Scope for Regal XL Backyard Silhouette Practice @ 25 & 50y

[DrGunner]

Hey gang- 45 years experience with shooting, but I’m a total NOOB with PCP air rifles. Following the recommendations of the great people here, I am now the proud owner of a Daystate Huntsman Regal XL in .177. I am going to use it for backyard practice for my main discipline- .22 rimfire NRA smallbore silhouette.
My current silhouette scopes are:

*Leupold VX3i 6.5-20x40 EFR
*Leupold FX3 30X
*Two Sightron SII Big Sky 6-24x42 AO silhouette scopes

I’m looking for something with the following parameters:

>4-16X range or thereabouts

>Side Focus

>Preferably with a 1” tube, but 30mm will do if I have to

>Weight below 20oz, preferably 18oz or less

> No IR necessary, in fact I prefer without-

I have noticed that the Hawke scopes are widely represented in the Airgun world.
Please educate me about them-how good are they?
Where are they made?
Is there a price threshold where they get better?

I have my share of 800–1000 $ scopes, was hoping to keep this purchase under $500.

Fire away-

Thanks in advance-

DrGunner

[mobilehomer]

First thing, forget the term "air gun scope". You are dealing with a PCP with none of the scope killing double recoil of a springer. ANY scope you like will work. The scopes you have are great. Go to Academy Sports, Cabela's, Bass Pro or other store that carries a good selection and compare them side by side. Any that you would use on your .22 RF will work just fine.

[Eddie_E]

This is what I'm buying this week. https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/discovery-optics-vt-z-4-16x44-sf-first-focal-plane-with-new-side-focus-wheel-rifle-scope

I am using the second focal plane version of the same model right now and It has been really nice and ranges surprisingly well for the cheap price.
I'm shooting with hold over as opposed to clicking, so if you prefer clicking for windage, a higher model from Discovery might have more precise turrets.  Mine seems fine for me though and the glass is equal to most of my friends $400 scopes I've tried.

The reason I'm not getting another of the same one I have is because I want to try out a first focal plane reticle and because I like the new cam shaped side wheel better than the round wheel.  Te round wheel on my VT-Z 4-16x44 doesn't have enough room to re-mark the yardage easily and I want it precise to within 2 yards for Hunter field target.

[Dairyboy]

I too would check out the Discovery scope line at either Airgun Optics Plus or Airgun Archery Fun. Great scopes for the money and many airgunners have been choosing them over other brands as for the money there the best bang for the buck. The whole 18oz thing is the hard part. But out of many airguns I've owned and sold, I bought 6 Discovery scopes, a few UTGs an Athlon BTR, and some SWFAs (really really like the SWFAs) and the only ones to stay were my Discovery's minus 1 as a guy wanted the scope with the gun.

[DrGunner]

First thing, forget the term "air gun scope". You are dealing with a PCP with none of the scope killing double recoil of a springer. ANY scope you like will work. The scopes you have are great. Go to Academy Sports, Cabela's, Bass Pro or other store that carries a good selection and compare them side by side. Any that you would use on your .22 RF will work just fine.

Yeah-  I figured as much on the recoil. In fact, one of my Sightron silhouette scopes is on it currently for initial dial in, but I took it off of a very accurate rimfire rifle that has worn that scope for 3 years; I have dope settings for all 4 distances of silhouette in 3 different temperature ranges, so I’d like to put it back.
Besides,  those scopes are set up for, and excel at ranges between 40 - 100 m and beyond. For the backyard, I’ll only be shooting at 25 & 50 yards, and don’t need to “waste” the reliable tracking on my current scopes for the Regal.
I’m looking for something with a little bit less magnification so I do not scavenge from my current collection. Make sense?

[mobilehomer]

Makes perfect sense.

[DrGunner]

This is what I'm buying this week. https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/discovery-optics-vt-z-4-16x44-sf-first-focal-plane-with-new-side-focus-wheel-rifle-scope

I am using the second focal plane version of the same model right now and It has been really nice and ranges surprisingly well for the cheap price.
I'm shooting with hold over as opposed to clicking, so if you prefer clicking for windage, a higher model from Discovery might have more precise turrets.  Mine seems fine for me though and the glass is equal to most of my friends $400 scopes I've tried.

The reason I'm not getting another of the same one I have is because I want to try out a first focal plane reticle and because I like the new cam shaped side wheel better than the round wheel.  Te round wheel on my VT-Z 4-16x44 doesn't have enough room to re-mark the yardage easily and I want it precise to within 2 yards for Hunter field target.

Eddie-  I Gotta say that looks like a perfect scope for me, but a 50mm objective might look like a Hubble on my regal. The weight of 22 ounces is a bit high, but currently my Regal with 17oz Sightron scope weighs 8 lbs. 4 oz., so I have four extra ounces to play with and still stay within the 8.5 lb limit in the NRA rules. What distances are you shooting that you require holdover? Do you think I will need a significant amount of holdover or clicks between 25 and 50 yards?
I will not be switching between the two frequently, more like I will zero and shoot at 25 for a few sessions, then I might zero and shoot at 50 for a few sessions.

[Dairyboy]

4-14x44 but it's 20oz

https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/new-optic-sight-scope-discovery-high-quality-tactical-riflescope-hs-4-14x44sf-waterproof-and-shockproof-rifle-scope-for-hunting

[DrGunner]

I too would check out the Discovery scope line at either Airgun Optics Plus or Airgun Archery Fun. Great scopes for the money and many airgunners have been choosing them over other brands as for the money there the best bang for the buck. The whole 18oz thing is the hard part. But out of many airguns I've owned and sold, I bought 6 Discovery scopes, a few UTGs an Athlon BTR, and some SWFAs (really really like the SWFAs) and the only ones to stay were my Discovery's minus 1 as a guy wanted the scope with the gun.

 I just bookmarked it for later study!

Thanks, guys - you da best!

Keep the suggestions coming.

I’m currently considering a Weaver Grand Slam 4-16 X 44 Side Focus. It’s only 11 inches long and weighs 16 ounces.  A good friend owns one and is going to ship it to me to test it out. I have done this whole process a couple dozen times, always a hassle but always a lot of fun at the same time. I’ve kind of gotten spoiled by my current silhouette scopes, but I do have some Muellers that I use on my rimfires that are exceptional scopes for the money so I am not above looking hard at scopes like Discovery, nothing wrong with buying an inexpensive scope and if it is not up to snuff for my current purpose, I can always mount it on one of my kids rifles.

Respectfully, 

DrGunner

[Eddie_E]

This is what I'm buying this week. https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/discovery-optics-vt-z-4-16x44-sf-first-focal-plane-with-new-side-focus-wheel-rifle-scope

Eddie-  I Gotta say that looks like a perfect scope for me, but a 50mm objective might look like a Hubble on my regal. The weight of 22 ounces is a bit high, but currently my Regal with 17oz Sightron scope weighs 8 lbs. 4 oz., so I have four extra ounces to play with and still stay within the 8.5 lb limit in the NRA rules. What distances are you shooting that you require holdover? Do you think I will need a significant amount of holdover or clicks between 25 and 50 yards?
I will not be switching between the two frequently, more like I will zero and shoot at 25 for a few sessions, then I might zero and shoot at 50 for a few sessions.

Most of my shooting is between 15~60 yards. My Buccaneer is basically the slightly cheaper British version of what you bought.
 I usually sight in for a Zero at 20 and 38 yards. I holdover 1.5 mil @10 yards, 1 mil @13yds,  top of the "X"ring @15yds.  I hold under .5 from 30~35 yds and hold over 1 mil@50 and close to 2 mils @60 yds. You should get roughly the same with JSB 18.13 gr pellets. I'm using a little lighter pellets, but I'm also de-tuned  to 20 FPE for a competition limit. I shoot a lot at 16X because I shoot dime size groups at 40 yds when I'm shooting well and quarter size groups when I'm shooting bad (from a rest or bucket and sticks).  I also range my targets using parallax, so 16X works well. I dial back to 12X for off-hand or close range.

I wish I had a trajectory chart to post, hopefully somebody who has a chart will post it.

[mr007s]

Vortex Diamondback tatical, Athlon Taus.

[Yogi]

For airguns you really need an adjustable objective scope.  This rules out most rimfire scopes.
Hawke scopes are all pretty good,  I don't know anybody who says they are GREAT.  Just good, with a terrific warranty.
Any Hawke scope above the Vantage line will suit your needs just fine. 
Yes pellets drop a lot between 25 and 50 yards.   You need a scope with reticle sub tensions.

-Y

[DrGunner]

4-14x44 but it's 20oz

https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/new-optic-sight-scope-discovery-high-quality-tactical-riflescope-hs-4-14x44sf-waterproof-and-shockproof-rifle-scope-for-hunting

Im really hoping to find a suitable 4-16X scope with a 1” tube. The scope position and therefore the height of the rings that I use need to mimic my Anschutz 1712 as closely as possible.

I mounted a Sightron SII Big Sky 6-24x42 AO Silhouette scope on the Regal for now, with D3 Precision 1.5” tall rings. The rifle is a great fit with those rings. They’re available anodized in black on eBay for $50 plus shipping.
The D3 Precision rings are not available in 30 mm at this time, but the guy who designed them told me that they should be available by late November or early December, but even then he will not have the 1.5 inch height.
So therefore, if I want to run a 30mm tube and match the height of my competition rifle, I will have to use rings made by Morr Accuracy.
It’s not a deal breaker, just costly and time consuming- I know because I’ve done it.

DrGunner

[DrGunner]

This is what I'm buying this week. https://airgunopticsplus.com/collections/scopes/products/discovery-optics-vt-z-4-16x44-sf-first-focal-plane-with-new-side-focus-wheel-rifle-scope

Eddie-  I Gotta say that looks like a perfect scope for me, but a 50mm objective might look like a Hubble on my regal. The weight of 22 ounces is a bit high, but currently my Regal with 17oz Sightron scope weighs 8 lbs. 4 oz., so I have four extra ounces to play with and still stay within the 8.5 lb limit in the NRA rules. What distances are you shooting that you require holdover? Do you think I will need a significant amount of holdover or clicks between 25 and 50 yards?
I will not be switching between the two frequently, more like I will zero and shoot at 25 for a few sessions, then I might zero and shoot at 50 for a few sessions.

Most of my shooting is between 15~60 yards. My Buccaneer is basically the slightly cheaper British version of what you bought.
 I usually sight in for a Zero at 20 and 38 yards. I holdover 1.5 mil @10 yards, 1 mil @13yds,  top of the "X"ring @15yds.  I hold under .5 from 30~35 yds and hold over 1 mil@50 and close to 2 mils @60 yds. You should get roughly the same with JSB 18.13 gr pellets. I'm using a little lighter pellets, but I'm also de-tuned  to 20 FPE for a competition limit. I shoot a lot at 16X because I shoot dime size groups at 40 yds when I'm shooting well and quarter size groups when I'm shooting bad (from a rest or bucket and sticks).  I also range my targets using parallax, so 16X works well. I dial back to 12X for off-hand or close range.

I wish I had a trajectory chart to post, hopefully somebody who has a chart will post it.

Eddie- I’m assuming you’re shooting a .22, w/18.13gr pellets. My Regal is .177. I guess I’ll have to do some testing to see what’s what-
I already mounted a Sightron 6-24 scope, so I can do a decent amount of testing @ 25 & 50, then decide whether tracking matters or holdover will suffice. Thanks for the detailed reply-

DrG

[DrGunner]

For airguns you really need an adjustable objective scope.  This rules out most rimfire scopes.
Hawke scopes are all pretty good,  I don't know anybody who says they are GREAT.  Just good, with a terrific warranty.
Any Hawke scope above the Vantage line will suit your needs just fine. 
Yes pellets drop a lot between 25 and 50 yards.   You need a scope with reticle sub tensions.

-Y

Yes- I agree wholeheartedly on AO.
I have MANY rimfire rifles, and ZERO rimfire scopes. I do not own a scope that doesn’t have AO, many of mine are side focus.
It’s nigh impossible to shoot NRA smallbore silhouette using POA without a scope that has reliable tracking and adequate MOA range built into the elevation turret.
My dedicated silhouette scopes generally have around 50 MOA W/E adjustment. Some folks shoot the 4 distances with a sub tension reticle, but the vast majority of us are cranking our turrets between all four shooting stations.

In a typical match, dialing from 40 m to 60 m to 77 m and then to 100 m, I will go through 40 clicks or more depending upon how cold it is.

 But in this case, I will only need to dial for drop between 25 yards and 50 yards with a .177. I have not shot it much yet, at all, so I don’t know – and I was hoping I could get some ballpark information from you all here. About how much pellet drop can I expect between 25 m and 50 m with say a 10.34 grain pellet and muzzle velocity being equal?

 Most silhouette Shooters, including myself-prefer a very simple non-cluttered reticle with a larger than normal dot at the center. A couple of simple sub tension hashmarks are not a problem, but a cluttered reticle does not help. A larger dot that covers more than half of the target at any given distance is much easier to hold offhand, especially nearing the end of an 80 shot match.


Thanks for the info on the Hawke scopes, your comments are about what I expected from what I have read so far. It appears to me that they do not offer a variety of reticle choices for their lower to mid level scopes. Do such options exist on any of the higher end Hawkes?

If it sounds like I’m not getting it, and I apologize- but the truth is I will be doing something that would be rather boring to a lot of you.  I am not going to be shooting at the four different distances used in an actual smallbore silhouette match. I will be using scaled down targets cut out of reactive target material in the shapes of the four target critters for silhouette at 25 yards on some days, with larger cut out targets at 50 yards on other days. This is actually very common practice for people who shoot NRA smallbore silhouette and want to do target practice in their backyard without burning powder at the range.

 I will literally be shooting at 4 rows of 5 targets at the same distance over and over and over again.

I realize that that sounds really mundane, but in this discipline,  practice is King!

DrGunner

[DrGunner]

 Back to the 1” vs 30mm tube conundrum.
 Morr Accuracy actually does make their 1.5” tall Edge silhouette rings in 30 mm.
They cost a bit more, at $85 a pair, and are not available in anything but raw aluminum so they’d have to be sent out for anodizing.
That would not be such a bad thing, since I already have a bare aluminum trigger guard that I ordered from Rowan engineering in the UK for my Regal. I also ordered one of their nifty swiveling single load adapters after they were recommended on RFC.

Rowan Engineering Daystate SSA:




Rowan Engineering Aluminum Trigger Guard for Regal:



D3 Precision 1.5” Silhouette rings, black on the left- pictured below

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scope-Rings-for-11mm-Dovetail-fits-Anschutz-and-CZ-1-Scope/264268435836?hash=item3d87a0517c:m:mGtUfnh22L1vAbv4osjSJgg

$50 plus shipping on eBay. Pete- the designer & manufacturer of them is a very nice guy to work with.

Morr Accuracy Edge Silhouette 1.5” rings, raw silver on the right. pictured below

http://www.morraccuracy.com/store/c2/Rings_%26_Levels.html

$85 plus shipping. The company did not respond to 2 or 3 emails inquiring whether he’d consider doing a batch in black for a group buy for shooters from 2 forum sites.
Raw aluminum is the only option.
They are very well made with precise fit, no lapping necessary. Mine had minor tooling marks but they don’t show once anodized and they do look very nice.






Here’s a link to a thread with a write up comparing D3 Precision and Morr Accuracy Silhouette rings. If you hunt or enjoy shooting offhand, I think you’d be pleasantly surprised how much more stable your offhand hold can be with taller scope rings. Navigate to this thread to read about tall rings:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1159821

Sorry for rambling...

[DrGunner]

Vortex Diamondback tatical, Athlon Taus.

Vortex! I completely forget to check them!

Thanks-

DrGunner

[Eddie_E]

Another option for tall scope rings for airguns is to use a dovetail to Weaver adapter to elevate the scope 1/2" and use a set of tall Weaver rings. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-new-gen-dovetail-to-picatinny-weaver-adapter-recoil-resistant-stop?a=7424

Once you choose a few scope options, Joe Rhea has a lot of scope reviews on Youtube that he shows actual turret tracking tests form a fixed Weaver rail on a 400 lb dresser. His reviews are some of the few that are not "sponsored" products and he gives results with a no BS Texas flavor. Search cyclops scope reviews on YT.

[DrGunner]

Another option for tall scope rings for airguns is to use a dovetail to Weaver adapter to elevate the scope 1/2" and use a set of tall Weaver rings. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-new-gen-dovetail-to-picatinny-weaver-adapter-recoil-resistant-stop?a=7424

Once you choose a few scope options, Joe Rhea has a lot of scope reviews on Youtube that he shows actual turret tracking tests form a fixed Weaver rail on a 400 lb dresser. His reviews are some of the few that are not "sponsored" products and he gives results with a no BS Texas flavor. Search cyclops scope reviews on YT.

Eddie-that is an excellent resource for information for a shooter like me. Turret tracking tests are seldom seen in many scope reviews, yet they are one of the most important parameters I’m looking for. I just subscribed to his channel and will spend some time tonight reviewing videos.

Thank you so much, sir!

Dr Gunner