Why doesn't Crosman make a real .177 hollow point pellet in 10.5 grains?

[BackStop]

I know Crosman  makes the Piranha .177 in 10.5 grains, but my experience with them is that they are iffy on accuracy.

I have always attributed that to the "gimmicky design".   


Crosman does make a *normal* HP in 7.9 grains, but not in 10.5 grains.

The 7.9 HP does not perform well for my guns.   Neither does any pellet in that weight range in my AGs.   


The Freedoms like a heavy for caliber pellet.   At least mine do.


Anyway, I just don't understand why Crosman doesn't make a *real* or *normal* hollow point for .177 in 10.5 grains.

OKay, off of my rant now...  (smile)

[Hoosier Daddy]

Kerry,
 Have you tried the CPUM's?
While they are domed not hollow point, in my experience the Ultra Magnum 10.5 is one of their better pellets in slowing down a hard shooting .177. (Beeman RS2 Dual Cal)
Do you really see a benefit of a H.P.?
Any I have retrieved just flatten out and are shaped like a wad-cutter on impact, not "open up" like a P.B. hollow point.

[BackStop]

Kerry,
 Have you tried the CPUM's?
While they are domed not hollow point, in my experience the Ultra Magnum 10.5 is one of their better pellets in slowing down a hard shooting .177. (Beeman RS2 Dual Cal)
Do you really see a benefit of a H.P.?
Any I have retrieved just flatten out and are shaped like a wad-cutter on impact, not "open up" like a P.B. hollow point.

Scott, the CPUMs and brown box 10.5 gr equivalent are what I use.   Just bought 10 brown boxes of those.

I don't know if there would be any benefit because they don't exist in 10.5/.177

The Piranhas are not *really* bad for accuracy in my guns, but they ARE a gimmick and I believe that gimmick is what makes them less accurate than the domes.

I believe the gimmicky *teeth* of the Piranha are what makes it less accurate.   I believe a *normal* hollow point in 10.5 would not only be more accurate,

but would also expand better.

Oh well... it's not like Crosman is going to listen to me.   I also emailed them with the suggestion that they add a simple and CHEAP plastic bag to the brown boxes to stop the massive pellet spillage happening there.

What do you want to bet that when I receive the 10 boxes of 1250 pellets that they will STILL be spilling out and there will be no cheap plastic bag to stop it?

I actually counted 4 boxes a while back and the worst one was missing 189 pellets.   I forget what the average loss was, but it was more than what should be acceptable.

Geez... I am tired.   Insomnia set in three days ago and I think I am exhausted enough now to get some sleep...   then again, maybe not for a while yet.  (heavy sigh)

Thanks for the reply!

[Hoosier Daddy]

Yep, I have one tin of Piranhas and I have no rifle that likes them. It has been 1/2 full for over 2 years. 

Good luck on sleep, seems like I just nap anymore myself.

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Yep, I have one tin of Piranhas and I have no rifle that likes them. It has been 1/2 full for over 2 years. 

Good luck on sleep, seems like I just nap anymore myself.

Hi Scott !    I'm up too.   

The Crosman Piranha's make for good hunting pellets in my 22 cal rifles.

I don't think the teeth on the Piranha's are a gimmick.

They cut thru bone really well and they do mushroom out some.

I use them small game up to Raccoon size and they will cut through the chest and shoulder areas

They seem to work best for me in my higher powered break barrel rifles, out to around... 20 to 40 yards.. or so.

Here are some 2017 hunting posts where I was using the piranhas.

#1. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139086.msg1398708#msg1398708

#2. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=135263.msg1349909#msg1349909

#3. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=142805.msg1445649#msg1445649



Best Wishes - Tom

[BackStop]

Yep, I have one tin of Piranhas and I have no rifle that likes them. It has been 1/2 full for over 2 years. 

Good luck on sleep, seems like I just nap anymore myself.

I only started using the Piranhas because they were the only *heavy* .177 available locally.   I can't even buy tinned 10.5 domed Crosman locally!   Not even at Walmart.

I actually thought they were pretty accurate (I only had the Crosman Fire/F4 at the time) until I bought the Nova Freedoms and tried the 10.5 domed pellets.

I was a believer in the domes right away.   WAY!!! fewer flyers and accuracy in general  much better than the Piranhas.

It was the first pellet that I was truly able to put at least 3 pellets in the same hole at 10 meters/11 yards.   The hole looked like I had only shot it once.

For ME, that was unusual and EXCELLENT!!!

To be honest, I had never before and haven't since been able to even come close to that sort of accuracy.   

[Frank in Fairfield]

You can always drill a small cavity into them like we used to do with our lead .357 Magnums..

[JeffB1961]

since crosman pellets are so hard and take so much power to expand just a little bit if at all , would a 10.5 HP have any real effect over 10.5 dome ?

jump to a little past 12 mins for the expansion results .

[rsterne]

Crosman's Premier HP is pretty much a joke.... That tiny dimple doesn't cause any real expansion unless your impact velocity is well into the 900s.... mostly because the alloy they use is too hard.... JSB will likely bring out the Hades in .177 soon, and it it's as good as the .22 cal version, your problem should be solved....

Bob

[Motorhead]

Good test never the less ...
Am surprised the Polymag was not included in the testing

[Back_Roads]

 Poly mag, terminators, destroyers are a ballistic tip not HP ?

[BackStop]

Crosman's Premier HP is pretty much a joke.... That tiny dimple doesn't cause any real expansion unless your impact velocity is well into the 900s.... mostly because the alloy they use is too hard.... JSB will likely bring out the Hades in .177 soon, and it it's as good as the .22 cal version, your problem should be solved....

Bob

Thanks Bob, I'll have to keep an eye out for those!

[nced]

I know Crosman  makes the Piranha .177 in 10.5 grains, but my experience with them is that they are iffy on accuracy.

I have always attributed that to the "gimmicky design".   


Crosman does make a *normal* HP in 7.9 grains, but not in 10.5 grains.

The 7.9 HP does not perform well for my guns.   Neither does any pellet in that weight range in my AGs.   


The Freedoms like a heavy for caliber pellet.   At least mine do.


Anyway, I just don't understand why Crosman doesn't make a *real* or *normal* hollow point for .177 in 10.5 grains.

OKay, off of my rant now...  (smile)

Well........years ago I tried all sorts of different hollow point pellet brands and found that (even for squirrel hunting) a good accurate dome was the best choice.

Anywhoo.......my experience with .177 & .20 cal hollow points was that the accuracy was poor past 25 yards for all. Matter of fact, I found that the rather heavy 9.3 grain .177 RWS SuperMag wad cutter worked better than any of the hollow points I tried and the SuperMag actually held accuracy pretty good out to 35 yards from my R9..........

[BackStop]

I know Crosman  makes the Piranha .177 in 10.5 grains, but my experience with them is that they are iffy on accuracy.

I have always attributed that to the "gimmicky design".   


Crosman does make a *normal* HP in 7.9 grains, but not in 10.5 grains.

The 7.9 HP does not perform well for my guns.   Neither does any pellet in that weight range in my AGs.   


The Freedoms like a heavy for caliber pellet.   At least mine do.


Anyway, I just don't understand why Crosman doesn't make a *real* or *normal* hollow point for .177 in 10.5 grains.

OKay, off of my rant now...  (smile)

Well........years ago I tried all sorts of different hollow point pellet brands and found that (even for squirrel hunting) a good accurate dome was the best choice.

Anywhoo.......my experience with .177 & .20 cal hollow points was that the accuracy was poor past 25 yards for all. Matter of fact, I found that the rather heavy 9.3 grain .177 RWS SuperMag wad cutter worked better than any of the hollow points I tried and the SuperMag actually held accuracy pretty good out to 35 yards from my R9..........

Ed, I shoot CPUMs and the brown box equivalents for the very reason you suggest.   They are the most accurate out of my guns.

I also only shoot them at ~730fps because I don't need pass through or ricochet  in my back yard.

If I do my part, there is no problem getting DRT kills on tree rats and such.

[anti-squirrel]

All my .177 airguns have  notable preference for RWS wadcutters over everything, excepting my MRodAir Varmint and "Artemis" PP700.  Both of those are SPA guns.  The Varmint likes HEAVY pellets, but I'll add that Skenco UltraShocks and JSB Ultra Shocks work amazing. 

You want a serious hollow-point?  Go with either type of UltraShock/Ultra Shock.  My CZ-634 even likes them, but the one tree-rat I shot in the head using th CZ-634/JSB Ultra Shock combination lost half his skull despite a lowly 10 FPE@muzzle power level ( got him right at the back of the left orbital and WHAT A MESS!).  I don't use them in the CZ any more because the Ultra Shocks make too big a mess.  The slight change from 10 to 14 FPE (in my PP700) makes a world of difference in skull damage- the results of which were VERY contrary to what I expected.  More of a DRT-no-matter-what versus acrobatic-dead-squirrel-dance.


I'll further qualify and add that my PP700 likes almost everything I stuff into the breech.  It groups everything accurately except Destroyers and Piranhas.


Also, I recommend Coal Fenix Domes.  Without a doubt the most lethal dome around.  They have a trailing-lip edge that makes even the P-17 a lethal chipmunk-gitter.  I have a spare Crosman 15" (cut down 18-incher) barrel on my 760 and it loves the Coal Fenix domes.

Parting note: I would love to see some .25 wadcutters, as well as some heavy-weight wadcutters (11 to 12 gr range in .177) for short-range pesting.

[rsterne]

I agree that almost all the HPs designs I have tried are nowhere near as accurate as JSB Exacts.... One exception was a 10 FPE Springer that preferred the RWS 7.1 gr. Super Hollow Points over everything else.... but even in that gun, past 35 yards the 7.3 gr. Exact Express equaled them.... The results being reported on the new JSB Hades pellets seem to be the exception, although I haven't had the opportunity to stretch the distance on them yet.... but others are reporting that the .22 cal. 15.9 gr., which is basically an 18.1 gr. Heavy with the new petaled HP nose, shoot right alongside their RN parent.... but hit a LOT harder.... I hope that is the case, if so I have found my new Grouse pellet.... I have had moderate success with the H&N Hunter and Hunter Extreme pellets, about the same accuracy as the Baracudas…. but none of them matched JSB Heavies for accuracy in any of my guns....

Bob

[moorepower]

Yep, I have one tin of Piranhas and I have no rifle that likes them. It has been 1/2 full for over 2 years. 

Good luck on sleep, seems like I just nap anymore myself.

I have tried them in every airgun I own, "too many" and they are by far, as in shotgun by far the worst pellet I have ever shot. "IF" I was shooting rats at 10yds or under they might hit the rat, most of the time, possibly.

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Yep, I have one tin of Piranhas and I have no rifle that likes them. It has been 1/2 full for over 2 years. 

Good luck on sleep, seems like I just nap anymore myself.

I have tried them in every airgun I own, "too many" and they are by far, as in shotgun by far the worst pellet I have ever shot. "IF" I was shooting rats at 10yds or under they might hit the rat, most of the time, possibly.

Gee Whiz Scott & morepower....I must be an exception when it comes to Crosman piranha pellets.
The 22 cal. Crosman Piranha's shoot really well in the Summit Ranger that I have.
They are my 1st choice in a hunting pellet when I want accuracy, deep penetration, at the cost of somewhat less expansion.
The accuracy with them is within a quarter out to 40 yards and dime sized groups at 20 yards.
In that rifle I will shoot Gamo Red Fires for maximum expansion along with comparable accuracy.

In the both the 22 cal Hatsan Vortex Edge and the 117 cal. Hatsan Vortex Striker, the Crosman Destroyers & H&N Terminators work VERY Well.
Those pellets deliver deep penetration ...and... expansion along with a reasonable accuracy of  quarter sized shot groups out to 40 yards

I choose my pellets based on hunting performance and accuracy.
I don't target shoot much at all..... but ...I do a lot of air gun hunting....especially in severe winter conditions.


Best Wishes - Tom

[moorepower]

Yep, I have one tin of Piranhas and I have no rifle that likes them. It has been 1/2 full for over 2 years. 

Good luck on sleep, seems like I just nap anymore myself.

I have tried them in every airgun I own, "too many" and they are by far, as in shotgun by far the worst pellet I have ever shot. "IF" I was shooting rats at 10yds or under they might hit the rat, most of the time, possibly.

Gee Whiz Scott & morepower....I must be an exception when it comes to Crosman piranha pellets.
The 22 cal. Crosman Piranha's shoot really well in the Summit Ranger that I have.
They are my 1st choice in a hunting pellet when I want accuracy, deep penetration, at the cost of somewhat less expansion.
The accuracy with them is within a quarter out to 40 yards and dime sized groups at 20 yards.
In that rifle I will shoot Gamo Red Fires for maximum expansion along with comparable accuracy.

In the both the 22 cal Hatsan Vortex Edge and the 117 cal. Hatsan Vortex Striker, the Crosman Destroyers & H&N Terminators work VERY Well.
Those pellets deliver deep penetration ...and... expansion along with a reasonable accuracy of  quarter sized shot groups out to 40 yards

I choose my pellets based on hunting performance and accuracy.
I don't target shoot much at all..... but ...I do a lot of air gun hunting....especially in severe winter conditions.


Best Wishes - Tom

Honestly I have only tried them in an XS60 PCP, Disco, 1322, 2240,2400, Marauder, AT44, Prod and Urban, so it's probably just my barrels. It's "possible" if I had tried them at 5 or 10 yards they would have been "OK", but at 25yds. , they were shotgun groups. I just tried them in .22 however.

[Eddie_E]

Has anybody tried the Winnie hollow points in the lower powered guns? It looks like they bought out the mold from Beeman. I used to shoot the gold anodized version from Beeman in my old Shadow 1000 many years ago.