Liberty Baffles

[BackStop]

Here you go, starts at #494.   https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149431.msg1549126#msg1549126

Steve came up with drilling the first ring to allow air back into the rest of the shroud.

Thanks Ray!   

[FuzzyGrub]

Fuzzy
Yes, his gas diode designs are totally different from a "K" baffle, and presumably a lot more scientific. After exhaustive testing and rambling, it was tough for me to draw any simple conclusions, due to the complexity of the subject. Total volume didn't correlate to % of reduction, etc. etc. TKO, slim design scored better than some larger diameter models. Washers, hair curlers & foam ran close to some of the top names in the business.

Keep in mind that his research was about "add on moderators" and not on modifying an existing shroud. Although some of the principles should apply, I still found it hard to translate that information into something simple and usable.  My biggest take away was length in front of the barrel for baffels matters, and a number of the moderators on the market are close in results.

Thx, just that the symbol for a diode basically looks a "K".   

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

Edward

Some guys are adding baffles (cone style, or NP2 "K" baffle). The Crosman NP2 "K" baffle is monocore & fits inside the shroud. See "any US importers carrying this gun". It's about $3.00 each with $4.00 shipping. I got 4 baffles (for 4 guns) for less than $16.00.  The cones don't require any special modification. Some guys are drilling holes in the barrel support so that air can pass all the way down the shroud. Some are putting small holes in the shroud just in front of the breech.

My experience is that it does make a noticable difference. And in my opinion is backyard friendly. Not silent but noticably better. It takes the sharp bark out of the report. A moderator will do the same but adds length.

Use the search function and you will find all kinds of info.  The thread about moderators is on Air Gun Nation, written by Sto. It's an interresting read if you want to learn about moderators.

Thank you Mike
I will head to AGN and find Sto's thread on moderators.
With a little luck I might understand it!

Regarding the baffles.
Your info certainly ensures that I will give them a try
There are other parts needed from Crosman; and the baffles will get added to the order.
Of course I'll report back with impressions

Change of subject
Rather than hijack this thread I am going to ask you a question in this one
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=163480.0
It will be part of a reply to Kerry's (Backstop) post #17.

See you there
Ed

[tracker1955]

Thought I'd mention when I first got my Liberty I put an NP-2 baffle in it and yes it did quiet the bark, but it also affected the accuracy of my rifle so I removed it and the accuracy was back. There was no sign of clipping on the insert, just weird air flows that affected the accuracy. YMMV

[BackStop]

Here you go, starts at #494.   https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149431.msg1549126#msg1549126

Steve came up with drilling the first ring to allow air back into the rest of the shroud.

Ray, did you ever come to any conclusions about using these baffles in the Liberty/Freedom shrouds and were you able to do any testing using a decibel meter?

Thanks!

Kerry

[Stikkershokk]

I've wondered if porting the FRONT of the shroud would do anything - behind the barrel crown, just forward of that front support ring.

I guess it would only act like a muzzle break, sending the sound in a different direction.

[FuzzyGrub]

A different baffle design may be forthcoming from another GTA member.     If so, will test with the Liberty oem config with the vented shroud and Rod's AS.   Also, will try as replacement for the Mrod baffles in the shifted forward shroud. 

[superchikn]

Here you go, starts at #494.   https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149431.msg1549126#msg1549126

Steve came up with drilling the first ring to allow air back into the rest of the shroud.

Ray, did you ever come to any conclusions about using these baffles in the Liberty/Freedom shrouds and were you able to do any testing using a decibel meter?

Thanks!

Kerry

At the time I was using the NP2 baffle I was chasing accuracy issues.  I eventually figured out my barrel was bad.
If I remember correctly I did do some decibel testing and it was very similar to the results of various baffle stacks.  From the get go I had vented my shroud and barrel spacer, and the first ring of the core.
I "thought" it might have been affecting accuracy but as I said it was the bad barrel.  There was no evidence of clipping and I was paying much more attention at the time to getting consistent accuracy so when I went to a baffle stack I never retried the core. 

The long and the short is I have no evidence one way or the other, but I believe the sound reduction was comparable to other methods and I don't think I saw accuracy affected by it.

[Orion]

Here you go, starts at #494.   https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149431.msg1549126#msg1549126

Steve came up with drilling the first ring to allow air back into the rest of the shroud.

Ray, did you ever come to any conclusions about using these baffles in the Liberty/Freedom shrouds and were you able to do any testing using a decibel meter?

Thanks!

Kerry

At the time I was using the NP2 baffle I was chasing accuracy issues.  I eventually figured out my barrel was bad.
If I remember correctly I did do some decibel testing and it was very similar to the results of various baffle stacks.  From the get go I had vented my shroud and barrel spacer, and the first ring of the core.
I "thought" it might have been affecting accuracy but as I said it was the bad barrel.  There was no evidence of clipping and I was paying much more attention at the time to getting consistent accuracy so when I went to a baffle stack I never retried the core. 

The long and the short is I have no evidence one way or the other, but I believe the sound reduction was comparable to other methods and I don't think I saw accuracy affected by it.

I used the NP2 baffle and I can assure you 100% it creates accuracy problems, I used that baffle for a DIY moderator and while it quieted the gun the group at just 20 yard was a disaster. I would not recommend using it for the Liberty at least. 

[superchikn]

Thats interesting,  I have one in a homemade half shroud on my Crosman Summit Ranger (magnum breakbarrel) and it is shooting under half inch at 30 yds. 

I will definitely try it again in my Liberty.

[Hawkeye51]

My experience with the NP2's baffle has all been positive.

First of all, I did not compare POI, pre & post baffle. I installed the baffle & tuned for desired speed & pellet weight before I sighted in the gun.

Secondly, all guns were done in the same fashion, with the baffle modified to allow maximum flow back into the shroud and down to the breech, venting the shroud with 4 or 6 small holes. The barrel support was also drilled with several holes to allow maximum air passage.  The barrel was wrapped with felt under the vent holes.

Third, all guns were very similar in accuracy. Half inch 5 shot groups @30 yards was the norm.

Fourth, this was done to a total of 8 guns over a one year period. Six guns were Freedom 22 and two were Liberty 22.  I think there are several different ways to accomplish similar results in noise reduction, but this was cheap & easy for me.

I did like the looks of the 3-D printed air stripper and think a 3-D printed barrel support with holes already in it would be a good seller.

[Hawkeye51]

Some pics.

[superchikn]

Yup, Thats how I did it.
It does work, it is cheap and in most cases does not affect accuracy.

[FuzzyGrub]

A different baffle design may be forthcoming from another GTA member.     If so, will test with the Liberty oem config with the vented shroud and Rod's AS.   Also, will try as replacement for the Mrod baffles in the shifted forward shroud.

I received the pkg today from David (Rocker1) Thank-you sir.     He sent baffles in 20mm, 23mm, and 25mm OD's.   The design is unique in that it combines a baffle/air stripper with the common hair curler/felt style.  The 25mm are a little too large for the Liberty shroud, but the 23mm w/felt (scotch brite) should fit just fine.   I look forward to testing them in this coming week. 

[RDB]

Looks good! If you can, try felt from the fabric store. Seems to have more dampening effect than scotch bright. I've even used the foam from pellet tins and works really well. Look forward to your results.

[tkerrigan]

Regarding the picture with the device in the vise, I just cut off the outside of the barrier with side cutters instead of drilling holes.  Regards, Tom

[FuzzyGrub]

I'm pretty sure I have some black acoustic felt that is 1/8" thick.  If so, I could try that after.  It might block flow from the vent holes.  I'm sure there are enough pellet foams around.

[BackStop]

Well, I ordered 5 of the Trail NP2 baffles to play with.   I doubt I will use them in the shroud though.

My best results have come from an LDC added to the end of the shrouded barrel.

Yeah, it can get long, but I don't walk around in the woods with my AGs.  (smile)

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

Well, I ordered 5 of the Trail NP2 baffles to play with.   I doubt I will use them in the shroud though.

My best results have come from an LDC added to the end of the shrouded barrel.

Yeah, it can get long, but I don't walk around in the woods with my AGs.  (smile)

Well, Kelly
Between the two of us the good folks of Bloomfield NY must be wondering what's up with the baffles.
I ordered 4 on Friday.
Once in hand the intention is to compare them to Mike's  (Hawkeye 51) photo to see exactly how he modified them for use in the Freedoms/Libertys
It's time for me, also, to compare results in front of the muzzle to those inside the shroud
Ed

[BackStop]

Well, I ordered 5 of the Trail NP2 baffles to play with.   I doubt I will use them in the shroud though.

My best results have come from an LDC added to the end of the shrouded barrel.

Yeah, it can get long, but I don't walk around in the woods with my AGs.  (smile)

Well, Kelly
Between the two of us the good folks of Bloomfield NY must be wondering what's up with the baffles.
I ordered 4 on Friday.
Once in hand the intention is to compare them to Mike's  (Hawkeye 51) photo to see exactly how he modified them for use in the Freedoms/Libertys
It's time for me, also, to compare results in front of the muzzle to those inside the shroud
Ed

Did you use the VELOCITY-19 code?  (chuckle)

I ordered 5 because I am not sure how I might modify them and I have 3 AGs on which I will eventually have some sort of LDC.

So far though, my best (to my ears) version was my first.  No baffles and VERY simple "design".

Of course, that may be because of my tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss.