My HW97K and the real truth about Vortek kits!

[Bayman]

Ron,

I often replay other people's opinions.  I do not call them my own.  I read several forums and have for a few years.  Nobody knows everything, but everybody does know everything.
Some people are to lazy to do a simple search.  Some people do not even know the question that they are asking.

Sharing knowledge, even second hand knowledge is what forums are all about!

-Y

Second hand knowledge is just hearsay. Unfortunately on forums it's often twenty second hand knowledge without any verification of the truth. Replaying other people's opinions in the guise of being helpful isn't helpful at all. It leads to perpetrating misinformation that send all sorts of people up a dirt road to nowhere. That said I've gleaned a lot of good information from the folks on this and other forums, but there's a lot of information you have to weed out as unfounded regurgitated garbage. I try only to put out my own personal experiences that I can actually back up. Relaying unfounded hearsay hurts more than helps. It's like asking someone on the street for directions. Most people when asked for directions to a place they don't know will say something wrong or where they think a place might be instead of simply saying they don't know. They do it trying to be helpful or to not look stupid. It's better to say, "I don't know" and remain quiet than to send the person up a dirt road because you heard or thought something that was never verified. Only facts matter and much of what we actually experience and express on forums as facts, myself included still has to be taken with a grain of salt because there's so many variables that sometimes aren't understood at the time of the posting. Everyone here would be better off if they would only post their actual experience and let the reader decipher the information that's most relevant to them.

[Chouchin66]

When I first started reading this forum , and others , to glean info, I absorbed all available on a subject. Taking the general consensus of a majority of posters seperates the wheat from the chaff... Mostly.

[Chouchin66]

Back to the subject of tuning...anyone here have experience with Titan mainsprings? I realize they're an across the pond thing... Don't hurt to ask.  Thanks.

[abqjoe]

Back to the subject of tuning...anyone here have experience with Titan mainsprings? I realize they're an across the pond thing... Don't hurt to ask.  Thanks.

I haven't tried them but Hector Medina said he likes them....

[abqjoe]

Update; the parts I was offering to give away are now spoken for..........

[Robert 5mm]

I recently installed a Vortek PG2 SHO kit into my R1. I am very happy with the results.
My older R1 and P1 sat for many years without being used - gummed up with old lube - so after cleaning I figured to upgrade also.

I used the Custom Air Seals piston seal from Australia - based on comments from this forum.
The comments stated Custom Air Seals molybdenum impregnated seals were the best.
So I waited for it to arrive from Australia rather than use the Vortek supplied seal or one I purchased from PA.

I used the R1 breech seal from PA. The breech seal o-ring PA sent for my P1 was not the correct size.
They sent the wrong size in the correctly labeled bag and then charged me for restocking.
I then bought multiple sizes of o-rings from the O-ring Store to get the best fit.

I am currently waiting on a P1 piston seal from Custom Air Seals.
I bought a P1 spring from ARH - will install when I get the seal.

[Airwoods]

When my tuner installed my vortek kit in my hw50s .177 which was the the standard power kit,non sho it lost 50fps as compared the the rifles stock set up when he chronied the gun.It has about 1500 rounds through it now and has gone up 10 fps since i first chronied it when i got it back It shoots at about 9fpe and im at 3000 ft elevation.

They did something wrong.l with your gun. I think have the same kit in my 177 50. It's listed as <12lb and mine makes 11+fpe and the shot cycle is sweet. It's like its co2 powered. I got a great shooting rifle that delivered the advertised power. I've had it at my local ft range and a very experienced shooter /competitor there said, "Wow this is really nice, you did this yourself?"

Everything I’m sure was done right   Tuner has installed dozens of these and was a recommended tuner by Vortek.Im thinking maybe the spring itself was just a little weak.If I was hunting with it and wanted the most I could get out of it I would have tried another standard power Vortek spring but I just target shoots 20 yards max and it’s fine for that use.Besides it very accurate and the extreme spread is about 2-5 FPS with now about 1500 shots though it.

[Airwoods]

I personally don’t think the Vortek kit is harsh, at least not in the my hw50s.Snappy and very quick shot cycle with no vibration or spring twang yes but harsh no.

Compared to my Paul what tuned .22 r1 with jm internals which has more of a poof feel to it When fired but also twang and vibration free where my 50s has a snap feel when the piston slams against then wall.I like both but if I were to install one of the other In a new spring gun I would go with the Vortek. Like others says easy drop in and no tar to mess with.

[Bayman]

When my tuner installed my vortek kit in my hw50s .177 which was the the standard power kit,non sho it lost 50fps as compared the the rifles stock set up when he chronied the gun.It has about 1500 rounds through it now and has gone up 10 fps since i first chronied it when i got it back It shoots at about 9fpe and im at 3000 ft elevation.

They did something wrong.l with your gun. I think have the same kit in my 177 50. It's listed as <12lb and mine makes 11+fpe and the shot cycle is sweet. It's like its co2 powered. I got a great shooting rifle that delivered the advertised power. I've had it at my local ft range and a very experienced shooter /competitor there said, "Wow this is really nice, you did this yourself?"

Everything I’m sure was done right   Tuner has installed dozens of these and was a recommended tuner by Vortek.Im thinking maybe the spring itself was just a little weak.If I was hunting with it and wanted the most I could get out of it I would have tried another standard power Vortek spring but I just target shoots 20 yards max and it’s fine for that use.Besides it very accurate and the extreme spread is about 2-5 FPS with now about 1500 shots though it.

I'm sorry I said something wasn't done right. Maybe it's the elevation.  I'm basically at sea level and I forget that makes a big difference. There was three PG2 kits available for the HW50 there's a 7.5 fpe detune, the "<12fpe" kit and a SHO kit. Mine started off stock making 11.8fpe. I went with the <12fpe Vortek kit because I wanted a smooth shooting rifle. I quickly installed the kit and it was making 12.5 fpe with a thousand times better shot cycle. Turns out mine was making additional power because the bottom of the compression tube had a couple of scores and it was dieseling. I honed out the scores the best I could and switched to Krytox to eliminate the dieseling and the gun dropped to 11fpe. I spoke to Tom at Vortek disappointed in my new lower power and he said, " no that's about where it's should be with that kit". In any event the gun is a dream to shoot. Other than the nearly Hw95 cocking effort which is Weihrauchs fault. If you were so inclined you could bump up the power another 25-30 fps by placing a 3/8" grade 8 (thick) washer between the top hat and piston. I'm leaving mine alone. It really is sublime.

[Airwoods]

Ya bring up here at 3000 makes a difference. I didn’t have a chrony when I first got my gun so I had my tuner to see what it was at before and after tune kit. I did know of the other tune kits offered and almost went with the 7fpe kit but wanted the standard power 12fpe installed instead.

When the spring does wear down I’ll install the new pg3 kit.but in the meantime I won’t be shooting for a good while.

[Mark 611]

Really? JM kits do not require tar in some guns at all! I just used a JM spring, with a JM guide and a top Hat I had that fit the other end of the spring with no lube at all! and theirs no mechanical noise at all!!!!! in my HW95 LUXUX .177cal its all muzzle report! tar is only needed if other issues present them selfs? like to tight of a piston seal fit! creating to much pressure to force the spring to bind!

[Airwoods]

I forget to mention that my tuner wasn’t sure why my vortek kit went down in FPS so he reinstalled the stock hw seal that came with my gun and the FPS was still low. So thinking it was the spring that was a little soft.He also said that he would install some spacers to bring up FPS I told him not to sweat it as long as it’s consistent   

[Robert 5mm]

There seems to be a group of  JM or ARH supporters versus Vortek supporters.
I do not know the background behind this - but I think whichever spring does what you want is the best.
There is no best one, maybe just more better ( Aloha )

[Chouchin66]

HW Barrakuda anyone?

[SpiralGroove]

There seems to be a group of  JM or ARH supporters versus Vortek supporters.
I do not know the background behind this - but I think whichever spring does what you want is the best.
There is no best one, maybe just more better ( Aloha )

Yeah Robert,
IMO, most professional tuners "here" lean towards the JM springs and accessories because he's been around forever and provides excellent products.  These tuners likely make their own specialty parts on a lathe or mill providing a custom fit; plus it's cheaper than buying kits.  If customers request or seem to want "Power", then the Vortek kit is likely recommended.

I don't think any of these products are better or worse than the other, but I think JM springs, seals and lubes make it cheaper, allow for more customized work with the tools and knowledge to tweak all areas of the tune.  Most DIYers, opt for the Vortek kits, because their easier to install, can provide max power and offer excellent results. 

I, myself, tried a Vortek kit ending in disappointment and a waste of $80.  I can tune 3 airguns for that cost and haven't been willing to try another Vortek kit. 

[Chouchin66]

Kirk, speaking of lit types +tuning...did you ever get ur gun to go +/- 750 fps (in regard to yer camping post) ? Be cool to hear!

[SpiralGroove]

Kirk, speaking of lit types +tuning...did you ever get ur gun to go +/- 750 fps (in regard to yer camping post) ? Be cool to hear!

What exactly did I say (which gun) ... I can't remember

[Chouchin66]

.20 R10...

[uglymike]

Backtrack several years, my brand new Krales HW98. Send it off to tuner, ARH SGS piston seal, anemic crony #s, send it back, different piston seal, problem solved.   

[abqjoe]

There seems to be a group of  JM or ARH supporters versus Vortek supporters.
I do not know the background behind this - but I think whichever spring does what you want is the best.
There is no best one, maybe just more better ( Aloha )

Bias opinions without firsthand experience is a dangerous thing! I just learned this the hard and expensive way...... This is why I share my journey with others, so that they can have a truth based on firsthand experience to lean their financial decisions on. For hardworking blue-collar guys like myself, 300 bucks is a lot of money to throw down the drain, especially when none of it comes back! I don't want to see anyone else go through this.... So you're correct, "whichever spring does what you want is the best." You are correct because your logic is based on personal firsthand experience.