Diana Outlaw

[Kevinbear]

Thinking about getting into the pcp game with the Diana Outlaw in .177 caliber, good choice? and what pump should I get?
Plan to use it in my pest control business mostly on rabbits and squirrels but enjoy recreational shooting as well.
 I've never won lottery so I have financial limitations.

[Kevinbear]

I can tell you from a person who has been on several other firearm and motorcycle related forums for many years this forum is unnecessarily difficult to navigate, I just spent 10 minutes trying to reply to a private message without success.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Really ?

I thought this forum is Idiot proof,....I can navigate it easily and I'm clearly an idiot


on the original question,...Outlaw owners ( or all the other names it comes with ) seem to be very happy with the rifle.

[Bicycleman]

Good morning, Kevin, and WELCOME.
Sorry for your difficulty using the GTA Forum.  (Give it a chance before you get too negative though.)
There are many choices for hand pumps for PCP rifles and pistols.  Some are over $200 and others are about $30. 
Many have said that HILL is the top of the line.  Benjamin is sort of middle quality.  <---I have one of these that I bought in 2013 and it still works fine.  The cheap ones can be found on E-Bay at a very low price.  I have one of those too.  It also works great.  I have two PCP rifles and hunt regularly.  I do NO target/competition shooting - so, the pumps get moderate/sporadic use.
Be prepared to do a little work though!      Good luck with whatever you choose.

[anti-squirrel]

This forum isn't hard to navigate.  It is broken up in to sections referred to as "Gates".  IE: we are in the PCP/CO2 gate.  Big-Bore Gate is intended for big-bore airguns, like the Casting Gate for those who cast their own pellets or slugs.

Check out the forum rules and information- there's a lot of good insight there, as well as other stuff you consented to by joining.  I also doubt you'll find a more civil forum around.  People here tend to be very chill and relaxed most of the time.


Now about that diana Outlaw- the Diana rifles are manufactured by SPA- based out of China.  They produce some excellent designs that have a ton of potential, and some models, such as my PR900W rifle and PP700 pistol, have a lot of fans. 

  Now more particular to your Outlaw- this is effectively the same airgun as the SPA M16, and we have some serious fans of this PCP.  Wayne (he'll pop in soon I'm sure) uses his for hunting and have great success.  And for reference, if you just click on the search feature in this PCP/HPA/CO2 Gate and type outlaw, you'll get a lot of hits:  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=search2

For pest control, the Outlaw would not be my first choice because the power may be too great for suburban pesting but I also trend toward big heavy slow-moving projectiles for pesting, not small fast projectiles.  Eons ago (1996/1997) I worked for a pest control company specializing in Avian Abatement- my boss had a R-7 springer in .20 and I owned a Sheridan Blue Streak (also .20) and we killed an insane number of pigeons- my Blue Streak was never used on more than 5 pumps.  If I was looking for a pest control airgun now, I doubt I would choose just one.  I'd likely have several depending on the quarry size.  A .22 for up to rabbit/fox squirrel size, and a detuned .30 for larger.  Again, just my preference.

Now- to counter my own statement, you stated .177, and there's a plethora of choices when it comes to ammo.  Everything from wadcutters to hollowpoints, Polymags to slugs, standard diabolo-style domes, and some other stuff too including a barrel-swap and then shooting arrows.  This literally is the best time to get into airgunning, and the sheer number of possible choices is nearly overwhelming, whether you have a tiny budget or unlimited funds. 

I always tell newcomers to figure out what you want to do, figure out the caliber, figure out the range/distance, the noise level etc, and let the final choice be your budget, because ultimately, it will let you do the most research and figure out everything you may or may not want without being concerned with the final cost.  Once you know all the features you need as well as want but don't need, factor your budget and drop everything that cannot make the cut.  I will add that used PCPs are a great choice because you get something that usually has all the kinks irons out as well as first-hand knowledge regarding what shoots best.

Regarding pumps and compressors: I own a few PCPs, no compressor.  I have 2 handpumps, a Benjamin pump and a Taousa pump from China off Amazon (paid $45 for the Taousa).  The first time I tried my China-pump, I put my Benji pump in the box an put it away as my spare.  That was a couple years ago.  You may have people tell you that you NEED to get a different pump, but the fact is there's a bunch of here with those Chinese pumps and there are very few complaints about them- especially for the price.


And for further reference, check out the Hunting Gate- this is as good a place as any to review lethality and choices for pest control.  This last year I used a Crosman Custom Shop 2400KT CO2-powered carbine with an 18" barrel- shooting ~ 560 FPS with RWS Mesieterkugeln wadcutters (for roughly 10 foot-pounds of energy) and every single squirrel (more than 60 with this particular airgun) was a lights-out DRT.  Only a couple did more than twitch and keel over but the gun is good enough for eye-socket and ear-canal shots.  I'll qualify that and say I'm a mediocre shooter, too, but my ranges are short, usually 19 yards.  IE: It doesn't take much power to kill small pests.

[Kevinbear]

I put together a deal this morning trading a RWS 48 I have in on a new Outlaw with a Hill hand pump. Boxed up the 48 and will be shipping it out tomorrow.
I've been using a Gamo whisper with the nitro piston for quite a few years outside and a Sheridan silver streak inside, never really been happy with the Gamo but the Sheridan works good because of the variable power. I'll probably trade or sell the Gamo to try and recoup some of what I have in it, I put a Maccari trigger in it.
Looking forward to having a repeater that's relatively quiet.
I have QB-78 that I put a TKO suppressor on, don't know if you guys are familiar with them but they are very quiet, hoping the outlaw isn't much louder.
BTW I'm a fan of JSB heavy pellets, excellent penetration and less wind drift.
My complaint about this forum is how many layers there are to get where your going, just something to get used to I guess.

[Kevinbear]

I know little about the pcp airgun thing, is it possible to buy an old scuba tank that you could have filled periodically and use it to charge your gun? I see them for sale that say they need to be recertified but if your using it for an airgun would that be necessary? They probably won't fill them unless there certified right?

[Bicycleman]

Kevin said:  "My complaint about this forum is how many layers there are to get where your going, just something to get used to I guess."
Kevin, I think we all started the same way.  And for some of us (me for example), this is our first ever forum.

[smythsg]

Hi Kevin, I am one of the Diana Outlaw/SPA M16/ Airmax Dominator (chose your name  ) owners and I have been very pleased with the rifles. Mine are in .22 cal and .25 cal, so no first hand experience with .177 cal, but the platform is basically the same for all versions. The rifle is light weight, accurate, just a pleasure to tote and shoot. It is easy to adjust the hammer spring to get the velocity where you want it, and it shoots many pellets well.

I too have a Hill pump, a China pump, and a compressor. I don't use the pumps so much any more (spoiled by the compressor) but when I do pump, most of the time I use the China pump. Nothing wrong with the Hill, the China pump just seems a little smoother.

We look forward to hearing about your experiences with the Outlaw. They are fine rifles!!

[Kevinbear]

I should have it in about 2 weeks if not sooner, I'll see if I can find the owners manual online so I'm familiar with it when it arrives. What's the purpose of adjusting the hammer spring? My goal is accuracy and keeping the velocity just below the speed of sound so there's no crack.

[Nomadic Pirate]

I put together a deal this morning trading a RWS 48 I have in on a new Outlaw with a Hill hand pump. Boxed up the 48 and will be shipping it out tomorrow.

Best deal,....Ever !!!!!!!

[smythsg]

Kevin, you didn't mention if you have a chrony?

When you start shooting your PCP you will have many choices of pellets, some will weigh more than others, and some are better for short range, others better for longer ranges. The Outlaw will only push the lightest of pellets anywhere close to the speed of sound, and those light pellets will probably not be the best choice for hunting game, or be very accurate at distance. Hollow point pellets are good for short range, domed pellets for longer ranges, etc. Heavier pellets, carrying more energy down range, will shoot slower than the lightest pellets, but may be much more effective taking game at distance. A chrony will help you understand the muzzle velocity of your shots, and in conjunction with a ballistics program like Chairgun, you can calculate your holdover at different distances.

When you receive the Outlaw, the hammer spring may be set at the factory default position, which is not the max power the rifle can produce. Even adjusting the hammer spring all the way in may not max out the power without using a couple of shims on the adjuster shaft. The Outlaw is a regulated rifle so adjusting the tension on the hammer spring provides a range of velocities available to you. You may find that you want the most power that the rifle can offer, or if most of your shots are very close and you are concerned about pellet pass through, you may want to turn the power level down. This would be the purpose of adjusting the hammer spring.

[Kevinbear]

Kevin, you didn't mention if you have a chrony?

When you start shooting your PCP you will have many choices of pellets, some will weigh more than others, and some are better for short range, others better for longer ranges. The Outlaw will only push the lightest of pellets anywhere close to the speed of sound, and those light pellets will probably not be the best choice for hunting game, or be very accurate at distance. Hollow point pellets are good for short range, domed pellets for longer ranges, etc. Heavier pellets, carrying more energy down range, will shoot slower than the lightest pellets, but may be much more effective taking game at distance. A chrony will help you understand the muzzle velocity of your shots, and in conjunction with a ballistics program like Chairgun, you can calculate your holdover at different distances.

When you receive the Outlaw, the hammer spring may be set at the factory default position, which is not the max power the rifle can produce. Even adjusting the hammer spring all the way in may not max out the power without using a couple of shims on the adjuster shaft. The Outlaw is a regulated rifle so adjusting the tension on the hammer spring provides a range of velocities available to you. You may find that you want the most power that the rifle can offer, or if most of your shots are very close and you are concerned about pellet pass through, you may want to turn the power level down. This would be the purpose of adjusting the hammer spring.

Good information, yes I have a Pact chronograph I use for load development in conventional firearms, it gives you all the pertinent information-standard deviations, average velocities etc.etc. I have decent selection of pellets already, I see JSB has a couple of new ones out I'll probably try. I've had a RWS 54 Airking for quite a while, I don't know if there all as accurate as the one I have but when it's calm outside I can hit a NRA air rifle scale chicken at 100 meters with it off the bench using an older vintage of Crosman premiers. That size chicken is less than an inch in diameter. Those average 1004fps with a standard deviation of 10fps. The problem with the 54 is it weighs over 11lbs with a scope, it's hard to shoot offhand more than a couple of shots and I get tired of carrying it. Hence the move towards a lightweight pcp, occasionally I have to shoot prairie dogs in open space and can't mention the name facilities, like 4-6 hours, try that with a 11lb gun. Shooting, cocking and concentrating on hold with a barrel cocker is fatiguing as well.

[smythsg]

Ha Ha, yes Kevin I have owned many Hatsan rifles, break barrel and PCP, so I can identify with the weight issues. I always said that those rifles should come with wheels... From that perspective, you will absolutely love the Outlaw. Mine are less than 7 lbs with the optic attached, (Sig Romeo 5 red dot) so all day carry and off hand shooting is no issue at all.

Just FYI, my .25 cal does very well with 29.5 gn Nielsen slugs and I plan to order some .22 slugs to test soon as well. You might want to look at Nielsen's slugs in .177.

[Kevinbear]

Question, I just heard a guy on youtube say the moderator on the Outlaw is threaded on to the end of the barrel, if so what thread is it? Pretty excited to hear that because I could probably have a bushing made for the TKO suppressor I have for my QB-78 and use it on the Outlaw. People say the Outlaw isn't that quiet, with a high end suppressor it should be unless the pellets are traveling supersonic which brings me to my second question, I'm a little bit concerned with the velocity of the Outlaw in .177, is it for certain that I can shoot heavy .177 pellets below the speed of sound?

So 1. Is the barrel threaded and what is it?
2. What's the velocity of the 10.34gr. pellets?

[AustinBinTX]

Question, I just heard a guy on youtube say the moderator on the Outlaw is threaded on to the end of the barrel, if so what thread is it? Pretty excited to hear that because I could probably have a bushing made for the TKO suppressor I have for my QB-78 and use it on the Outlaw. People say the Outlaw isn't that quiet, with a high end suppressor it should be unless the pellets are traveling supersonic which brings me to my second question, I'm a little bit concerned with the velocity of the Outlaw in .177, is it for certain that I can shoot heavy .177 pellets below the speed of sound?

So 1. Is the barrel threaded and what is it?
2. What's the velocity of the 10.34gr. pellets?

The barrel is a M12x1.25 thread if I remember correctly.

[Kevinbear]

Do you still have the gun Austin? If you do please check the length of the threaded section, thank you.

[AustinBinTX]

Unfortunately I don’t have any of my M16/M16As anymore, although, I may have a stock .22 barrel from one still here.

I want to say it was either 13mm or 14mm, but it’s been a while, and I’m probably way off. If no one chimes in, I’ll go see if I can find the barrel I have and measure it for you when I get out of work in the morning.

[Kevinbear]

Thank you Austin, also measure the barrel diameter if you have a dial caliper that measures to .001, I can probably have the adapter made in a couple of hours on my neighbors lathe.
That's a common thread on metric fuel lines.

[Kevinbear]

Thank you Austin, also measure the barrel diameter if you have a dial caliper that measures to .001, I can probably have the adapter made in a couple of hours on my neighbors lathe.
That's a common thread on metric fuel lines.