Just Bought ANOTHER Liberty for Parts ;- )

[Madd Hatter]

I really believe that the problem with the Poppet is the metal can is bottoming on the valve.

Isn't that only happening when they get pushed north of 40 ft.lbs. ? I don't recall reading of one leaking until the reg pressure was cranked way up.

When I bought mine from dairyboy it was all stock but was starting to leak about a 100 psi a day. All I did was trim the metal can back about the width of a dremel cutoff wheels thickness using my drill press to turn it while I cut and it hasn't leaked since and I've had the reg turned up as high as 1/4 turn CCW plus when I changed out the reg Bellevue washers out to ones I bought from McMaster carr (not recommended) the reg was putting out up in the 3000 psi range and still didn't leak. 

[Hawkeye51]

Robert

Did you change the Bellevue washers because of creep, or erratic pressures, or both? Why do you say, not recommended. What happened? Did you change back?

[RDB]

I really believe that the problem with the Poppet is the metal can is bottoming on the valve.

Isn't that only happening when they get pushed north of 40 ft.lbs. ? I don't recall reading of one leaking until the reg pressure was cranked way up.

When I bought mine from dairyboy it was all stock but was starting to leak about a 100 psi a day. All I did was trim the metal can back about the width of a dremel cutoff wheels thickness using my drill press to turn it while I cut and it hasn't leaked since and I've had the reg turned up as high as 1/4 turn CCW plus when I changed out the reg Bellevue washers out to ones I bought from McMaster carr (not recommended) the reg was putting out up in the 3000 psi range and still didn't leak.

Thanks Robert. Did you pull the poppet material before you made the cut?

Sorry about the bellvilles not working for you. Im the one who originally posted them up. Have been running them for a better part of 6 months now. The id od. and thickness is the same, but the height is taller. So you can't use your original setting as a reference point. They hold a tighter es for me. After setting for days, my first shot is no more than a few fps off from the rest. I did balance the hammer strike to the reg setting though.

[Wayne52]

When stacking bellevue washers sometimes you'll need more or less spacers to get the right tension once the regulator is assembled. I usually stick with the originals myself, polishing them a little will help sometimes.

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

My other wooden Liberty will be named "Timber" if she is shootable.

I will be taking her apart to measure O rings and a deep look to eliminate this Poppet issue that is a real problem and an Achilles heal for this gun. This problem needs to be resolved sooner then later because if Nova keeps producing them with this issue, major complaints will really hurt the Nova brand !

wll

[

I am worried that ATI is not repairing ANY of these AG's.  Freedom or Liberty.

From what I can figure out, they are simply selling off ALL the returns as "parts" guns.

Although, this does give a great deal for some, it worries me because I don't think that business model can continue forever.  (heavy sigh)

And it also makes me wonder if parts will be available in the long run?

b]Backstop[/b]
Have you considered this( hypothetical) option for their business model?
Working backwards from retail price of a Liberty, $300 (synth stock); then allowing for the 20% discount brings us down to $240 selling price
It is conceivable that in this marketplace a 100% markup  after all costs of purchase is the norm.
That brings us down to $120.
Sell non warrantied gun for $ 100 and the loss is minimal.
ATI's margins could be higher, unless they are being beat up by recent tariffs.
They might break even, or better.
It is certainly cheaper than throwing parts and labor $ at repair versus replacement

Before anyone picks this apart please understand the is a hypothetical argument based on NO knowledge of the industry.
That's why I can speak with such certainty!
Ed

[Hawkeye51]

Ed

A breakeven for ATI and no problems with warranty returns is a win, win for everybody.  I for one, hope they continue this policy.

[wll2506]

I really believe that the problem with the Poppet is the metal can is bottoming on the valve.

Isn't that only happening when they get pushed north of 40 ft.lbs. ? I don't recall reading of one leaking until the reg pressure was cranked way up.

When I bought mine from dairyboy it was all stock but was starting to leak about a 100 psi a day. All I did was trim the metal can back about the width of a dremel cutoff wheels thickness using my drill press to turn it while I cut and it hasn't leaked since and I've had the reg turned up as high as 1/4 turn CCW plus when I changed out the reg Bellevue washers out to ones I bought from McMaster carr (not recommended) the reg was putting out up in the 3000 psi range and still didn't leak.

This seems like a very good simple fix .. If my ideas don't work, I will definitely try this out. The can may be preventing the seal from working like it should, and the can could be causing all the trouble ?

I may be able to put the poppet arm in my Sherline lathe and trim off .030 so the soft poppet material can smash against the valve and stop leaking ? Hummmmm !!!

wll

[Madd Hatter]

I didn't take that much off. They were very thin cutoff wheels but don't think that would cause a problem.

[wll2506]

I didn't take that much off. They were very thin cutoff wheels but don't think that would cause a problem.

Robert,

Did you ever try the hammer springs you got from McMaster-Carr, and if so how did they work ... are they stiffer then the originals ?

wll

[wll2506]

Got back from a little outing this early mornings as it is going to be 107 where I'm at, I don't need to die on the desert floor and be pickings for the buzzards ;- )

Anyway got only two shots off as I was after Ground Squirrels and none to be found ..... So I took two shots at a rangefindered 42 yards, both shots about an inch to the left ... I think I was shooting from a canted angle, but the two shots (red circle) and about 3/8 of an inch apart. The rest of the wood was torn away by the pellet. I was aiming at the green circled area and the tree was leaning left, I should have kept my x hairs straight.



Liberty 1, as does Woodstock (my first wood stocked Liberty) shoots like this all day long. the groups are in a nickle no problem ---- at give or take 45 yards using JSB18.13gr pellets. When I do my part, these guns do theirs.  I have shot at targets at about this distance and had thought I had missed, walked up and saw my pellet marking in my aiming point ... I just could not see it in my scope. There are many shots that I don't even bother with as I KNOW it is going to be a smack down.

These guns are amazing !

wll

[Madd Hatter]

I didn't take that much off. They were very thin cutoff wheels but don't think that would cause a problem.

Robert,

Did you ever try the hammer springs you got from McMaster-Carr, and if so how did they work ... are they stiffer then the originals ?

wll

I haven't actually installed it in the rifle but it seemed like it would be too strong. When all of this moving business is over I'll be trying it in the rifle with the trigger installed. I still need to change my Liberty over to Duy's valve so will do it then.

[wll2506]

I didn't take that much off. They were very thin cutoff wheels but don't think that would cause a problem.

Robert,

Did you ever try the hammer springs you got from McMaster-Carr, and if so how did they work ... are they stiffer then the originals ?

wll

I haven't actually installed it in the rifle but it seemed like it would be too strong. When all of this moving business is over I'll be trying it in the rifle with the trigger installed. I still need to change my Liberty over to Duy's valve so will do it then.

Robert, thanks for the update :-)

wll

[wll2506]

This morning was out again with Liberty1. Took this shot as i was leaving for another hunting ground ... 42.5 yards away.. I was aiming at the bottom section of the cross between the bricks ... shot was perfect height and about 2 pellets to the right ... I have been shooting about 1/4"-3/8" right .. I made the adjustment when i left.

This gun never fails !



wll

[wll2506]

Timber (my second Wooden Liberty) arrives tomorrow.

I hoping she is a functional gun, but if not, I'm at the point the parts will be a welcome addition ;- )

If she has all the parts and can function she will be added to my hunting guns and a Discovery 4-16 AOE added, as I will have two wood stocked liberties and a synthetic stocked Liberty to take to the field, along with my Freedom  all in .22 cal........ Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

wll

[FuzzyGrub]

I will have two wood stocked liberties and a synthetic stocked Liberty to take to the field, all in .22 cal........ Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

wll

That's where I'm at with 22 Liberty's, but waiting for a 177 wood parts gun to become available, and will be done.   One of the 22's will be converted to 25 cal, this winter.   One 22 will be dedicated to AVS slugs, too.

[Madd Hatter]

Timber (my second Wooden Liberty) arrives tomorrow.

I hoping she is a functional gun, but if not, I'm at the point the parts will be a welcome addition ;- )

If she has all the parts and can function she will be added to my hunting guns and a Discovery 4-16 AOE added, as I will have two wood stocked liberties and a synthetic stocked Liberty to take to the field, along with my Freedom  all in .22 cal........ Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

wll

I hope so ya horder!!!

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

I will have two wood stocked liberties and a synthetic stocked Liberty to take to the field, all in .22 cal........ Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

wll

That's where I'm at with 22 Liberty's, but waiting for a 177 wood parts gun to become available, and will be done.   One of the 22's will be converted to 25 cal, this winter.   One 22 will be dedicated to AVS slugs, too.

Good morning FuzzyGrub
Curious to know how detailed the the Liberty 22 to 25 caliber conversion would be
Is there info addressing the topic somewhere in the forum?

Ed

[FuzzyGrub]

Good morning FuzzyGrub
Curious to know how detailed the the Liberty 22 to 25 caliber conversion would be
Is there info addressing the topic somewhere in the forum?
Ed

Not that I'm aware of.  I know Duy will be working on a Liberty 25 cal conversion soon.  I'm sure he will post some info.  My bet his will be more high-powered and slinging slugs.       Mine will be more for JSB 25 and 34g pellets.   When I do start it, will have a GTA thread going, and usually I detail it enough such that other DIYer's can follow.  ie like my Fortitude 25 cal conversion. 

[wll2506]

Timber (my second Wooden Liberty) arrives tomorrow.

I hoping she is a functional gun, but if not, I'm at the point the parts will be a welcome addition ;- )

If she has all the parts and can function she will be added to my hunting guns and a Discovery 4-16 AOE added, as I will have two wood stocked liberties and a synthetic stocked Liberty to take to the field, along with my Freedom  all in .22 cal........ Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

wll

Well my wooded parts gun came in (Timber).  The stock was in pretty darn good shape, I took the stock off and the trigger screws had been switched (he did a very good ob on the trigger, it is single stage and is very, very nice) one of the magazines had two 18.2 gr domed pellets in it so he had either AA English Domed or JSB's .. they were a bit lighter color so I think they were not JSB's. Gun had front and rear sights taken off but were included in a baggie and it had the SST. I think he may have moved the regulator so I moved it just one dot ccw.

I next took out the hammer spring, and that two had been worked on, it had 4 small washers and two of the three factory washers. .. I put my own washers in to my length.

The gun was on empty ... may have an air problem, we will see when I get home. looks like he MAY have tried to take air cylinder off, but not sure.... I'm hoping the poppet and poppet spring is still in place, but I think it is ... The gun was pretty well taken care of !

I will take her home tonight and fill her to about 2600 and wait ? If she holds air I will put on a Discovery scope, sight her in and use her next time out ;-  ) If she doesn't hold air , she will have a poppet operation when my lathe arrives ;-  )

wll

[wll2506]

Timber (my second Wooden Liberty) arrives tomorrow.

I hoping she is a functional gun, but if not, I'm at the point the parts will be a welcome addition ;- )

If she has all the parts and can function she will be added to my hunting guns and a Discovery 4-16 AOE added, as I will have two wood stocked liberties and a synthetic stocked Liberty to take to the field, along with my Freedom  all in .22 cal........ Stick a fork in me, I'm done !

wll

Well my wooded parts gun came in (Timber).  The stock was in pretty darn good shape, I took the stock off and the trigger screws had been switched (he did a very good ob on the trigger, it is single stage and is very, very nice) one of the magazines had two 18.2 gr domed pellets in it so he had either AA English Domed or JSB's .. they were a bit lighter color so I think they were not JSB's. Gun had front and rear sights taken off but were included in a baggie and it had the SST. I think he may have moved the regulator so I moved it just one dot ccw.

I next took out the hammer spring, and that two had been worked on, it had 4 small washers and two of the three factory washers. .. I put my own washers in to my length.

The gun was on empty ... may have an air problem, we will see when I get home. looks like he MAY have tried to take air cylinder off, but not sure.... I'm hoping the poppet and poppet spring is still in place, but I think it is ... The gun was pretty well taken care of !

I will take her home tonight and fill her to about 2600 and wait ? If she holds air I will put on a Discovery scope, sight her in and use her next time out ;-  ) If she doesn't hold air , she will have a poppet operation when my lathe arrives ;-  )

wll

Filled her up about a hour and a half ago to 3000psi ... so far it SEEMS to be hold .... tomorrow morning will be the tale of the tape for sure.

wll

Well, just checked again and she is leaking about 100psi every 1 1/2 hrs, I did not notice the first 100psi.

Since I don’t have my lathe yet, I will have a couple custom spacers made on our laser machine, put  in the back of the inside of the cup, I have .005 material I think and .010 material...when that is finished, I can redo the poppet that duy sent me, fit one of the others and get these guns running.

Darn :-(

wll