Can a scope be zeroed with usual shooting stance?

[Damo666]

I've just fitted a scope to my 2250XL and am ready to get it zeroed/sighted in soon.

Watching YouTube clips about zeroing scopes, I've not seen anybody doing it with the rifle in the standard shooting position either sat down or stood up. Everyone is sat at a bench and resting the front & rear of the gun on a cushion, tripod, or something similar.

So, can these be zeroed in without all this, and just done sat down or stood up in the usual shooting manner? IE stood up, looking through the scope.

Surely if the cross hair is on the target & you can keep it there all's good?

Also, my rifle is around 8ft/ib, so am I right in thinking it's capable of Rodent killing upto around 15 > 20 m - so get it zeroed in at say 15m for accuracy?

[JeffB1961]

if you're steady enough do it standing or however you like . i know i'm not as steady free handed as i am supported .

[mobilehomer]

The zero WILL be different for each stance. Sight it in from a steady bench rest, first. Then see for yourself how much difference there is. If it better for you, then fine tune the zero.

[subscriber]

Hi Damian,

People who insist that zeroing sights must be done from a bench can't shoot standing up .  Sure; if we are talking 100 or 200 yards (highly unlikely with an airgun), then start of a bench.  However, if we are talking 10 to 25 yards for the initial zero, by all means shoot from your favorite position.

If you are shooting a spring air rifle, the zero when standing and when resting off a bench can be very different.  If most of the shots you care about are standing or sitting, then zero your sights in those positions.  The technique is to "call your shots", and disregard any that you know you screwed up.  Use the average position of shots you feel good about to zero your sights.

After shooting for a while with a given zero, you might feel the need to refine the point of impact.  Also, if you use different pellets, you may notice that they not only shoot higher of lower, but often to one side of the pellets you used for your zero.  This is usually due to the effect of vibration and a change in the timing of pellet release from the muzzle.  At longer ranges changes in pellet velocity are going to show more or less drop, but different pellets can shift groups even at only 10 yards due to vibration in the system.

Some sideways offset in your sights or scope is due to angular error.  Some of it may be due to the sightline actually not being directly above the bore, but offset to the slide slightly.  The latter errors are usually small, compared to canting the rifle, or having mounted the scope, such that the crosshairs are not true vertical and horizontal.

Certainly, diagnosing errors in sight mounting would be easier from a bench, than while standing because yo can better eliminate cant errors.

Don't forget parallax setting with a scope.  If you are shooting worse with a scope at short range than with open sights, it may be that your scope needs to be parallax adjusted.  If you use a fixed parallax scope you may be worse off at 25 yards or closer; unless it is a dedicated airgun scope...

Shooting with too much magnification from a unrested position will often make you shoot worse than with open sights.  This is because unless you have a lot of practice, the magnification will created feedback that increases your wobble as you try harder to eliminate it...

I can see better with a scope, but prefer shooting with open sights.  Or with a scope that dials down to a true 1X.  Now, I am not sure if such exist that also are parallax adjustable down to 10 yards for airguns. 

Zeroing distance depends on your preference.  It is affected by height the center of the scope is above the barrel bore:  If your scope is mounted 2" above the bore line and you want to also shoot rodents at 10 yards, then then you are going to shoot low with a 15 yard zero; unless you aim above the target.  This is fine, if you know how much to hold over.  A 10 yard zero with such a scope will probably have you shoot very high at 20 yards, but bang on a 30.

Open sights tend to be very close to the bore line, and are more user friendly for a "one zero fits all" strategy, at close to medium range.

There is some good info out there are the "best zero range".  Find that, then see if it makes sense to you.  For instance:















More at:  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=advantages+of+different+zero+distances+air+rifle
.

[fwbsport]

^That!

I shoot ONLY off hand with all my rifles and I zeroed them in standing up using 25 yards as the range.  You can see where your shots end up and keep watching while adjusting 4 clicks (1/4 MOA X 4 clicks is supposed to me an inch at whatever but just go slowly to the left or right when seeing it's too far to the side). 

[AKM]

Always sight in from a steady rest. This helps to eliminate as much human error as possible and creates the rifles "mechanical zero".

A point of impact change afterwords only means your shooting fundamentals are dropping off shooting offhand (pulling to one side or the other and/or pulling downward). This happens to everyone to some degree.

If you sight in offhand only you may be compensating for poor shooting fundamentals and may never achieve a true mechanical zero.

[Bayman]

Wow! Subscriber. That was an excellent excellent response. That should be made a sticky.

[dan_house]

AKM has it....

Initial sight in from the bench, then make the needed adjsutment when you go off hand.  Far easier and faster  than doing just from the offhand stance

[subscriber]

Always sight in from a steady rest. This helps to eliminate as much human error as possible and creates the rifles "mechanical zero".

If you sight in offhand only you may be compensating for poor shooting fundamentals and may never achieve a true mechanical zero.

I missed that the OP's airgun is CO2 powered.  That can be sighted in off the bench without worries.  The only potential bugbear is that its velocity will be lower if it is cold out.  And, velocity will drop if shot multiple times in quick succession.

If the holy grail of a "true mechanical zero existed", then you would not even have to sight in off the bench, because the airgun would arrive from the factory, shooting spot on.  It would do this with all types and weights of pellets too  .   

What you are doing when sighting in is compensating for a lack of true mechanical zero; due to tolerances between parts; and to some extent, vibration in the system when firing.  The more powerful the airgun, the more vibration will tend to affect point of impact. 

What ultimately matters is the ability to consistently land pellets near enough to your point of aim.  If you are shooting between 10 and 20 yards without adjusting sights, then any offset required needs to be practiced until it becomes second nature.   

[subscriber]

AKM has it....

Initial sight in from the bench, then make the needed adjsutment when you go off hand.  Far easier and faster  than doing just from the offhand stance

Actually, AKM frowns on adjusting the sights for shooting offhand, because you "would be compensating for poor technique". 

I wonder what he does when he is forced to change pellet brands, types or weights due to his true mechanical zero pellet supply running out?  Practice shooting new pellets, until they land on his original true mechanical zero? 

Listen to advice.  Understand why it is given.  Understand your system.  Become consistent with it.  Then set your sights any way that makes sense to you. 

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

Listen to advice.  Understand why it is given.  Understand your system.  Become consistent with it.  Then set your sights any way that makes sense to you.
[/quote]

Amen!!!

[AKM]

When I change pellet weight/size I check my zero and adjust the scope accordingly (if needed).

Thats what those dials on the top and side of the scope with the little numbers are for, amazing.

Adjusting your sights with an offset to compensate for poor offhand shooting skills is counterproductive to overall accuracy.

[subscriber]

Adjusting your sights with an offset to compensate for poor offhand shooting skills is counterproductive to overall accuracy.

You are assuming poor offhand shooting skills; producing poor "accuracy":

With a PCP or CO2 airgun, I would expect a difference in precision (group size), but not a difference in accuracy (group placement) between a cushioned bench and offhand shooting. 

With a 12 to 20 ft.lb springer, I expect not only a difference in group size, but also placement.  Except in this instance, shooting of the bench often produces not only shifted groups, but larger groups than offhand.  So, zeroing offhand becomes the standard because it offers greater precision.  This is the main reason why some people can't hit anything with springers:  They zero off the bench; are disgusted with the large groups; and can never "shoot well enough" to make that zero valid for any other position.

Adjusting your sights with an offset is what you do, when you pick one zero for a span of distance; such as 10 to 20 yards.  Deliberately aiming a little high or low to hit the desired point of impact then becomes proper technique.  A skill, as opposed to a lack of skill.  Hitting a small spot off a bench from a fixed distance is an equipment check, rather than a demonstration of skill, or a practice that will build skill.  Figuring out how to shoot from field position will build skill.  This is a process; not a light switch. 

If one is smart, you won't exceed your ability to shoot with live animals, by staying within the distance you can acceptable place shots.  The only way to extend your ability, is to exceed it; and to practice it.  On paper, or with inanimate targets at first, until you have the skill to land your pellet within some fraction of an inch of where it needs to be, depending on the animal involved.  If we are talking rat skull, then 1/4" radius or 1/2" group.  Rat lungs, then 1/2" radius or 1" group.  1/2" groups offhand at 20 yards will take real skill.  So, field expedient rests are always useful, where your body is placed against the rest, not the rifle.

There is no substitute for practice.  To build skill and confidence.

[lefteyeshot]

Zero off a bench. Why make it harder and probably not as precise. First time I have heard of anyone zeroing standing.

[BackStop]

I'll have to side with zeroing a scope from a bench or at least some sort of stable rest.   The idea is to get the scope zeroed to the gun first!

Making sure that the scope is actually zeroed to the gun first makes it much easier to adjust for human error/idiosyncrasies when shooting without a rest later.

At least you know it IS you and not the gun/scope.

[subscriber]

First time I have heard of anyone zeroing standing.

That is because you have too many airguns

Seriously, if you have that many airguns and actually shoot all of them in rotation, then you probably won't develop the skill with any particular one required to zero it standing.  And it won't matter, because you would assume any deviation from bench zero is your fault.  I am also going to wager that most of your shots are taken off the bench...

I also have too many airguns, but only shoot one or two over any given month.  There are few I have not taken out in years...

Another reason why people don't zero offhand is because they are using high magnification scopes.  These exaggerate wobble so much that they give up on shooting offhand. Here, kit that supposedly improves accuracy is hurting it.  So, I grant you this:  If you can't shoot offhand, you can't zero offhand.

[subscriber]

I'll have to side with zeroing a scope from a bench or at least some sort of stable rest.   The idea is to get the scope zeroed to the gun first!

Making sure that the scope is actually zeroed to the gun first makes it much easier to adjust for human error/idiosyncrasies when shooting without a rest later.

At least you know it IS you and not the gun/scope.

I have no problem with this, because you acknowledge the idea and allow the zero to be refined for offhand shooting later.

I must be an odd one, then.  I almost never shoot off a rest.  Can shoot 1" groups offhand at 25 yards with decent kit and a bit of practice.  So, I start setting sights at 10 yards offhand because that is a distance I can shoot at, day or night.  If I had the need to shoot rats at 50 yards, I would find an expedient rest - after determining the correct drop compensation on paper for that range. 

[BackStop]

I'll have to side with zeroing a scope from a bench or at least some sort of stable rest.   The idea is to get the scope zeroed to the gun first!

Making sure that the scope is actually zeroed to the gun first makes it much easier to adjust for human error/idiosyncrasies when shooting without a rest later.

At least you know it IS you and not the gun/scope.

I have no problem with this, because you acknowledge the idea and allow the zero to be refined for offhand shooting later.

I must be an odd one, then.  I almost never shoot off a rest.  Can shoot 1" groups offhand at 25 yards with decent kit and a bit of practice.  So, I start setting sights at 10 yards offhand because that is a distance I can shoot at, day or night.  If I had the need to shoot rats at 50 yards, I would find an expedient rest - after determining the correct drop compensation on paper for that range.

When I was a lot younger, I might have been like you.   Now, I simply can't hold a rifle steady enough off hand.   Even at 10 yards, it is iffy, but then again, I don't practice off hand anymore.

I know my limitations and I require a rest of some sort.   However, I don't have a "bench rest" to sight-in/zero scopes.   I use whatever is handy which is usually a small step ladder and a cushion or 3 placed in the appropriate place.

I wish I could post some pictures of me shooting out of my window when the tree rats stay in the tree tops and don't come down to the ground for the "easy" shots.  (chuckle)

I am on the floor and contorted uncomfortably and the AG is resting on the step ladder.   However, I have gotten pretty good shooting like that.  (smile)

[subscriber]

However, I don't have a "bench rest" to sight-in/zero scopes.   I use whatever is handy which is usually a small step ladder and a cushion or 3 placed in the appropriate place.

I think what you said is the perfect answer for the original poster:  Improvise a rest to establish a starting point.  Then take it from there.  The OP would not ask about zeroing offhand, if he had and actual bench.  He does not want to hear, invest in a permanent stable shooting bench, or all your efforts will be for naught...  And I don't blame him.

Here, I improvised a rest; but only because I was trying to provide a more objective evaluation for a given cheap pellet, using a pistol at 10 yards.  That halved my unpracticed groups; despite being "field expedient", rather than "bench" steady.  This pistol "kit" is certainly capable of sub 1/2" groups at 10 yards, off a real bench rest:  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=163154.msg155822478#msg155822478

By the way, I see Pyramyd are still selling those H&N wadcutter pellets at $4.50 per 500:  https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-excite-econ-ii-4-5mm-7-4gr-airgun-pellets-500ct?p=1526

The OP has not been back.  All this talk about a bench rest zero being imperative must have scared him off

[Yogi]

I'll have to side with zeroing a scope from a bench or at least some sort of stable rest.   The idea is to get the scope zeroed to the gun first!

Making sure that the scope is actually zeroed to the gun first makes it much easier to adjust for human error/idiosyncrasies when shooting without a rest later.

At least you know it IS you and not the gun/scope.

I have no problem with this, because you acknowledge the idea and allow the zero to be refined for offhand shooting later.

I must be an odd one, then.  I almost never shoot off a rest.  Can shoot 1" groups offhand at 25 yards with decent kit and a bit of practice.  So, I start setting sights at 10 yards offhand because that is a distance I can shoot at, day or night.  If I had the need to shoot rats at 50 yards, I would find an expedient rest - after determining the correct drop compensation on paper for that range.

One inch groups at 25 yards is not very good.  With a good gun this should be 1/2 inch groups.  With a scope, rested it could be 1/2 inch groups.
Since you are not concerned with match type accuracy, sight in however you dan well please....

-Y