an interesting article: "scopes, springers, and recoil"

[darryl]

Hi all,
I came across this article on the AOA blog about "scopes, springers, and recoil". Of interest to me was a point made about not putting a variable magnification scope on a springer. I thought you might find it interesting  http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/2010/03/scopes-springers-and-recoil.html

I was lead to the article by this article http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/2010/03/big-kahuna-rws-model-56-th-part-ii.html

Here is part one of that article series  http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/2010/03/big-kahuna-rws-model-56-th-part-i.html

happy reading!
darryl

[sjfrockerdude]

That was a very interesting read.
Glad you posted that, I'm proud to say that I learned something today.

[Gil]

Thanks for the article, I think I want to try that now. If nothing more than for an excuse to get a new scope for my R9 Im hoping to get it back from Gene sometime next week.

[darryl]

Glad you guys found it interesting. Me too. Now what do you suppose would be good scopes for monster springers? I understand from the article that rifles like the 54 and 56 subject a scope tremendous recoil even though for the shooter they are recoilless. I see why variable-power scope catch *(&^ from strong springers.
darryl

[Nathan]

Sorry guys I gotta raise the BS flag on this one.

"in order for a scope to be variable power,  there had to be some lenses within the scope that were free to move. When severe recoil hits those movable lenses, they can jostle around and
disturb the point of aim. If the recoil is harsh enough, it is inaccuracy just waiting to happen."

That's just plain incorrect. None of the lenses or prisms in any scope, fixed or variable are free to move. They are are braced in usually with glue. If that was the case you'd hear them rattling if you shook your scope. Turning the power ring or parralax adjuster moves the lenses closer or farther to give you magnification or remove parralax, but they are still held in place during the movement.
 When they are not properly braced for the double recoil of a spring piston rifle, they shake loose (or be free to move around inside the tube) and the scope is in effect ruined, cause focus will be lost. Many scope manufacturers only brace for the rearward recoil from powder burners, not the forward recoil that occurs at the end of the firing cycle of piston air guns.
It is true that heavier scopes (like variable power) are subject to more G's than a lighter scope. But a fixed power scope is not the cure all for air rifle scope issues he makes it out to be.
Sorry but that's BS and Jock Elliot and A of A should know better.

[darryl]

HNT5, is there a link that supports your view? I'm not contesting you one bit. But as I read one point of view on the matter, I'd like to read another to get a balanced perspective.
darryl

[Nathan]

Here's a link to a cut away diagram of a scope

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/gear/photos/scope_ill.gif

Nathan

[Nathan]

http://www.scopesguide.com/air-gun-scopes.html
It talks here about airgun rated scopes
Nathan

[Filnez]

Inside of a variable scope, there are two sets of small lenses inside the erector assembly that are moved fore and aft by a tubular cam system.  The erector tube is surrounded by another tube with two spirally cut grooves that bear on studs that are screwed into the lens carrier cells inside the erector tube.  When you turn the magnification change collar, the cam tube turns and slides those two moving lens cells to vary the magnification.  Whether this weakens a scope enough or not to make it not usable on a springer can be debatable, depending upon the quality of the scope.  One thing that does not help is that the extra lens cells, cam tube, and power ring all add weight, which is possibly a detriment to the scopes life.  A fixed power is just simply more rugged because it's less complex. 

A large amount of scope damage on spring guns comes from the reticle mount tearing loose at the base of the erector tube.  Some just aren't mounted strongly enough to take the shock and vibration. 

[darryl]

Nathan,
That article certainly clarifies you point. Thank you for posting it. It's a very good read, and a perfect counter-balance to the other POV.

Filnez, your post tends to make a case against poor quality airgun scopes. As I understand it, the inner components must be up to the task of resisting the back -and-forth shock the airgun delivers (springers, at least.).
Great stuff, guys. Much appreciated.
darryl
PS, so a really good air rifle scope name brand (known for quality) would be...?

[LongIslandArcher]

The Leapers True Strength scopes I have on my air rifles have variable magnification and hold up just fine.

[darryl]

good to know, LongIslandArcher. They are not the most expensive of scopes I've, which is good for my limited budget. What rifles are you using True Strength scopes on?
thanks,
darryl

[Nathan]

Here's Tom Gaylords test/review of Leapers scopes. Some people have had them fail, and they can and will, just like any other mass produced item. But many people myself included hve had good luck with them on spring guns.
https://www.pyramydair.com/article/They_asked_for_it_Leapers_scopes_July_2005/23

Nathan

[tjk]

Not to pick sides,... but I'm with Nathan on this issue. Air rifle scopes are rated for a reason. Best to find a scope rated for your air rifle,....check out the Straight Shooters scope recommendations. Just as there are different scopes for different powder burners, there are different scopes for Air rifles!!!! Thank Goodness too!!!!! tjk

[oldpink]

Count me in as yet another "me too" with Nathan and tjk on this one.
The article's contentions about variables really are a lot of alarmism.
It's almost as if it had been written by someone who exclusively sells fixed power airgun-rated scopes.
As long as you have a decent variable rated for springers, such as the Leapers, Centerpoints, or one of the high end makers such as Leupold or Burris, you will have NO problems at all.
Sorry, but my bullsh*t alarm was in full throat on this one.

[darryl]

Well! Let it be known that I am sternly against alarm-ism; both in my air guns and in my politics. Alarmists have unseen agendas in my view.
But this thread is causing some great information to be put out! (it's alarming!!)
darryl

[Filnez]

The last springers that I owned all had the good Japanese Beeman or Leupold scopes, so I never had a problem, but that has been a good while ago.  The Beeman and Leupolds held up fine on R-10, R-1, RX1 and Webley Vulcan, but I ended up selling those due to financial troubles fifteen years ago, and was out of airgunning for a good while.  Last year I bought a PCP, so among the newer model scopes I haven't had to find out what would really stand up to spring recoil.  I can imagine that soft poorly made parts would batter loose pretty quickly on something with substantial kick and vibration.