUNNY Part? that the chrono still worked!.
Got it repaired and is now a prized possession being one of the first ever workable civilian chronos. It is the reason why I am loyal to the Pro-Chrono people, even if Caldwell makes really good instruments, the service and the product support by Pro-Chrono is outstanding.

John's H.S. Scope AND base.- That scope started life as a Traditions Muzzle loader scope. But it was re-parallaxed to 35 yards by me. The base was a std DIANA ZR Mount Gen II (only one tube diameter), that can make the scope fir LOWER than the current Gen III that is dual (1"/ 30 mm's)
Traditions tell me that the 1145 scope is now discotinued and they are offering two different choices: the 1162 that is a 3-9X40 with the same reticle but with illumination. And the 1143 that is a 3-9X version of the 1145 that was 3.5-10X
DIANA has offered some support and I am thinking of running a special package of the scopes plus the Accurized ZR mounts for $200 each set. If there is interest, we can bring in the 1" ring mounts directly from DIANA, and purchase the scopes directly from Traditions. But you need to let me know as if the lot is not 10 sets or more, it will be more expensive (shipping from Germany).

Thinning the herd.- I've started Mitch's airgun, and I do believe that the old adage "Beware the man with one gun" is absolutely TRUE. When I talk with friends and customers, a LOT of times difficulties arise from owning TOO MANY airguns. Airguns are JEALOUS Mistresses/Masters, if you even oggle another airgun you will get a slap on the face in the form of a "wild flyer", ROFL!

Hope CV-19 is treating you all with respect and viceversa.

Keep well and shoot straight, precisely to stay SANE and HEALTHY !

;-)







HM


 

[RawDog R1]

Hello Hector kind Sir.
If you are compiling a list of interested parties for the Original quadrant target, please put me on that list. I would like one. Regards Ron

[fwbsport]

Thanks for the scope information, Hector!

There's another way to look at having more than one gun, I will always have one gun with many in reserve......

I have experienced these jealous mistresses for a few years by now, say 20 or 25 (Once 1982 came around I started visiting Beeman's in San Rafael), and know it's easier to shave down to the basics.

Now, one rifle is not ever going to fill the entire need.  For anyone.  I'll tell you why.  I can't always pull out the .20 H.S. D4 simply because cocking it is too long the first and second time.  If I hunt I need a carrying and walking around "light rifle" with enough power.  That's the HW95L.  That gets fired more than any other rifle because of its ability to be the "jack of all trades" worthy of shooting for hunting and silhouette (informal) or target shooting.  But this morning I started shooting my HW80 .25 and the accuracy at 25 yards is no different than the HW80 .20!

So questions about which "one rifle" to hotrod or use most of the time is really a question of which two rifles.

Caliber is a divider of crowds but not of hunters, and hunters do need to practice even if it is a varmint.  So the "hunting" rifle has to be good mechanically, with enough power and not too much power.  Ergo the .25 Caliber for me.  I would say get anything accurate (not necessarily fast) in .25 caliber in the springer to really learn and see what happens downrange to targets, whether reactive or paper.

I DID notice these Diana mounts (second generation) were lower than what is on my HW80 .25 and HW80 .20.  I was going to ask about that as well!

But, after this amount of time I see my "arsenal" coming down to some rifles I can't let go for now!  But all the others I don't need.


.177 HW57
.20 HW98
.20 D54
.25 HW95L
.25 HW80
.25 TB Eliminator

[fwbsport]

Yeah, this a.m. I figured the D54 .20 could be the ONE rifle only.
Twenty caliber, fast, accurate, a bit time consuming to reload and fire but the first shot should be the one.

I take "first shots" out a "cold" barrel and the rifle is dead on.  I continue shooting and the rifle is dead on. 

Hector, I changed my mind to look at the D54 as an "only" rifle to be a "beware the man with one gun".

 

[jentry]

UUuuuffff!

Take a day off and there is a deluge in posts, LOL!

Just kidding, happy for the opportunity to be of service.

I'll try to address the points, not so much the posts.

False feedback by the target.- This is why, 20 years ago I designed the Quadrant Spinner:



As you can see, whether you hit the bullseye, or you hit the side-leaves, you get immediate feedback that is USEFUL information.

Problem is that to make them PROPERLY, you need to have precision work. Current offerings are so loosely made that, small caliber pellets can "slip through the cracks" and give you NO feedback at all. Which is, to be honest, quite annoying. BUT, that is what happens when you cheapen a product.

Perhaps I should get another run made? What say ye?

.......

HM

I would get in on a target run. I find it difficult to set-up paper targets and dislike having to find hole while shooting. Instant feedback on shot placement, a nice smacking sound, and durable construction materials make me happy.

[fwbsport]

This is the confusing part of offhand shooting!  I get lazy and refuse to check the steel trap, continue shooting hearing "clinks" of hits but no movement in the reactive target (well, a little movement).  So I hiked up to the traps and saw they had been thrust back (the entire trap) against the flagstone or bricks. 

Once in awhile I see the .20 pellet on its way to the traps through the scope, or I see the flattened pellet bounce back from steel into the ground below as if they had just been dropped from the face of the steel ring.  Weird!

[HectorMedina]

As long as YOU have fun, it's alllllllll-right!

;-)





HM

[fwbsport]

Cecelia is going to frame the certificate like she has already done for my 1964 S&W .38 Chief's Special from Roy Jinks.

Thanks Hector, next time you're here you'll see it!

[HectorMedina]

  

Keep well and shoot straight!



HM