I give up! A rant from a ticked off noob.

[Will403536]

Picked up a Nitro Venom Dusk .22 and Nitro Venom Wood .177. Only shot the .22. Here is a review from someone not initiated into the air gun obsession:

-cocking it was too tiring. After 150 shots, my entire upper body would be sore, it felt like I had a fever. I tried cocking it in all kinds of ways to, to find the easiest for me. Holding it against my upper thigh caused it to dig into my pelvis area, even leaving wave-shaped bloody marks days later. I have very little body fat, so I guess there's no padding for the pressure. Am I just a weakling?

-setting up the scope was TOO much effort! Cleaning with 100% ethanol (yall call it "denatured alcohol", I got the science lab stuff), tightening screws, only to have the scope continue to slip, but I don't wanna crush my scope tube, and why do I have to spend more $$ to buy LocTite and other stuff just to get a $150 gun working properly out of the box?

-scopes = pain in the butt! My .22 came with a dented scope (WalMart FedEx's the retail display box, which has no protection for the scope), so I used the same scope that came with my .177. On both scopes, I noticed that adjusting to a # of clicks, even using a ruler and calculator, did NOT give predictable results! How much scope lag should I expect?

-break-in was horrendous. After probably 300 shots, my barrel was still smoking like crazy! Maybe I coulda used Goo-Gone and a weed whacker line + patch, but that's more investment just to get a retail product working brand new!

extremely hold-sensitive  I couldn't properly zero the gun past 5 yd because of imprecision in my shooting technique, I admit. But just what kind of Olympic level training is required to enjoy a pellet gun for fun? The gun is also heavy to me, and even holding it on a rest, the gun was still very hold sensitive. The artillery hold is difficult to get used to, and if I'm realistically using it for hunting at 30 yd, with no set up gun rest/pillow/etc., how could I expect to get any accuracy at all?

I was expecting to get a fun toy that allowed me to avoid all the ridiculous firearms regulations and not kill my neighbors by accident, but still let me hit targets and small game, birds, etc. What I got was no doubt an engineering marvel, but which required extreme amount effort and dedication just to be able to enjoy it properly. Not quite satisfying, so I returned them both.

I have to be honest though, I'm itching to give it another go, maybe contact WalMart this time to make sure they ship it with proper packaging so nothing gets damaged and I can be sure that the gun I get will be accurate and consistent. I would also Goo-Gone the barrel and LocTite the scope this time. But man oh man... how do you guys enjoy this torture?

[farrlarr]

A certain amount of masochism is essential for shooting springers.

Is the scope slipping in the mount or is the mount itself slipping?  If the former, a small piece of double-sided tape in the bottom of each ring should hold it in place.  If the latter, is there a scope stop on the gun (a small hole bored in the breech) and a stop pin in the mount (a screw in the rear of the mount, to be screwed down into the stop).  If present but not lined up and screwed in, the mount will slip.  If neither is present, things get a bit more difficult.  Where are you putting LocTite?  If on the mount and ring screws, that is okay.  If anywhere else, things are screwy.

Did you buy your guns from WalMart, as your post implies?  If so, they have a no-questions-asked return/replacement policy.  Take the dented scope back and ask for a new one.  If from someone else, contact them about refund or replacement.

Cocking the Nitro piston should not be that difficult; the Nitro Venom is advertised as requiring under 25 pounds of cocking effort. Holding the butt plate against your thigh and breaking the barrel with your left hand (assuming you are right handed) at the muzzle end of the barrel should most certainly not result in "bloody marks," no matter how little body fat you have!  

Dieseling is caused by lubricant in the barrel and it really isn't good for the gun.  Guns are shipped with oil or grease in/on them to protect them against the elements to which they might be exposed during shipping (usually from overseas) and many companies seem to over do it.  It is good practice to remove that lubricant before shooting; expecting the gun to be absolutely ready to shoot just because it is new is not the best way to approach things.  Yes, it should be mechanically ready but lubrication levels are often an issue, and it simply makes safety sense to be sure there are no obstruction in the barrel by running some patches through it until they come out clean.

Hold sensitivity is an issue with springers.  You have apparently tried the artillery hold, which is pretty much essential for springers.  Maybe you would be better advised to try a PCP.

Other issues, questions, etc., bring them up here.  I'm sure the enablers here will manage to hook into your interest and lead you along a path to satisfaction (even if it is only in buying another gun that more closely fits your needs).

[longislandhunter]

So sorry to hear that your first experience with springers left such a bad taste in your mouth, but after reading you post I can see how you would certainly be discouraged.  

First off,, take a deep breath.  No, I mean a really deep breath.  Ok, exhale slowly, do you feel better?  

Larry has given you solid advice.  The rifle should not be that difficult to cock.  Follow the technique Larry described and you'll get the hang of it.   Get yourself some weed whacker line, "Goo-Gone", patches and take a few minutes to clean the barrel again. I know you already cleaned it but just do it again.   Now, for the scope.  I'm not sure what kind of scope mount came with the rifle, my choice would be an "Accushot" 1 piece mount but whatever mount came with it go ahead and clean all metal surfaces of the mount, including the threads on all screws, with denatured alcohol.  Also clean the top of the rifle receiver as well as the scope tube with the denatured alcohol.  Now go ahead and install the scope using a drop of blue loctite on each screw.  Tighten down all the screws and put the rifle away for at least 24 hours for the loctite to cure,,, 48 hours is even better.  Now, before you take that first shot take a fine lined pencil and make marks around the scope tube where the rings clamp on.  These marks will instantly show any slip, but if you did the procedure as described you won't have any slip.    I know you don't want to use loctite but trust me, just do it.  Make sure the stock screws are tight.... you are now ready to shoot.  

Shoot your first group at 10 yards, just to get the scope on paper, then move back and do the final sight in.  Use a good domed pellet to start, the Crosman Hollow points that Walmart sells are fine and will usually shoot decent in most guns.  You will need to order a pellet sampler pack to find the best pellets for the rifle but for now  a plain domed pellet should work.  As for mathematically calculating the effect of each click of the elevation and windage turrets..... forget about it.  You're going to have to crank the windage and elevation much more than you though you would have to, just do it, you'll see the POI move.  You may have to crank it 15 or 20 clicks but you'll see the POI move.  It's just the way it is.  Once you get it sighted in then you can start adjusting with just a click or 2 here and there.  It's just the way it is.

As for the artillery hold.... if it doesn't work for you and your rifle then don't use it.  I personally don't use the artillery hold, except for a few rifles I have that demand it, but for all my other shooters I don't use it, opting for a more traditional hold.  Some rifles like a firm hold, some a loose hold, some like a little further forward and some back,,, you just have to experiment with you rifle.  

When shooting, even at a shooting bench, don't rest the rifle on anything except you open palm,, it will make a big difference.  Besides, when out in the woods hunting that's what you'll be using as a rest anyway so it's a good habit to get into.  

Now just take some time, sit down and just have some fun shooting and getting to know your rifle.  It will no doubt take time and practice on your part to get used to the shooting dynamics of springers but you're already an accomplished shooter so it won't take as long as you might think.  In no time you'll see those groups shrink in size as you get more trigger time with your springer.   Don't get frustrated, don't get mad, just relax and keep shooting. Before you even know it you'll be hooked like the rest of us.  

Hang in there.  

Jeff

[randomgunner]

I'm gonna be honest. I hate it when people expect a gun to shoot perfectly out the box. Ok, the cocking. Wear thicker clothing. The nitro piston does not always smooth cocking.
Scope. We all had to go through scope mounting. The cleaning with alcohol thing, never did it. Wonder whats it for? And the scope dent thing isnt really an issue until it makes it hard to use or see through. Breaking in. Sorry, but 300 rounds is not enough.  My Titan did not break-in at 500 rounds. Hold sensitivity,  the artillery hold is twhe only hold that allows you to shoot accurately, so what's the problem?
Gun weight, get used to it.
If you have so many issues with the nitrogen piston, than i think itd be best that you get a bb gun or multi pump pnenematic.

[Chortdraw]

Sorry to here of your experience. I just got a Venom Dusk and did a good tune on it and it shoots great. A hundred and fifty cocks on the gun will make me take a rest but I am 72 years old. Just think of it as a little workout without going to the gym. Seems a gun when new should just shoot good without doing anything but that is the nature of the beast. I listened for quite a while to guys on this forum and the learning experience was worth a ton. Then I bought a Gamo and did some of the things I learned about. Set back and read some of these, take that deep breath and try again. That Venom is a really good gun and with a little work it will surprise you.

[RedFeather]

Well, 150 rounds, depending upon how fast you are sending them down range, can be fatiguing.  Still, if the gun is supposed to be 25 pounds, it should not be difficult to cock.  Most magnum springers are in the 30 pound range and up.  I have to brace my 54 on my thigh.  (For wooden stocked guns or those with a painted finish, be wary of jeans rivets.  Dinged my pristine Diana in only five rounds.)  

You had asked earlier about the scope slipping.  From that last post, it sounded like the scope was slipping in the rings.  You should try the tape or rubber cement if that is the problem.  Happens on powder burners, too, so not something unique to springers.  If the mount or rings are slipping, you need a scope stop.  Some guns come with them, like a triangular piece of sheet metal with a screw in it, while others you have to add one that clamps to the grooves.  And, about that scope, you should certainly return it for an exchange.  As I mentioned previously, there could be internal damage you can't see.

Yes, springers are heavy.  I imagine the gas piston guns are actually lighter than their wound wire counterparts.  Depending upon condition and upper body strength, you might have to shorten your sessions to let your muscles recuperate.  I know that I would be wobbling worse than someone with St. Vitus Dance were I to shoot a long string.  Heck, my crosshairs waggle enough for me to take Dramamine as it is.

Don't count your guns down and out yet.  Like anything worth doing, it takes a bit of practice before you get it right.  Stick with it.

PS - The dieseling is probably coming from inside the gun and not the barrel.  Must be still burning off lubes or oil.  Noticed that a lot of guns seem to be getting sprayed with a light oil these days.  The makers should know better since that stuff is only going to burn off.

[Will403536]

I appreciate the advice from here. I might try it again when I have more free time. I store/shoot the guns in a different state (due to laws), so I don't get to shoot them very often, but I love shooting, so I wanted quick fun, with minimal time and work spent getting it all set up.

Yes the slipping was the scope in the rings, the Nitro Venoms come with a weaver rail, and that worked great actually. I've been hearing amazing things about this rifle TBH, so I wondered if it was just me being a noob.

Funny thing that farrlarr mentioned the factory oil/lube, the .177 Nitro Venom I got from WalMart came covered with brown grease, literally all over the outside of the gun such that when I pulled it out my hands were covered with grease. I chalked that one up to just a factory glitch.

[RedFeather]

Sounds like the source of your dieseling.  I think they must have a bunch of ex-GI's prepping the guns for shipping.  Next thing you know, it will be Cosmoline.

[MustangMike]

Every one had gave great advice, I can say that gamo bigcat which was 150ish after has about 600 pellets through it. It took a lot to get it to not smoke but still every now and again I get a faint whisp of burning lube.. btw I also shot the first 375 pellets out of my bigcat before I mounted a scope or even cared about accuracy..

Also if ur using the scope that came with the rifle, its time to get a better scope... a nice scope will make a world of difference.. something my uncle learned yesterday shoot his gamo and then shooting mine.. he uses the scope that came with his gamo and a I have a 5th generation golden image leapers 3-9x32AO...

Try rolling up a towel and using that as a rest when shooting, also pay close attention to ur trigger learn to feel when its about to break. Most factory triggers have some kind of ruff spot or a  faint click before the trigger breaks and the shot is fired... with my gamo the trigger will easly pull back untill it hits the 2nd stage and then its just a hair harder pull and it breaks.. my walther p99q co2 pistol has a faint click right before the trigger breaks and the shot is fired.. you need to learn to get a feel for your gun and more importantly get a feel for how you shoot..

[clip]

Sounds like the source of your dieseling.  I think they must have a bunch of ex-GI's prepping the guns for shipping.  Next thing you know, it will be Cosmoline.

COSMOLINE !!  Groan...parts soaking in gasoline..all those fumes, the brushes....GAG..

[dropshot]

 "-setting up the scope was TOO much effort! Cleaning with 100% ethanol (yall call it "denatured alcohol", I got the science lab stuff), tightening screws, only to have the scope continue to slip, but I don't wanna crush my scope tube, and why do I have to spend more $$ to buy LocTite and other stuff just to get a $150 gun working properly out of the box?"

Well I hope it works out for you. I am not trying to be mean or sound like a jerk............but you were given sound advice in this area and a lot of headache could have been avoided if you had heeded the advice  

[Bryan Heimann]

well, for the $300-some-odd dollars you spent on those two break barrels, you coulda got a  disco with a pump or a nice, solid steroid 392 with a williams peep.  both guns have adequate power and nice open sights, one's self-contained(steroid), the other offers a quick follow-up(disco).  these things being said, while you may have to find the right hold for a springer/gas ram  to yield "superb" accuracy, it's been my experience that as long as you use a good follow-through then you can get an inch at 20 yards with any gun.  my xl is capable of superb accuracy but it takes so much  technique to extract it that i decided today to just re-zero off hand at 30 yards with just a nice, comfy off-hand hold. try to keep those crosshairs on the target untill you hear the impact, groups will look better automatically.  IMHO you're better off using a bad hold with good follow-through than you are using the perfect technique without follow-through.

[RedFeather]

Clip, knew a guy in the Army who said that the worst KP was being assigned to the armorer where he made them unpack and degrease new guns.  Sounds like you might have enjoyed that a bit, yourself.  

[RedFeather]

AirHunter, being new to air guns, he probably wasn't aware of the Disco (which I am and don't have a hankering for) and especially a Steroid tuned pumper.  BTW, if he doesn't like cranking that barrel at 25 pounds, he sure as heck ain't gonna like pumping up that Disco or imitating a Chuck Norris workout on that Steroid, LOL!

[z28rod]

I guess I was lucky with my walmart titan. She shoots great right out of the box.Now after allot of pellets she shoots even better. Installed a Tuna trigger and wow accuracy increased 50% right away. But if i had his problem with the nitro venom I would have returned it immediately.

[SAADE]

Get rid of all that stuff and go get a Benjamin 397 or 392 and a Williams Peep Sight or, the scope mounts and a small 7x AO scope. Ya, it' a pumper and it's a little bit of work on each shot but.. no recoil and lot's of fun. You will want to tune up the trigger though, there are lot's of articles and info on how to do this on the web and here. It's easy to do and makes the trigger a real shooter.

Cheap spring guns are tough on even the seasoned pros, it's not your fault, it takes a lot of insight into the mechanics of spring guns to make them shoot well unless you spend $$ modifying (the cheap ones) or spend big $$ to buy a really great one, like a TX200 or HW97K.

[clip]

Clip, knew a guy in the Army who said that the worst KP was being assigned to the armorer where he made them unpack and degrease new guns.  Sounds like you might have enjoyed that a bit, yourself.   

  LOL....wasn't the Army but the duty was the same. Actually, the REAL KP was much better than what the armorer had in store. At least it was possible to eat what we policed ( biting tongue, here..). It all depended on how badly we P.O.ed the Sgt.  AHHH..fond memories.....

[Atchman2]

Man I hated KP, I hated Cosmoline, maybe I'm just a hater?  

[lizzie]

Sounds like the source of your dieseling.  I think they must have a bunch of ex-GI's prepping the guns for shipping. Next thing you know, it will be Cosmoline.

Is cosmoline black and sticky like used motor oil? A couple of weeks ago, I picked up an old BSA scope from (probably) the 70's. It was covered with some kind of black thick sticky stuff that I had to use rubbing alcohol to remove. I couldn't figure out what it was, but was just guessing it was there to protect the scope's surface in some manner.

[ezman604]

No lizzie, cosmoline it a thick paste grease that was used when arms were built and were to either be in storage for a long time or shipped overseas. This thick stuff was to protect the gun from salt water or just rust while in prolonged storage. On your scope was probably a flat rubberized coating used on some scopes. It was not applied very well or tends to break down after a short time. That's a different coating all together.

Happy shooting!!!!
Dave