Sythetic Flashpup Adventure Started

[Rallyshark]

I just received one of the new Synthetic Flashpups.  This thread will be dedicated to my observations and modding shenanigans.  I'll refer to it as the SFP from here on out.

Initial thoughts of the gun are pretty good, better than I expected even.  The fit and finish is better than that of my standard Flash.  All of the machining is quite good.  I don't know if they tried harder, because it is a new gun or what?  It is a little heavier than the wood Flashpup(WFP), and I'll discuss why further down.  Still, it is a couple of pounds lighter than the Bullboss.  I knew they were only 32" long, but didn't appreciate that length, until I got it in my hands and shouldered it.  I was also concerned about the front mounting point of the scope rail, given the plastic support structure at the front.  I wiggled and yanked, but it seems quite solid.  I don't think that is going to be an issue at this point. 

There are some significant differences between the SFP and the WFP/standard Flash.  If you look at the SFP pictures compared to those of the WFP, you'll notice there are some differences, other than just the synthetic stock.  I didn't catch it at first, but there is more to the cylinder than meets the eye.  Turns out there is a reason they changed to a steel cylinder.  The steel cylinder is over 2" shorter than the aluminum on the WFP/Flash.  It would seem the steel cylinder's thinner wall requirements allowed the cylinder to be shorter and keep the same volume.  Also, the front end of the synthetic stock is closed off and covers the end of the cylinder.  Whereas, the WFP stock is open on the front.  The SFP has a nice little machined aluminum dust plug for the fill port too.  We now know where the majority of that extra weight is coming from!  This brings up another thought on regulation.  I'm going to shoot Huub at Huma an email to let him know that the interior dimensions of the SFP are likely different than those of the WFP/Flash.  That should save him and us some trouble down the road, should anyone choose to regulate it.  As most of you know, regulation on these guns is really only needed for higher shot count low-mid power tunes.  They do quite well without being regulated. 

The stock on the SFP is a plus in my book.  The shorter curved fore section seems to work quite well when brought to the shoulder.  It is just fits, and makes for a secure firm hold, despite the shortish length of pull.  The other significant bonus of this stock is the butt pad adjustments.  You can adjust the angle and height of the butt pad.  That allows more customization for the shooter to get a more natural sight picture when shouldered.  I think the rear bolt will be one thing that will take some getting used to on my part.  Others don't seem to mind it, so I expect I'll adapt too.  One thing I don't see, is a way to modify the stock for HS adjustments without removing the stock.  I may try and come up with a solution to that later, but I don't see any obvious solutions currently.

The bolt on the SFP is also different from that of the WFP/Flash.  Although, I suspect it is the same as the wood Flash.  The other versions have an allen screw holding the bolt handle through the end of it.  The bolt on the SFP is held on with an allen coming in from the other side of the probe assembly.  This is vital info, for when you want to take it apart to remove all the bits from the breech assembly.  Hatsan has made a hole on the left side of the breech for accessing that screw.  That hole is covered with a flush fitting flathead screw/cap.  That cap is loctited in, so make sure you have a well fitting flathead and a strong grip when removing it!  One of the best features of the Flash series is easy disassembly.  All you have to do is knock out the pins holding the trigger, remove the threaded plug on the rear(don't forget the little grub screw that locks it in place), remove the bolt, and all the parts slide easily out the rear of the breech assembly. 

Out of the box, the HS is adjusted for a pretty good standard tune.  I shot a string straight out of the box, which resulted in a pretty good 25-30 shot 32-ish fpe tune with a good curve.  This gun would give you that from 2800psi fill.

Next up, I'll be doing the standard Flash modifications to see what we can get out of this little guy.  They will include:
-cleaning out the that lubricating goop, and replacing with something less like sludge
-polishing all the moving parts in the breech
-adjusting the trigger pull
-opening up the barrel port
-opening up the transfer
-opening up the valve exit hole
-opening up the valve seat with a PEEK replacement
-cleaning/de-burring/slight opening of valve spring retainer

That's it for now, but stay tuned as the progress continues!

[UCChris]

Thanks for the first impressions Donny! My boss' SFP should be here Monday, so I'll see if it's machined as nicely.

[Rallyshark]

Thanks for the first impressions Donny! My boss' SFP should be here Monday, so I'll see if it's machined as nicely.

Yes, that will be interesting to know if Hatsan has upped their QC, or mine is a fluke,lol!

[UCChris]

I hope they have! I honestly love my .177 Flash as much as some guns I've had that cost over $500. I think it's hands down the best value in the budget market [if] you want a light, powerful hunter.

If Hatsan has upped the quality, that's making it an even better value.

[Ribbonstone]

HAve tried my best by way of just adjsting what was provided  as adjustable (the "stuff" have built in screws for).


slower speeds/energy.....but a good number of shots for suich a small unregulated PCP of this air volume.

DSCN2070 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

Honestly, do NOT KNOW why I tried. HAve two mags.   to get any real world use out of the above when hunting,I'd really need  3 oir 4 mags.

Ao I'm consdiering the use of the "puppy"and the shot count vs.mag.;count...and it'slikely the shot energy per shot will go up...shot count will go down..and the "good"shots per fill balances with the4 two mags (24 shots) that came with the rifle.

Know that's a kind of ackwasswardfs" way of tuning..... been in this game for a long time,and it seems reasonable to me to match the "good" shot count to mag.fills with a repeater.

[Rallyshark]

I followed you on flickr Ribbonstone (rallyshark).  There's nothing at all wrong with those numbers!  I hope I'll be able to apply the same numbers I got with my regular Flash to the SFP.  As to the two mags worth, I was able to get some pretty surprising numbers out of my regular Flash in .22 after some modifications.  The biggest parts of were the PEEK valve seat and porting.  I managed a 24 shot tune at 41fpe with the 25.39s with 1.44 efficiency.  I even got a 10 shot 55 fpe tune out of it with the 33.95 Beasts with 1.4 efficiency    All those were within 4% as well

[Ribbonstone]

LEts give a resounding "boo" to the PCP's that come with only one mag(cehap b-targs no matter what the cost of the rifle)..

LEts give an "OK" to the ones that come with two,,,and a thumbs up to the ones that come with two totally more than 20 shots.

I can live with two10 or 12 shot mags.  One for half a "loop" out from the Jeep and the other for the half a loop back in towards the Jeep.  Might be smaller loops than if I had 4 mags and a shot count to match, but it's totally livable even when you get side tracked by the occasional cow-pie-splattering.

(although to be honest....it's super rare for me to get more than 8-12 shots on critters in a single "loop").


At the bench/static shooting,doesn't really make a difference.  But so far, having the right number of shots in pre-loaded magazines has made things easy.

So with the Flashpup…and refusing to buy a 3rd or 4th mag...pretty well settled on a good run of 24-25 shots (two mags)…..at whatever energy level I can get that number of shots.

One mag looping "out" and one mag "in".

[Rallyshark]

Sounds like you got your "system" down pat there!  That is what it is all about though, getting the gun tuned specifically for your needs.  I'm a tinkerer and can't leave a stock gun alone,lol.  I'm always thinking about how I can make it better, and I like to see what each gun is capable of on the extreme end of things.  After that, I'll tune it for it's intended purpose

Speaking of tinkering...  I got some of the work done on the new SFP!  I got the PEEK seat made, and I took it as far as safely possible with an opening of .213.  I got the barrel/transfer ports done to .185-ish.  I did the valve exit hole up to .2 to account for any slight alignment issues with the transfer.  I haven't decided if I'm going to try a different hammer spring yet.  I got all of the hard stuff out of the way.  All I have left is to clean and lightly polish the barrel(which is one of the best machined Hatsan barrels I've ever had).  The rest will just be down to cleaning, lubing, adjusting, and then assembly.  I should be able to get some numbers from the chrony by tomorrow, and we'll know what the little thumper is capable of.

Oh, and a side note, it appears they have also changed the hammer design on this gun too.  There are some notches and cuts that are absent from this hammer compared to my regular Flash.  I believe the anti-knock/de-bounce catches on the bolt rod are different, which is the reason for the slight hammer change.  More to come!

[Buldawg76]

Remember Donny when we first got our refurb flashes and I made the peek seat with your guidance I was able to squeeze out 65fpe from my 25 cal flash with 34 gr pellets for one mag if I remember correctly. I currently have it tuned to 40fpe for 32 shots and its a nice lightweight hammer for walking the woods and deadly out to 50 yards with zero holdovers.

BD

[UCChris]

Remember Donny when we first got our refurb flashes and I made the peek seat with your guidance I was able to squeeze out 65fpe from my 25 cal flash with 34 gr pellets for one mag if I remember correctly. I currently have it tuned to 40fpe for 32 shots and its a nice lightweight hammer for walking the woods and deadly out to 50 yards with zero holdovers.

BD

That's awesome. I have some peek but no Flash that needs that sort of power.

[Rallyshark]

Remember Donny when we first got our refurb flashes and I made the peek seat with your guidance I was able to squeeze out 65fpe from my 25 cal flash with 34 gr pellets for one mag if I remember correctly. I currently have it tuned to 40fpe for 32 shots and its a nice lightweight hammer for walking the woods and deadly out to 50 yards with zero holdovers.

BD

Yep, I do remember!  We were kind of doing the mods in comparison between the .22 and .25, so the power and numbers were good apple to apple with two different calibers.  That was good stuff, and it amazes me still what we were able to get out of these inexpensive little guns.  I expect the SFP will be along the same lines, but there are some subtle differences, so the results could be a little different.  I don't have any 33.95 Beasts, so the power testing will happen the Monsters instead. 

Chris, that enlarged PEEK valve seat will help with more than just power.  The larger opening will close faster, and it will require less HS to crack the valve(due to the hardness of the PEEK).  It can benefit all tunes IMO

[UCChris]

Remember Donny when we first got our refurb flashes and I made the peek seat with your guidance I was able to squeeze out 65fpe from my 25 cal flash with 34 gr pellets for one mag if I remember correctly. I currently have it tuned to 40fpe for 32 shots and its a nice lightweight hammer for walking the woods and deadly out to 50 yards with zero holdovers.

BD

Yep, I do remember!  We were kind of doing the mods in comparison between the .22 and .25, so the power and numbers were good apple to apple with two different calibers.  That was good stuff, and it amazes me still what we were able to get out of these inexpensive little guns.  I expect the SFP will be along the same lines, but there are some subtle differences, so the results could be a little different.  I don't have any 33.95 Beasts, so the power testing will happen the Monsters instead. 

Chris, that enlarged PEEK valve seat will help with more than just power.  The larger opening will close faster, and it will require less HS to crack the valve(due to the hardness of the PEEK).  It can benefit all tunes IMO

Hmmm, I might try one in my .177 12 fpe regulated tune.

[Buldawg76]

Yep I really enjoyed that exercise in seeing just how much could be achieved with very little work. I cannot complain at all for a 150 dollar gun. Its even more accurate than I will ever be, my bad heart and COPD keep me from being as steady as needed for best groupings. Still under 3/4" at 50 yards bench rested is acceptable for me.   Just learn to shoot between the heart beats and labored breathing. LOL

BD

[Rallyshark]

Chris, if you do that, combined with all of the other stuff on a 12fpe tune... Well, let's just say your shot count should be pretty insane and QUIET!  If you took it a wee bit further and opened up the porting a bit too, you'd be able to run an even lower reg set point.  I think a shot count exceeding 60-70 shots is doable  

BD,  I understand doing the best we can.  The last couple of years have seen my eye sight take a bit of a dive.  That is why I moved away from my SWFA SS fixed 10X scope and moved up to the Falcon 3-18X scopes.  I took everything as far as I could on the SFP, so it should do pretty well.  The biggest limiting factors on these guns is fill pressure and barrel length.  Still, considering the 17.75" barrel, we don't have anything to complain about! 

[UCChris]

Chris, if you do that, combined with all of the other stuff on a 12fpe tune... Well, let's just say your shot count should be pretty insane and QUIET!  If you took it a wee bit further and opened up the porting a bit too, you'd be able to run an even lower reg set point.  I think a shot count exceeding 60-70 shots is doable  

BD,  I understand doing the best we can.  The last couple of years have seen my eye sight take a bit of a dive.  That is why I moved away from my SWFA SS fixed 10X scope and moved up to the Falcon 3-18X scopes.  I took everything as far as I could on the SFP, so it should do pretty well.  The biggest limiting factors on these guns is fill pressure and barrel length.  Still, considering the 17.75" barrel, we don't have anything to complain about!

I am already getting 81 shots at 12 fpe , just by playing with the hammer spring. We'll see what happens with Knifemaker's hammer mods and the rest.

You still got the SWFA 10x? Is it matching reticle and turrets? Those are my favorite scopes.

[Buldawg76]

Chris, if you do that, combined with all of the other stuff on a 12fpe tune... Well, let's just say your shot count should be pretty insane and QUIET!  If you took it a wee bit further and opened up the porting a bit too, you'd be able to run an even lower reg set point.  I think a shot count exceeding 60-70 shots is doable  

BD,  I understand doing the best we can.  The last couple of years have seen my eye sight take a bit of a dive.  That is why I moved away from my SWFA SS fixed 10X scope and moved up to the Falcon 3-18X scopes.  I took everything as far as I could on the SFP, so it should do pretty well.  The biggest limiting factors on these guns is fill pressure and barrel length.  Still, considering the 17.75" barrel, we don't have anything to complain about!

Donny
I fully understand the eye sight and aging since I have been nearsighted all my life needing glasses to see far away. Then in 08 I was diagnosed with cataracts and had the surgery where they pulverize the lens under the cornea and replace it with a new contact type lens so I went from being 20-220 vision to 20-20 vision and far sighted. So instead of wearing glasses to see far away I now need them to see close up which took some getting used to but am much happier with not having to wear glasses the majority of the time versus now only to work on up close items. Now they have progressive lens that give you the best of both close and far vision. Unfortunately I have been diagnosed with type II diabetes now so in the past year or so I have noticed my vision is not as crisp as it has been since 08 after the cataract surgery but still far better than before it. I am still far better off vision wise than I was for the majority of my life so nothing to complain about on my end.

BD

[HunterWhite]

My insurance requires me to pay an extra $4000 per eye for the progressive lens.

OUCH!

[Rallyshark]

Chris, if you do that, combined with all of the other stuff on a 12fpe tune... Well, let's just say your shot count should be pretty insane and QUIET!  If you took it a wee bit further and opened up the porting a bit too, you'd be able to run an even lower reg set point.  I think a shot count exceeding 60-70 shots is doable  

BD,  I understand doing the best we can.  The last couple of years have seen my eye sight take a bit of a dive.  That is why I moved away from my SWFA SS fixed 10X scope and moved up to the Falcon 3-18X scopes.  I took everything as far as I could on the SFP, so it should do pretty well.  The biggest limiting factors on these guns is fill pressure and barrel length.  Still, considering the 17.75" barrel, we don't have anything to complain about!

I am already getting 81 shots at 12 fpe , just by playing with the hammer spring. We'll see what happens with Knifemaker's hammer mods and the rest.

You still got the SWFA 10x? Is it matching reticle and turrets? Those are my favorite scopes.

Hahaha, that's nuts, nice job!  Might as well shoot for 90 now  

[mcoulter]

Oh good grief.   The darn thing is on sale at AGD with at 21% off coupon  (of1901)...  $276 bucks!   

Must. 

Resist.

Purchasing.

Repeat after me...  I already have a flash and a used at44.

[Rallyshark]

Oh good grief.   The darn thing is on sale at AGD with at 21% off coupon  (of1901)...  $276 bucks!   

Must. 

Resist.

Purchasing.

Repeat after me...  I already have a flash and a used at44.

I think that is a pretty hard deal to pass up!  I say buy it, especially now that I've gotten this one back together and ran it over the chrony.  Oh wait, I'm not helping, hahaha!