Group results with a quality LDC......and without

[redlined_b16a]

Spent alot of time today shooting my AT44 .22
I have shot about 1000 rounds today teathered at diffrent pressures but that will be another thread.

I replicated these results about a dozen times today.

The photo with the Neil Clauge LDC is the tighter groups

The wider groups are without the LDC
All 5 shot strings started at 2700 psi where my gun seemed happiest with my selected ammo.
Teathered to keep the conditions as close to identical as possible.
Groups were at 35 yards almost no wind.
Aiming for the centers laying on the ground on a bipod.
My testing with my gun shows that the LDC tightens up my groups drastically.
Just thought I'd share my results on the Question "Does an LDC effect accuracy?"
I have made my own and I know for a fact an incorrectly made LDC will hurt the p.o.i..

Whatever magic Neil put into his LDC is amazing.
My reason for this testing was trying to figure out why I was inconstant with accuracy,I ruled out all types of ammo.Decided to pick a pellet and adjust the gun to it.Removed the LDC to see if that helped or hurt groups.
No matter what velocity the LDC groups were tighter.

[wolverine]

For my Brocock Contour? YES!


I get considerable better groups with the Neil Clague on it than without, or with the Hugget that came with it.

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I'd recommend a bore polish and cleaning the crown up.  Your groups should be that good without the moderator, I would think? 
But, hey.  That looks good to me, haha. 

I shoot pretty long range, and both of my best moderators cause my groups to spread ever so slightly.  Maybe I ought to try a Clauge.

[redlined_b16a]

I'd recommend a bore polish and cleaning the crown up.  Your groups should be that good without the moderator, I would think? 
But, hey.  That looks good to me, haha. 

I shoot pretty long range, and both of my best moderators cause my groups to spread ever so slightly.  Maybe I ought to try a Clauge.

With different ammo I can get better groups.
Today I was trying the highly available locally Crosman 14.3 grain CPHP's and play with the guns tuning until it shot cheap ammo good enough for longer range plinking.Today before I tuned it to the choosen ammo it was 2" groups at 35 yards.After the tuning im getting 3/4" on a bipod,no bag rest or stand.

Cheap ammo and my conditions I'll take that at $6 for 500 pellets.
BTW I have machined an 11 degree target crown on this barrel,No bore paste yet as Im satisfied with the performance for what I use it for.
Its my pest bird and rabbit hunter inside 100 yards.

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I'd recommend a bore polish and cleaning the crown up.  Your groups should be that good without the moderator, I would think? 
But, hey.  That looks good to me, haha. 

I shoot pretty long range, and both of my best moderators cause my groups to spread ever so slightly.  Maybe I ought to try a Clauge.

With different ammo I can get better groups.
Today I was trying the highly available locally Crosman 14.3 grain CPHP's and play with the guns tuning until it shot cheap ammo good enough for longer range plinking.Today before I tuned it to the choosen ammo it was 2" groups at 35 yards.After the tuning im getting 3/4" on a bipod,no bag rest or stand.

Cheap ammo and my conditions I'll take that at $6 for 500 pellets.
BTW I have machined an 11 degree target crown on this barrel,No bore paste yet as Im satisfied with the performance for what I use it for.
Its my pest bird and rabbit hunter inside 100 yards.

Good deal.  Sounds like you've got it under control, haha.

Those are basically junk Pellets, but my sortie likes them.  I also run them thru a die and use them in a choked LW 1322.  My Crown does well with them, too.  But you have to keep the velocity low.  Otherwise groups open up by feet, not inches.

[redlined_b16a]

Id also like to point out that these sticker targets are 1" diameter,So the group may be sub 1/2" I did not measure.
im pleased.
The CPHP are cheap pellets.My experiment was to see at what tune my gun Would favor them.
I'll chrony them another time but Id guess its between 800 and 880 feet per second.
Just for kicks ill go measure the group.

[redlined_b16a]

Without the LDC is 1.180" CTC

LDC group is .436"...……….I'll take that any day!
So in conclusion My results the LDC shed over a 1/2" at 35 yards.
Your results may vary




With cheap ammo

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Either way, that's a huge difference, and frankly impressive.  For an LDC  (and those Pellets, haha) Considering what the Pellets actually look like up close

[redlined_b16a]

Yea the flashing that's not trimmed off on each pellet lol.
The Benjamin version is a smoother pellet but its also a few dollars more.

[VaporTrail]

one man's junk is another man's treasure. The CPUM Domes are hole in hole out of my Gamo Magnum at 20 yards. I stay at this range to minimize FPE loss. Oh...and those "junk" pellets also took down a couple of hogs. One was a 55lb sow and the other was a 75lb male. Proven performers for me.

redline - my Boss loves them. Don't know what would cause your groups to tighten with the LDC, but on my Magnum I did notice that my FPS dropped with it on. I haven't tried shooting my Sumatra and my Winchester for groupings without the LDC. They're both too loud for the neighborhood. 

[anti-squirrel]

Great results, no doubt.

Makes me wonder if the LDC helps operate as an air-stripper of sorts.  I know my 2400KT shoots more accurate with wadcutters using a Rocker1 LDC than no LDC.

[Motorhead]

Interesting results to be sure ....

My personal observations on the issue nearly always become that of harmonics and a bit more muzzle weight aiding in a reduced muzzle flip.
While the shot happens with less heard noise, the resulting increase in accuracy seldom has any correlation to a specific devise ... just its effect on the aforementioned.

[redlined_b16a]

I'm going to experiment with my Bullboss .25
It's only accurate with Jsb .25 grains......nothing else.
Jsb its 1/2"-5/8" at 35 yards
Any other ammo its 2" groups.
Tried baffle less
Diffrent should nut tensions
Clean barrel
Dirty barrel
All with no diffrent results.

I have my Bullboss QE with one shots 3d baffles down to 78db on my meter.
Stock if I remember correctly was in the low to mid 80's
It works exceptionally well for the low price one shot charges.
However if another LDC can offer tighter groups I'm all for it.
Bullboss is maxed out at 43ft lbs which is sufficient.
It's my go to woods gun for rabbits,hogs and yote within 50 yards.
Mostly rabbits.

[VaporTrail]

Hmm...that's really odd. I wonder what would be causing such wide groupings.

Have you tried going back to the stock baffles? I know they're not the greatest, but maybe worth a shot? Anything rough in the barrel? Although that should affect all ammo...not producing exceptions. What about the grub screws that secure the barrel in the block? Are those in their original positions?

I find it odd that it's limited to only one pellet. My .25 really liked the Benjamin Domes and they were local, so that's pretty much all I fed it. They were hole in hole at 30.

I have a .22 LDC that does NOT play nice with my new to me BB. I have clipping issues even after hogging out the LDC to 3/16. I'm gonna try opening it up even more to see how it'll work with the QE, although I've been told that the QEs don't play nice with LDCs.

I'm also going to experiment with my stock BB. I'm going to take off the entire shroud and just run the LDC straight on the barrel. If I still get clipping issues then I'm hogging it out to 9mm. 

[Jaycee]

Hmm...that's really odd. I wonder what would be causing such wide groupings.

Have you tried going back to the stock baffles? I know they're not the greatest, but maybe worth a shot? Anything rough in the barrel? Although that should affect all ammo...not producing exceptions. What about the grub screws that secure the barrel in the block? Are those in their original positions?

I find it odd that it's limited to only one pellet. My .25 really liked the Benjamin Domes and they were local, so that's pretty much all I fed it. They were hole in hole at 30.

I have a .22 LDC that does NOT play nice with my new to me BB. I have clipping issues even after hogging out the LDC to 3/16. I'm gonna try opening it up even more to see how it'll work with the QE, although I've been told that the QEs don't play nice with LDCs.

I'm also going to experiment with my stock BB. I'm going to take off the entire shroud and just run the LDC straight on the barrel. If I still get clipping issues then I'm hogging it out to 9mm. 

The gun the OP is using does not have a suppressor or shroud so there are no stock baffles.   Suppressors do NOT usually reduce the velocity of the pellets, if you think about it, it is like extending the length of the barrel which increases velocity. I have had reports from well know gun makers who have used my suppressors on their big bore guns and they have reported a slight increase in velocity  with my suppressors on the guns tested. But as with anything, all guns are different, adding a component to a car might make it run better on one make of care and not so well on others. You just hope that they do not adversely effect the performance, Neil.

[rkr]

Hmm...that's really odd. I wonder what would be causing such wide groupings.

Have you tried going back to the stock baffles? I know they're not the greatest, but maybe worth a shot? Anything rough in the barrel? Although that should affect all ammo...not producing exceptions. What about the grub screws that secure the barrel in the block? Are those in their original positions?

I find it odd that it's limited to only one pellet. My .25 really liked the Benjamin Domes and they were local, so that's pretty much all I fed it. They were hole in hole at 30.

I have a .22 LDC that does NOT play nice with my new to me BB. I have clipping issues even after hogging out the LDC to 3/16. I'm gonna try opening it up even more to see how it'll work with the QE, although I've been told that the QEs don't play nice with LDCs.

I'm also going to experiment with my stock BB. I'm going to take off the entire shroud and just run the LDC straight on the barrel. If I still get clipping issues then I'm hogging it out to 9mm. 

Check the shoulder on the barrel that's behind the threads. It's most likely tilted a bit or has some burr and thus causes the silencer to be mis-aligned.

[KnifeMaker]

My two Neil Clagues "Always" increase accuracy. Not surprising as they help with barrel harmonics and reduce recoil. Yes Recoil. the Tallondor in .257 at 200 fpe has a bit. LOL   


Now to give you a hard time! I have a pet peeve. Do you have a TV? If so, like most folks now days, is it a widescreen? Do you turn it end on end to watch or do you like everyone else use it in a normal fashion. 

If you do indeed, watch tv in a normal fashion, why on earth do you hold your camera/phone end on end and force us to view a pic is such a ridiculous manner?

Huh? Why. Why oh why??? Turn that dayum phone around. GRRRRR!!!

[rsterne]

First of all, let me say that I am delighted that you are getting great accuracy with your LDC installed.... If the crown on your barrel is good, I do agree, however, that you should be able to get accuracy that is just as good, if not better, without the LDC.... Installing a weight on the end of your barrel that does not touch the air discharge in any way, and adjusting the position of it until you get the minimum group size should be possible.... In other words, I am suggesting that your reduction in group size is a result of reduced (or better timed) harmonics of the barrel, rather than airflow within the LDC.... JMO....

Bob

[VaporTrail]

Hmm...that's really odd. I wonder what would be causing such wide groupings.

Have you tried going back to the stock baffles? I know they're not the greatest, but maybe worth a shot? Anything rough in the barrel? Although that should affect all ammo...not producing exceptions. What about the grub screws that secure the barrel in the block? Are those in their original positions?

I find it odd that it's limited to only one pellet. My .25 really liked the Benjamin Domes and they were local, so that's pretty much all I fed it. They were hole in hole at 30.

I have a .22 LDC that does NOT play nice with my new to me BB. I have clipping issues even after hogging out the LDC to 3/16. I'm gonna try opening it up even more to see how it'll work with the QE, although I've been told that the QEs don't play nice with LDCs.

I'm also going to experiment with my stock BB. I'm going to take off the entire shroud and just run the LDC straight on the barrel. If I still get clipping issues then I'm hogging it out to 9mm. 

The gun the OP is using does not have a suppressor or shroud so there are no stock baffles.   Suppressors do NOT usually reduce the velocity of the pellets, if you think about it, it is like extending the length of the barrel which increases velocity. I have had reports from well know gun makers who have used my suppressors on their big bore guns and they have reported a slight increase in velocity  with my suppressors on the guns tested. But as with anything, all guns are different, adding a component to a car might make it run better on one make of care and not so well on others. You just hope that they do not adversely effect the performance, Neil.

To be fair, the LDC I used on my Magnum was an airsoft silencer. Worked great, honestly; my Magnum was nearly as loud a .22LR when I was breaking it in, about half as loud when it got broken in. After it was broken in, I added the LDC. Sounds like a 392 now. 

Just for giggles I used the same silencer on my 50FPE Bullboss. I ended up blowing out ALL the foam from the can. Lol...didn't work so well, that.

[Mod90]

Well you can't argue with the results.
Any idea what's the weight on that pickle?