.177 Taipan Veteran Accuracy Testing

[UCChris]

Yeah that's more like it.  Hopefully that will hold up with subsequent groups.  For what it's worth, I usually tinker around with the fit of barrel bands, shrouds and baffles, and tightness of the stock retention bolt (if relevant).  Usually there will be an arrangement that favors harmonics to produce tighter groups.

I hope it holds up. I have an inch lb torque wrench that I can use to get consistent pressure, so that should help.

[Dairyboy]

Very interesting! Yeah I forget how tight they were when I had them but I think was in the 40in lb range

[Motorhead]

Also .... IF YOU HAVE NEVER spent time shooting a bullpup and especially a SHORT one .... There super sensitive to body motion, ANY motion because the points of contact in holding or on a rest ARE SO CLOSE TOGETHER !
Compound that with a Trigger that may be a bit stiff or have some 2nd stage creep, your asking for motion !!!   body tension, hand hold pressure, trigger hand grip pressure ALONG with Any cheek weld pressure your going to move during the shot.

Don't take this the wrong way .... your perceived accuracy concerns may be partly due to bad technique in getting and remaining motion free while breaking shots

[UCChris]

Also .... IF YOU HAVE NEVER spent time shooting a bullpup and especially a SHORT one .... There super sensitive to body motion, ANY motion because the points of contact in holding or on a rest ARE SO CLOSE TOGETHER !
Compound that with a Trigger that may be a bit stiff or have some 2nd stage creep, your asking for motion !!!   body tension, hand hold pressure, trigger hand grip pressure ALONG with Any cheek weld pressure your going to move during the shot.

Don't take this the wrong way .... your perceived accuracy concerns may be partly due to bad technique in getting and remaining motion free while breaking shots

I have noticed this! I have the trigger adjusted to under a pound and as crisp as glass. However I have noticed that I still have to really focus on my follow through.

[Traum]

I dont agree with the ss tray vs magazine arguement  especially when the magazine isnt spring loaded its just a couple orings holding the pellets in place.as long as the pellets are getting crimped going through the hole in the magazine it shouldn't change anything.

My personal belief is single shot loading takes more time between shots which means you focus on getting a pellet, sliding it into the tray cocking then resettling down behind the gun. Which all gives you time for your muscles to relax and not stay locked in the same spot and so they dont get fatigued. Also gives you time to slow down your breathing and get in the zone opposed to jacking back the bolt and slamming another pellet into the barrel  and firing it down range as soon as you get back on target.The act of single shot loading is a form of meditation (for me) which improves my groups. It's not that the ss tray is some magic solution.

I have the cz barrel long in .22 and it's an incredible rifle . I can't praise it enough . It does shoot most pellets with groups like your first ones but with jsb monsters I can put 10 in a postage stamp at 50 yards
I would try some other pellets check that you have no freeplay in your baffles like others said.

[elh0102]

I dont agree with the ss tray vs magazine arguement  especially when the magazine isnt spring loaded its just a couple orings holding the pellets in place.as long as the pellets are getting crimped going through the hole in the magazine it shouldn't change anything.

My personal belief is single shot loading takes more time between shots which means you focus on getting a pellet, sliding it into the tray cocking then resettling down behind the gun. Which all gives you time for your muscles to relax and not stay locked in the same spot and so they dont get fatigued. Also gives you time to slow down your breathing and get in the zone opposed to jacking back the bolt and slamming another pellet into the barrel  and firing it down range as soon as you get back on target.The act of single shot loading is a form of meditation (for me) which improves my groups. It's not that the ss tray is some magic solution.

I have the cz barrel long in .22 and it's an incredible rifle . I can't praise it enough . It does shoot most pellets with groups like your first ones but with jsb monsters I can put 10 in a postage stamp at 50 yards
I would try some other pellets check that you have no freeplay in your baffles like others said.

I have shot a ton of targets with rifles using magazines of various designs, and with rare exception, they all shoot better when loaded as single shot, either using the tray or manually inserting the pellet into the breech. Spring loading affects accuracy in some magazines, but is not the most critical factor. More important is the alignment of the magazine with the chamber and the probe. and, that the pellet can be held slightly out of alignment in the magazine by the O ring, even without spring tension. You can sometimes feel the slightly increased resistance in the lever when chambering a pellet, and actually call the shots that will be flyers. You never see magazines used in high level, precision competition, and this is not because the shooters enjoy inserting the pellets. In fact, it would be to the shooter's advantage to use the magazine when conditions allow rapidly shooting several rounds. It would also minimize the risk of pellet damage in mishandling them. They know their rifles shoot better in single shot loading. I am convinced of this without doubt.

[Dairyboy]

I rarely ever use a magazine in any guns regardless of if the mags shoot the same as single shot tray as I just like to individually load when shooting or pesting. I find it makes me not rush shots and makes me focus more. My Kral Puncher Jumbo shoots no different with a mag or single loading and when I owned my Taipans never had an issue with any of them and actually shot awesome groups like MOA with the mag at 100yds with my Taipan Veteran Long .22. What I would give to have that one back. I've heard Daystates though are a big difference usually with mag to single loading.

[elh0102]

I rarely ever use a magazine in any guns regardless of if the mags shoot the same as single shot tray as I just like to individually load when shooting or pesting. I find it makes me not rush shots and makes me focus more. My Kral Puncher Jumbo shoots no different with a mag or single loading and when I owned my Taipans never had an issue with any of them and actually shot awesome groups like MOA with the mag at 100yds with my Taipan Veteran Long .22. What I would give to have that one back. I've heard Daystates though are a big difference usually with mag to single loading.

I tend to agree with that, at least the Daystate/Brocock rifles I have owned did suffer more accuray degradation with the magazine than does the Taipan. Most of the flyers I get with Taipan magazine are subtle, and would often not result in missing a squirrel size target. But that same flyer would take me out of the competition in a match scenario. Best is best, and second best loses.

[elh0102]

Chris, I hope the consistent scope tower torque proves beneficial. I'll be hopeful, but a bit doubtful that is the issue. If it still is not shooting to your satisfaction, remove the moderator and test it using just the bare barrel. It is an easy variable to eliminate. Sometimes a moderator can be problematic, even if clipping is not a visible issue. Again, I have no reason to suspect this is a problem, but it's easy to diagnose.

[UCChris]

Chris, I hope the consistent scope tower torque proves beneficial. I'll be hopeful, but a bit doubtful that is the issue. If it still is not shooting to your satisfaction, remove the moderator and test it using just the bare barrel. It is an easy variable to eliminate. Sometimes a moderator can be problematic, even if clipping is not a visible issue. Again, I have no reason to suspect this is a problem, but it's easy to diagnose.

In the original post I mention that I did a bare barrel and shroud test.

Anyway, it does appear that it was the rail clamp screws. Here's my preliminary shooting this morning. The first four groups are with a magazine and the following two are using the single shot tray. I am headed to the hardware store as soon as I can slip away from work to get a metric bit set, then I'll start testing torque settings with the torque wrench.

I threw the shot to the right on the last group, so I shot six pellets to get a good 5 shot group. These "dang" short bullpups are a whole different shooting experience than a rifle.

[Dairyboy]

Yeah the Shorty's are amazing hunters but tougher to get a handle on when shooting targets. The longs seem to shine at shooting groups. Why they quit shipping .22 Longs to the states is beyond me and if they would bring .177 in all lengths in they would sell a bunch

[UCChris]

Yeah the Shorty's are amazing hunters but tougher to get a handle on when shooting targets. The longs seem to shine at shooting groups. Why they quit shipping .22 Longs to the states is beyond me and if they would bring .177 in all lengths in they would sell a bunch

I would buy a .177 Long today and give the shorty to the wifey.

[UCChris]

Just shot four more groups and all four groups were good, but each had one pellet that just nudged out of the group. I'm going to pull the barrel and pull patches with paste on them, as well as pull the transfer port out and polish it, per Ernest Rowe's video on the subject.

[Traum]

I'm still on the learning side of pcp and no master and have never been in in an airgun competition.

I tried single shot and magazine in my tv and couldnt tell one from the other on paper. Luck of the draw? Inexperience? Without extensive testing its opinion. Others know much better than me.

Some.lube pellets or size and swear by it others say it's a waste outside of competition. Some buy pellets by the lot number in massive quantities. Sorry to get away from op question. I just though for most backyard shooters its more the act of single shot loading then the actual mechanisms that improves the groups. Just my thoughts with no evidence or charts. I hope you figure out whats causing the problems because the taipan a are great guns from my experience.

[elh0102]

I'm still on the learning side of pcp and no master and have never been in in an airgun competition.

I tried single shot and magazine in my tv and couldnt tell one from the other on paper. Luck of the draw? Inexperience? Without extensive testing its opinion. Others know much better than me.

Some.lube pellets or size and swear by it others say it's a waste outside of competition. Some buy pellets by the lot number in massive quantities. Sorry to get away from op question. I just though for most backyard shooters its more the act of single shot loading then the actual mechanisms that improves the groups. Just my thoughts with no evidence or charts. I hope you figure out whats causing the problems because the taipan a are great guns from my experience.

I've found all the variables you mention to be very rifle specific.  In general, my experience indicates the following: Lubing pellets helps accuracy in a few rifles, and will extend the need for cleaning in most rifles, but, it's not worth the time and effort. Weighing and sizing pellets is a waste of time. Paying attention to lot number can be beneficial, but not nearly to the extent as in rimfire ammunition. I use JSB pellets almost exclusively, and can generally tell no difference between lots. Every rifle I own, and have owned, shoots better from the single shot tray. In most cases the difference is small, and not of consequence for typical backyard or hunting use. The FX Royale is the best from the magazine in my experience, and the Taipan Veteran is about as good. For the casual shooter, none of it matters nearly as much as shooting practice.

[UCChris]

As much as I hate to admit it, I think Ed my be right about the SS vs magazine. I am going to use this as a pesting rifle, so I bumped the HS up a half turn, which I knew would take me from 870 fps to 890 fps average. I then shot my standard target to get a new baseline before messing with the torque settings for the clamp screws. The four on the left are magazine, the two on the right are single shot. The top left group is 10 shots, the rest are 5. Same as always, 33 yards, JSB 10.34.



The single shot groups are definitely better and now within where I would consider myself happy with the money I spent on the gun.

[elh0102]

Well, whether I'm right or not, I would not get to discouraged about using the mag with your Veteran. When it comes to critter rifles, I think many of us fall victim to being overly influenced by what our rifles do on the target. The real question may be, is my accuracy acceptable for the intended purpose with the magazine? My Vet is sitting on the porch right now waiting for a squirrel, and the magazine is in it. Shooting from a field position is, for me, a much bigger variable than the difference in accuracy between s/s and magazine. I shot these groups today at 25 yards with the Veteran, and both are certainly acceptable.

[UCChris]

Well, whether I'm right or not, I would not get to discouraged about using the mag with your Veteran. When it comes to critter rifles, I think many of us fall victim to being overly influenced by what our rifles do on the target. The real question may be, is my accuracy acceptable for the intended purpose with the magazine? My Vet is sitting on the porch right now waiting for a squirrel, and the magazine is in it. Shooting from a field position is, for me, a much bigger variable than the difference in accuracy between s/s and magazine. I shot these groups today at 25 yards with the Veteran, and both are certainly acceptable.

Those groups are with the magazine? One thing I am considering is how terribly flimsy the skirts are on a .177 pellet. Even though the magazine retention is just a couple o-rings, that might be too much. Maybe I'll pull one of the o-rings and see if the magazine groups shrink.

[elh0102]

Well, whether I'm right or not, I would not get to discouraged about using the mag with your Veteran. When it comes to critter rifles, I think many of us fall victim to being overly influenced by what our rifles do on the target. The real question may be, is my accuracy acceptable for the intended purpose with the magazine? My Vet is sitting on the porch right now waiting for a squirrel, and the magazine is in it. Shooting from a field position is, for me, a much bigger variable than the difference in accuracy between s/s and magazine. I shot these groups today at 25 yards with the Veteran, and both are certainly acceptable.

Those groups are with the magazine? One thing I am considering is how terribly flimsy the skirts are on a .177 pellet. Even though the magazine retention is just a couple o-rings, that might be too much. Maybe I'll pull one of the o-rings and see if the magazine groups shrink.

Sorry, guess I omitted a sentence. No, the larger group is with the magazine, the other is with s/s tray. The magazine group is better than my average with it, as I often get a flyer that opens it more. Of course, the other group is better than my average shooting s/s, wish that was my average group!

[UCChris]

So, I pulled one of the o-rings off of one of my magazines to do a test with. The first thing I noticed is that the pellet loads much easier. For better or for worse, that allowed me to feel a little bit of a hiccup at the transfer port. I think that I will pull the barrel tomorrow and look at the lead and the transfer port.



The magazine with two o-rings was decent. The single shot tray was awesome, minus the one shot I pulled. The groups with the single o-ring mod are fascinating. Four out of five shots in every group were just as tight as the single shot tray, but three of the groups had a weird flyer.

Tomorrow I will shoot 12, five shot groups to get more data.